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The whole harness bar thing is really a delicate subject and the only reason i am chiming in is because the thread was started by a forum user AND it specifically makes mention to a design that we use.
At the end of the day we wanted to make a 4-point bar to anchor belts AND provide some rigidity to the existing unibody. I will always feel that ONLY something with 6-points welded to a chassis provides adequate rollover protection. Everyone has opinions about crush points, bends, etc but if you want to be safe you need 6 points and you need welding. The original cross bar even sat on top of the factory cross bar for added strength but we still never intended it to be considered something of a rollover protection device. The reasoning behind the whole "hockey stick" leg at the bottom was to have a leg that couldn't push through the soft aluminum of the 981/991 unibody should something happen EVEN THOUGH we don't consider the bar to be something of a rollover protection device. There wasn't a lot of room and people don't like carpet cutting so our first 981 bar was about as plug and play as could be for ease of install and harness bar mounting.
Even today, no matter how it may change peoples' opinion of the bar we make, i refuse to call it a roll bar. It's a hoop, a show bar, a harness bar...but that's it.
John, well said as I agree, we make harness bars in this case, not roll bars....
If you are looking for roll over protection, you should get a proper cage....
Spencer is a great guy at Speedsport Tuning.....he knows his stuff.
pvgolfer "Thanks in advance for posting any updates on this bar. I was ready to pull the trigger on a bar, but will now wait it out a bit longer. If you get a group buy going, I'm happy to help out parties in SoCal in organizing a combined shipping order."
pvgolfer, happy to show you are version roll bar in our GMG GT4 since you are local in SoCal and our shop is in Orange County.....
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Also interested, especially to see the shoulder harness angle with OEM LWBS with the seat at the lowest position.
Best way to determine that is to look and see where the harness cross bar is in relation to the latch hookup on the bulkhead. This is the easiest way to compare locations among the different bars. It seems to me that this one is pretty low and there is a pic with the LWB on their facebook page. I have reached out to them for more specifics including material and carpet cutouts and hope to have an update soon.
GMG and BGB are both great companies with great products that support Rennlist tremendously and I have purchased from them before and will again in the future. Not trying to create any competition, just share in another option.
Best way to determine that is to look and see where the harness cross bar is in relation to the latch hookup on the bulkhead. This is the easiest way to compare locations among the different bars. It seems to me that this one is pretty low and there is a pic with the LWB on their facebook page. I have reached out to them for more specifics including material and carpet cutouts and hope to have an update soon.
GMG and BGB are both great companies with great products that support Rennlist tremendously and I have purchased from them before and will again in the future. Not trying to create any competition, just share in another option.
This is our version without the seat installed.....
Going to throw this out there for comment as this topic keeps going round and round. If we all agree that there is little roll over safety associated with these bars and that a six point chassis weld is what is required for that safety element and we all agree that we want seats and belts that hold us into place for higher performance driving; why are we not just anchoring harness points into the firewall (as was seen in some previous photos) low enough to accommodate the right angle on the belts and in your buckets (or use LWBs) and the GMG slider bases for subs and be done?
"I'll fill in the blanks with our fab shop tomorrow... It's DOM, not chromoly. There's no weight advantage to offset the cost increase with this amount of metal by going to chromoly.
Rear strut mount caps need a semicircular cut to fit the bar. One slice in the carpet behind the plastic "waterfall" between the seats. That's it, by design. The slit in the carpet disappears visually because of placement. Take the bar out? Can't see it. Done on purpose that way.
Single bar shipping runs about $185. Pallet shipping drops that by 1/3 with 3 bars, closer to 1/2 with 5. 5 max per pallet. We won't pallet ship coated bars due to risk of damage to the powdercoat.
Satin black is standard price at $2799 for single piece orders. Bare, we are getting them at 2499 and satin black locally is around $250. The shiny bar cost just over $300, and the custom color match powders require a minimum quantity to mix the powder... Figure anything that is a unique porsche color will cost $400 additional... If three people have the same custom color, that cost splits three ways. The sub plates are $150 per side. I don't know that there's much room to move there, and they are required for installing harnesses to prevent drilling the floor and relocating all of the modules under the seats.
Shop install cost runs about $5k start to finish with parts in satin black and all labor included. Choice of harnesses adds anywhere from 750-1500 to that number, for the pair of driver and passenger sides.
I just ordered three more bars for committed GT4 customers. That order confirmation with eta to delivery should be in hand tomorrow morning. I will ask at that time what a volume order of ten will drop the cost to so we can pass along savings. If we bulk order 15, we can probably get some good price movement.
This bar has a very tight fit, again by design. It's not a one-person DIY. More like call a couple buddies and spend the weekend. We are billing 12 hours start to finish and it's been averaging 14-16 man hours with two people and a third helper when it comes time to attach the main hoop to the rear bracing.
