Smoked Shake 'N Bake at COTA yesterday....
#31
Drifting
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Once you get on some sticky shoes, you'll be right there.
You know, the short shifting is something I noticed while watching the first supercup race at F1 when the track opened. At first I was not understanding. The lead drivers were consistently upshifting twice in a row coming down the hill and entering 16. Turns out you can stay flat footed (well nearly if you ate your Wheaties that day) from 1 all the way to 4 if you do this. You can't do this in 3rd - because a) it's too much torque and engine brake to modulate, and b) you run out of revs and have to switch to 4th anyways while the car is laterally loaded, again - not good.
You know, the short shifting is something I noticed while watching the first supercup race at F1 when the track opened. At first I was not understanding. The lead drivers were consistently upshifting twice in a row coming down the hill and entering 16. Turns out you can stay flat footed (well nearly if you ate your Wheaties that day) from 1 all the way to 4 if you do this. You can't do this in 3rd - because a) it's too much torque and engine brake to modulate, and b) you run out of revs and have to switch to 4th anyways while the car is laterally loaded, again - not good.
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Last edited by jphughan; 03-15-2016 at 02:16 PM.
#32
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I've actually gone back and forth on this both entering T2 (3rd vs 4th) and through the carousel (upshift to 4th mid-corner or go to 4th before entering), in both the GT4 and eve a bit with the M3 when I had it. I didn't log any data this past weekend, but I feel much faster going through T2 in 3rd. I do indeed have to shift to 4th while moving over toward the right of the track before the bridge (where I'm not sideloaded enough for that to be a concern) and then right back to 3rd before T4. Is going flat in 4th actually faster than modulating 3rd? And in the carousel, my exit speed is ~4 MPH faster when I upshift mid-corner rather than taking the whole thing in 4th -- which I do at the widest point of my turn when I'm throttle steering to tuck in a little bit anyway,
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Must. Go. Back.
#33
Drifting
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These details make me realize I have no idea what I was doing. I was holding 3rd out of T1 all the way to T6 and just tossing the car to knock off speed. The only way I was making it through there was because of Daves (?) comments on track walk about apex the gantry bridge...![crying](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigcry.gif)
Must. Go. Back.
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Must. Go. Back.
Last edited by jphughan; 03-15-2016 at 02:40 PM.
#34
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"Well with the caveat that I haven't delved into left foot braking yet, is there still somewhere that I should actually be braking rather than just trailing off throttle to improve turn-in for the second apex of the carousel? The car feels pretty heavily sideloaded to me all through there, so it feels like applying any brake would bring the rear around, but I'm also still new to the GT4 and even this type of car (mid-engine, Cup 2 tires, aero grip, etc), so I'm definitely open to suggestions. Or is that just yanking my chain??"
I think your analysis is correct. While I am no expert, I have driven COTA quite a bit. the last time I raced there was two PCA races ago. I think entering the carousel as hard as you can in 3rd, and then instead of the easing the throttle, short shifting into 4th and then carry speed until easing again for the second apex is what most people do. FYI- my results from two years ago -Keith
I think your analysis is correct. While I am no expert, I have driven COTA quite a bit. the last time I raced there was two PCA races ago. I think entering the carousel as hard as you can in 3rd, and then instead of the easing the throttle, short shifting into 4th and then carry speed until easing again for the second apex is what most people do. FYI- my results from two years ago -Keith
#35
Drifting
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I think your analysis is correct. While I am no expert, I have driven COTA quite a bit. the last time I raced there was two PCA races ago. I think entering the carousel as hard as you can in 3rd, and then instead of the easing the throttle, short shifting into 4th and then carry speed until easing again for the second apex is what most people do. FYI- my results from two years ago -Keith
#37
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On R compound tires (MPSC2, Trofeo etc.) can a GT4 break 2:25? What about a 991 GT3 on the same tires? On equally skilled hands, how much slower is the GT4 vs. GT3?
Thanks for the great videos.
Thanks for the great videos.
#38
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The GT4 CS guys were in the 2:23-25 range in the front, and 2:30 in the back - on Pirelli DH tires, at the Pirelli Trophy Cup a couple weeks ago. A 25 on Cup2s or Trofeo R would be pretty exceptional. Mind you the Trophy cup is not a Pro series, so these are fast drivers, but not Porsche Factory guys, etc. I think an amazing time on Cup2s would be 28. Fastest 991 GT3 time I know of on Cup2s, though I don't have the data to know how, was in the 24s. Net is I think the GT3 is 3-4 seconds faster in mortal hands. Not sure about gods.
#39
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The GT4 CS guys were in the 2:23-25 range in the front, and 2:30 in the back - on Pirelli DH tires, at the Pirelli Trophy Cup a couple weeks ago. A 25 on Cup2s or Trofeo R would be pretty exceptional. Mind you the Trophy cup is not a Pro series, so these are fast drivers, but not Porsche Factory guys, etc. I think an amazing time on Cup2s would be 28. Fastest 991 GT3 time I know of on Cup2s, though I don't have the data to know how, was in the 24s. Net is I think the GT3 is 3-4 seconds faster in mortal hands. Not sure about gods.
#40
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If you care mostly about lap times, then a Viper ACR, M4 GTS, GTR are all/will be faster around COTA. Edit - than a GT4 or a GT3.
Last edited by ShakeNBake; 03-25-2016 at 05:58 PM.
#41
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#43
Drifting
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Having come from an M3 that I absolutely loved to a GT4, if you want a primarily track car, don't get an M3/4, except maybe an E46/E36 with the intent of modifying it fairly significantly. M3s (and now the M4) are I think still the reigning champ when you want to have ONE car that can hold up to track usage and still remain absolutely usable on a daily basis, and I think they balance performance, comfort/convenience, tech gadgetry, practicality, styling, price, and overall fun better than any other car out there, with the possible exception of a Golf R if you'll trade some track chops for extra practicality and lower cost. But a GT4 or GT3 (at least a 991) can be used as a DD if your needs there are fairly minimal, and they'll do much better on the track. And that's without even looking at Vettes, Vipers, GTRs, etc. as mentioned above.
#44
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Having come from an M3 that I absolutely loved to a GT4, if you want a primarily track car, don't get an M3/4. They are I think still the reigning champ when you want a car that can hold up to track usage and still remain absolutely usable on a daily basis, and I think they blend performance, comfort/convenience, tech gadgetry, practicality, styling, and price better than any other car out there (except maybe a Golf R), but a GT4 or GT3 (at least a 991) can be used as a DD if your needs are fairly minimal but will do much better on the track. And that's without even looking at Vettes, Vipers, etc.
#45
Drifting
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Yes, the GTS is definitely going to be a different animal, although it looks like it's going to be really hard to get (you have to submit an application for an allocation, 918 Spyder style) and its $150K price puts it right up with the GT3, and I don't know if that will be justified on the basis of lap times. I sure hope so, because if it's not, something as track-focused as the GTS can't say, "Yeah we don't have GT3 lap times, but at least we're more usable on the road." I wrote that post above mostly because the M3/4 with competition package was mentioned, and while the F8x generation competition package definitely looks to be fairly significant, I don't think it will change the equation enough to nullify what I said. The cars simply have different design goals.