When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Which of those cars will make a better driver out of you? In my experience, high horsepower cars make you think you're a better driver than you really are.
Yes, the GTS is definitely going to be a different animal, although it looks like it's going to be really hard to get (you have to submit an application for an allocation, 918 Spyder style) and its $150K price puts it right up with the GT3, and I don't know if that will be justified on the basis of lap times. I sure hope so, because if it's not, something as track-focused as the GTS can't say, "Yeah we don't have GT3 lap times, but at least we're more usable on the road." I wrote that post above mostly because the M3/4 with competition package was mentioned, and while the F8x generation competition package definitely looks to be fairly significant, I don't think it will change the equation enough to nullify what I said. The cars simply have different design goals.
Definitely agree with you on the regular M4/ZCP pack.
Which of those cars will make a better driver out of you? In my experience, high horsepower cars make you think you're a better driver than you really are.
Of the ones discussed here? My guess is the GT4. From what I've read (not speaking from firsthand experience on this one), the GT3 DEMANDS more of you if you want to be fast by the standards of that car, but it doesn't TEACH you as much, and some of what you do learn is only valid for 911s anyway. The Vette and Viper are both designed to dare you to go fast in them as opposed to encouraging you to go fast and helping you learn how to do that. The GTR absolutely enables bad driving technique by not punishing it, which is why it's a bad choice for novices. The M3 isn't a bad car to learn on and has a more "regular car" ethos to it, which might make what you learn more broadly applicable. But the best learning car of all IMHO is a Miata, probably the most underrated car ever made. I'm curious to hear others' answer to this question though!
I've heard many instructors say that they can teach someone to be a fast driver in x amount of time, but if that person is in a very high horsepower car, it will take 2x+ that amount of time.
Agree with Shake regarding lap time potentials. 28's on cup2 is pretty easy peasy with a good alignment. I have data of me driving a 991 gt3 on cup2 with one lap in the high 22's but it was 48 degrees out. Ambient temp has a huge effect on power and thus straight away speeds there.
Regarding the Carousel: it has four apexes. Enter in 3rd, miss the first apex, short shift to
4th approaching the second apex which you want to hit. Makes that turn in easier. You're still going uphill at this point. Briefly maintenance throttle and then roll to WOT approaching the third apex which you'll miss. At this point you're heading downhill and off camber. The fourth apex you'll hit without trying . The goal is to get the majority of your rotation done before heading downhill and off camber.
Agree with Shake regarding lap time potentials. 28's on cup2 is pretty easy peasy with a good alignment. I have data of me driving a 991 gt3 on cup2 with one lap in the high 22's but it was 48 degrees out. Ambient temp has a huge effect on power and thus straight away speeds there.
Regarding the Carousel: it has four apexes. Enter in 3rd, miss the first apex, short shift to
4th approaching the second apex which you want to hit. Makes that turn in easier. You're still going uphill at this point. Briefly maintenance throttle and then roll to WOT approaching the third apex which you'll miss. At this point you're heading downhill and off camber. The fourth apex you'll hit without trying . The goal is to get the majority of your rotation done before heading downhill and off camber.
Wish I was over the pond right now, som much fun to read about several GT4 get on same trackday. Anyway, did see ESC was mentioned and them are great those days. Still a solid driver will get Held up by ESC ap. 1 sec on short hockenheim ap. 2km track. In a new 991 carrera s that is. They might even calibrate ESC even bette on GT4 I guess. Mind you, all other cars tested like not Porsche, well them all Is big difference in lap time when ESC off vs on- Like AMG GT-s and other cars..
Sport auto test, thats Why I like em. They test all ****..In terms of cars. Not only nur laptimes. Test Is with ESC, without and sport esc
Brakes were great. I have SRF fluid and that's it. I do think a better track pad would be preferable as I am chewing up the stock pads. When I washed it this morning, black stuff was running down the driveway as I was hosing out the brake rotors. Of course, I think that's pretty normal after a hard track day.
On the 10:20 part, the Porsche RSR or whatever it was had completely dive bombed me so I was staying left and then he hits his brakes just off my 4 o'clock which is why I stayed off line after turn 10 and let him and Shake N' Bake go by before moving back off as the 675LT blew by.
On the spin, you can hear the engine zip up as the car loses it. I was back into the throttle after the turn and the traction just completely let go which caused the engine to rev up quickly which made it worse. Then the mid-engine (which I guess I'm not that used to) helped rotate the car around probably a bit more quickly than the ZR1 which I'm more used to along with probably some lightness in the rear-end due to a slight crest. Anyway, good lesson learned with no damage.
Need to work on holding the steering wheel more at 9 and 3 too. I shift my hands around sometimes to help hold myself in. I have the 18 ways and they aren't the best for hard track work.
I don't agree that it was a dive bomb, but I was looking for a point by........ by the way that is turn 11.
On the 10:20 part, the Porsche RSR or whatever it was had completely dive bombed me so I was staying left and then he hits his brakes just off my 4 o'clock which is why I stayed off line after turn 10 and let him and Shake N' Bake go by before moving back off as the 675LT blew by.
I don't agree that it was a dive bomb, but I was looking for a point by........ by the way that is turn 11.
I agree that wasn't anywhere near a dive bomb. IMHO Quikag got a little flustered by the approach of a faster car; didn't know who it was and self preservation kicked in. In the process he went offline and slowed everybody up. This continued through the turn where he again went offline to allow the pass..
IMHO this dual offline stuff did more damage than if he would've stayed online and gave the point by after completing the turn. It appears the cars behind him were prepared for an offline pass after receiving the point by after completion of the turn.
I think he was expecting a point by right after T10 because he had been riding Quickag since T9. I would have expected the same given that T10-T11 is a good, safe passing area. That move was more of a "Hey, I'm here, I don't think you saw me, or you would have let me pass already".
I think the challenge for a lot of drivers coming from massive HP cars is that while the GT4 is fast, it's not fast relative to 500HP+ cars on the straights, so it's easy for high HP cars it sneak up on you if you don't have the 360degree awareness honed from being passed a lot.
Agree that is a safe passing area. Hard to tell from the video excerp how close the cars are or were prior to that. If Texas RS was riding him through the Ss prior to that Quickag should've given the point by where you said instead of doing that double offline pre and post 11.
360 awareness should be honed regardless of the hp of the car. Its a basic safety concept in a DE. Due to the placement of the rear wing in the GT4, and the visibility limits imparted by it, it makes it even more imperative to hone that skill.
03-25-2016, 06:30 PM