This is NOT a "harness bar" and should not be compared in price, construction, or installation to a harness bar. A harness bar provides nothing but an anchor point to hold the harness in place for going head on into a wall. That, in our opinion, is not sufficient. "
GT3 player par excellence Lifetime Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 43,566
Likes: 5,898
From: san francisco
Originally Posted by BGB Motorsports
The whole harness bar thing is really a delicate subject and the only reason i am chiming in is because the thread was started by a forum user AND it specifically makes mention to a design that we use.
At the end of the day we wanted to make a 4-point bar to anchor belts AND provide some rigidity to the existing unibody. I will always feel that ONLY something with 6-points welded to a chassis provides adequate rollover protection. Everyone has opinions about crush points, bends, etc but if you want to be safe you need 6 points and you need welding. The original cross bar even sat on top of the factory cross bar for added strength but we still never intended it to be considered something of a rollover protection device. The reasoning behind the whole "hockey stick" leg at the bottom was to have a leg that couldn't push through the soft aluminum of the 981/991 unibody should something happen EVEN THOUGH we don't consider the bar to be something of a rollover protection device. There wasn't a lot of room and people don't like carpet cutting so our first 981 bar was about as plug and play as could be for ease of install and harness bar mounting.
Even today, no matter how it may change peoples' opinion of the bar we make, i refuse to call it a roll bar. It's a hoop, a show bar, a harness bar...but that's it.
LEGIT
Originally Posted by katmeho
Going to throw this out there for comment as this topic keeps going round and round. If we all agree that there is little roll over safety associated with these bars and that a six point chassis weld is what is required for that safety element and we all agree that we want seats and belts that hold us into place for higher performance driving; why are we not just anchoring harness points into the firewall (as was seen in some previous photos) low enough to accommodate the right angle on the belts and in your buckets (or use LWBs) and the GMG slider bases for subs and be done?
come to see my hippie car and you will understand what a ROLL BAR is.
but it will destroy your street car.
BGB, GMG, SST all have their version of bar and as they now call them harness bar, they are better than nothing. but as BGB pointed out they are not end all be all stuff like race cars. but you cannot drive race car on street
come to see my hippie car and you will understand what a ROLL BAR is.
but it will destroy your street car.
BGB, GMG, SST all have their version of bar and as they now call them harness bar, they are better than nothing. but as BGB pointed out they are not end all be all stuff like race cars. but you cannot drive race car on street
I get it. This is my race cars roll bar, I know what you mean.
But my question still stands, what's the point of all of this given the lack of protection. Why not just get what we really are asking for, which is proper harness anchors to keep us in place in the seats?
Why not just get what we really are asking for, which is proper harness anchors to keep us in place in the seats?
+1 I just want a simple harness bar. No attachment to rear shock towers or main hoop needed. And no carpet cutting for me because I do not need the seat all the way back, but I'm flexible on that point.
Quoting myself from way back in September '15 so you don't need to click the link above...
Originally Posted by Jenner
John I know $1k isn't realistic (certainly when factoring size/weight and shipping distance) but I think the issue lies between what is safe, and what is necessary.
Since this is not a half cage or roll cage at all, why is it so complicated/large and expensive for just a harness bar? It's just got to support 2 (or 4) shoulder belts right?
Way back in 2000 I lent my Audi TT to Stable Energies to develop a harness bar...and it was JUST that a harness BAR that cost $150 and could easily be shipped anywhere and easily installed/removed.
(Yes I know I too am cringing at the belts passing through the stock seat head rest...I was only 23...and HANS wasn't around at amateur levels until 2002+)
I don't know enough about the Cayman to know if a simple harness bar is feasible.
I'm certain whoever builds JUST a harness barnot a "harness bar that is trying to be a roll bar but isn't" is going to sell them like CRAZY. Build it and we will buy! If Speed Sport or any local shops need a GT4 to develop JUST a harness bar you can have mine until March/April!
Quoting myself from way back in September '15 so you don't need to click the link above...
I'm certain whoever builds JUST a harness barnot a "harness bar that is trying to be a roll bar but isn't" is going to sell them like CRAZY. Build it and we will buy! If Speed Sport or any local shops need a GT4 to develop JUST a harness bar you can have mine until March/April!
Thanks! I misread that post and thought since it was a picture (not a link to the product) it was suggesting what I was hoping someone makes. Now I understand!
Canyone explain to me the difference between 950/00 and 950/32?
Edit: Mike from RSS got back to me and it's a typo on the website. The 950/32 is powder-coated so that what the extra $100 gets you. It what I thought but I didn't want to assume without confirmation.
01-07-2016 | 04:18 PM
