718 GT4?
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,151
Likes: 173
From: West Vancouver
^That wont be the case unless they are also leaving the cost of the engine untouched. +$30k or so from the current GT4 engine. That car would be pretty close to the same price as a GT3. EDIT - I see youre lowering spec of valve train. Not sure what the benefit of bottom end GT3 without the top end would be - its in the higher RPMs where the curves are going to separate...and of course lower redline in GT4
Theyd have to lower the spec of all those expensive goodies in the engine to meet costs
Theyd have to lower the spec of all those expensive goodies in the engine to meet costs
Last edited by BioBanker; May 6, 2019 at 08:36 PM.
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 4,762
Likes: 1,501
That's true....for my 981 GT4 I wanted PTS but the dealer told me if I hold out for PTS I could end up with no allocation. Only 7 were allocated to the dealer.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 335
From: NYC <> Boston
Yeah, I've built and modified enough engines to understand that. Not always successfully!
What I'm saying is, assuming they've "detuned" the current 4.0 GT3 motor by restricting it's air intake and exhaust and artificially lowering it's redline the above would be possible.
Meaning they've left the crank, connecting rods, and pistons alone in the bottom end. This would be akin to the performance restrictions used to balance performance in race cars ie putting a restrictor on the intake of x mm so it can only produce y horsepower. They may also dumb down the heads with lesser components in the valve train and less lift/duration of the cams while having smaller and shorter runners. This could also be relatively easily dealt with which is basically what an X51 package is. I'm not saying it would be cheap but it's possible.
What I'm saying is, assuming they've "detuned" the current 4.0 GT3 motor by restricting it's air intake and exhaust and artificially lowering it's redline the above would be possible.
Meaning they've left the crank, connecting rods, and pistons alone in the bottom end. This would be akin to the performance restrictions used to balance performance in race cars ie putting a restrictor on the intake of x mm so it can only produce y horsepower. They may also dumb down the heads with lesser components in the valve train and less lift/duration of the cams while having smaller and shorter runners. This could also be relatively easily dealt with which is basically what an X51 package is. I'm not saying it would be cheap but it's possible.
I hate to kill the dream, there are a lot of reasons to want the new 718 GT4, but the idea that a few tweaks will give you a 9k rpm GT3 engine in a GT4 is not one of them. It's only possible in the same way dropping just about any engine that will physically fit is possible....
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,020
Likes: 55
From: Jupiter Island
You know now how the engine in the 981 GT4 is a detuned version of the 991.1 S motor? Restricted intake, smaller throttle body, less aggressive mapping of the ecu, etc.
385 hp as opposed to 400 or 435 for the X51 version.
They saved money by lightly revising an existing motor that has all the tooling in place as well as all of the vendor relationships for parts.
Now imagine they did the same thing with the current 4.0 from the GT3. Smaller throttle body, less effective intake, more restrictive exhaust, artificially low redline. They could easily have that engine making 420-450 hp and considering it is the only atmospheric arrow in their quiver, cheaper than making a new engine.
Now imagine you bought an intake, throttle body, exhaust, and an aggressive tune for that new car.......
As I said, doubt it will happen but a guy can dream.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 100
Likes: 8
Rennlist Member
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 9,127
Likes: 1,649
In the EU there is already talk about dealers having been told the # they get and when it starts. This member is in SA, not the US. Therefore different rules might apply. Or his dealer is playing a guessing game based on past history allocations.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 3,464
Likes: 311
From: Midtown Atlanta
No, that’s actually the opposite of what I’m saying. Obviously the issue is on my end as I don’t want to write 14 paragraphs on an Internet forum so let me try this another way:
You know now how the engine in the 981 GT4 is a detuned version of the 991.1 S motor? Restricted intake, smaller throttle body, less aggressive mapping of the ecu, etc.
385 hp as opposed to 400 or 435 for the X51 version.
They saved money by lightly revising an existing motor that has all the tooling in place as well as all of the vendor relationships for parts.
Now imagine they did the same thing with the current 4.0 from the GT3. Smaller throttle body, less effective intake, more restrictive exhaust, artificially low redline. They could easily have that engine making 420-450 hp and considering it is the only atmospheric arrow in their quiver, cheaper than making a new engine.
Now imagine you bought an intake, throttle body, exhaust, and an aggressive tune for that new car.......
As I said, doubt it will happen but a guy can dream.
You know now how the engine in the 981 GT4 is a detuned version of the 991.1 S motor? Restricted intake, smaller throttle body, less aggressive mapping of the ecu, etc.
385 hp as opposed to 400 or 435 for the X51 version.
They saved money by lightly revising an existing motor that has all the tooling in place as well as all of the vendor relationships for parts.
Now imagine they did the same thing with the current 4.0 from the GT3. Smaller throttle body, less effective intake, more restrictive exhaust, artificially low redline. They could easily have that engine making 420-450 hp and considering it is the only atmospheric arrow in their quiver, cheaper than making a new engine.
Now imagine you bought an intake, throttle body, exhaust, and an aggressive tune for that new car.......
As I said, doubt it will happen but a guy can dream.
1) keep a performance boundary between the two cars so that GT3 remains top dog on track, and
2) as Biobanker alluded to above, keep the price of GT4 substantially lower than GT3, just as Cayman is substantially lower than Carrera.
If (1) were the only goal, all that you say would be a real possibility. "We've already got tons of these GT3 4.0 liter motors, let's use them on the GT4 only restrict the airflow some and keep them down about 80hp from GT3". But given (2) has to remain in place or else you have two GT cars competing head-to-head pricewise in your lineup and no sub-100k entry level GT car, then there's no way they'd build an expensive high-titanium-content motor and then backwards engineer it to be less efficient. Not when they could far more cheaply just build a less-exotic (read: less-costly) motor in the first place and not need to restrict it at all.
Racer
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 281
Likes: 89
From: Flanders EU
Just speculating on my part... Let's assume a GT4 RS (with PDK) will be made available next year or so. A friend of a friend told me that he knows "for sure" this will happen @ a price of about 120k€. Such GT4 RS would have the GT3 engine, maybe slightly detuned to about 475hp.
Now, wouldn't it make more sense to use a simplified version (not that I am knowledgeable about engines, but deleting the expensive parts that let it rev to 9k) of the 4.0 GT3 to make a standard GT4 with 420hp vs using the old 3,8 from the new ClubSport?
Now, wouldn't it make more sense to use a simplified version (not that I am knowledgeable about engines, but deleting the expensive parts that let it rev to 9k) of the 4.0 GT3 to make a standard GT4 with 420hp vs using the old 3,8 from the new ClubSport?