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It's the contrast between the speculators and enthusiasts. Enthusiasts sometimes can't afford the car they otherwise would be able to because of this depreciation curve. And by depreciation, I mean rampant ADM. It may be a stretch to come up with 20k + downpayment versus just the downpayment. At least, that's how I see it. As a result, if you paid ADM, you will want to make sure you aren't upside down and all of a sudden out 40k or more. Similarly, no one really wants to see their car worth nothing after 5 years, enjoyment aside. I would never buy a Mercedes for this same reason. I'm not in the business of throwing money away when it comes time to sell. For something like a Porsche or a true sportscar, people tend to keep them longer and so the argument can be amortized into "smiles per gallon". Coupled with lots of talk about "oh well you can just get the car and drive it for the cost of tires and gas", you can see why people stretch their budgets and have a massive desire to not have their cars lose money.
Some see this as "well you can't afford it if that's your mindset". I'm probably in that camp since that's how we got into the recession in the first place, even though the years since have been great for those who could afford to make them great. I'm also in the camp of you should drive your cars whenever you can or feel like it instead of stick them in a garage and take them out to keep the tires from rotting.
For BMW, the "young kids will rice their cars out with ebay parts and make me look bad in my overpriced M3CS or <insert automatic M vert>". Coupled with the general affordability of older cars, it's the back in my day or get off my lawn approach. Look down upon them because they bought a BMW and are using crap parts because they don't want to spend $4000 on an exhaust and therefore shouldn't be buying the car since it holds a certain class. The Camry of the luxury car market, that is. Disclaimer: I have an M2.
Also, like you mentioned, everyone likes to measure their gentlemen's sausage against others to see if their link is just a bit more satisfying. I even get this from car "friends" who constantly compare their 0-60 times in their base v8 challenger automatic to my M2. We will never drag race, nor can I shift that fast or will be that abusive so why bother?
All valid points and I kind of agree with what you said about BMW.
Was just pointing out that there are a lot of threads around here where comments regarding the "ability to afford" keeps coming up. The funny thing is that those comments do not really offer much in terms of useful information and most of us do not really care about whether some random person on the internet can/cannot afford a particular car or not.
These along with value/depreciation related threads/comments have got to be one of the most mind numbing things to read.
People who own BMWs already have the reputation that you mentioned and a Porshce dealership did have the following advertisement:
Wing or no wing, my GT4 should be delivered around Christmas as my dealer tells me they get 7 cars with build slots in sept (1) okt (1) nov (5) and delivery the next month.
Originally Posted by jmartpr
Hmmm...your dealer already have allocation for the 718 GT4?
The sales person (I am in Belgium) showed me a schedule with the numbers for the months sep, okt and nov. It's no secret that the 718 GT4 will be built as a 2020 model hence first builds should be in August, no? Due to high taxes for cars with big CO2 figures (and rising), demand for GT Porsches is slow here in Belgium. But I am probably not first on the list. They will confirm, but I reckon a November build, delivery December. Dealer is owned by importer d'Ieteren, BTW.
Configuration is no later than May. Had to wire 10000€ for the privilege...
Oh, unofficial: price is expected to rise with 8000€. 981 GT4 was 88k€. We pay sticker price, no premiums allowed in EU. Though some try to charge "service" cost or something.
I have no reason to doubt they are genuine in the allocation numbers. They will sell all 7 for sure, but I could not risk to wait until after Geneva before committing myself! Car will be awesome with that engine!!!
I agree with most of the points that @Gatte and @blackholescion are making. The irony of being overly concerned with depreciation on a Porsche appreciation forum is not lost on me. I brought it (718 impact on previous gen GT4s) up for the sake of thoughts and conversation, and the input of a knowledgeable group of people.
Also agreed with @VLJ that everyone should probably care somewhat about what things are worth, it's just basic financial responsibility.
And fwiw, in my opinion the "get off my lawn" types can damage a brand just as much as the kids who rice the M3s, if not more so.
As I said earlier in my post, I dont think about depreciation when I buy a sports car.
Being concerned about depreciation would clearly conflict with my enjoyment and passion for the car to be DRIVEN.
As someone said above, you cant have both.
You indicated that you "had" a GT4.
How long did you own it?
How many miles did you put on it?
Did you sell it because you were afraid of a steep decline?
If so, what did you perceive to be the catalyst of a steep decline in value?
Just curious.
I had it for two years and put just shy of 10K miles on it, I drove it whenever I felt like it without worrying about the miles. I was wanting to try a different car but honestly the more I read on this thread about the new car being NA the more I started thinking "probably better to sell now than later". There's probably a steep decline coming, so why wait until that happens if I'm going to part with the car anyway?
As I said earlier in my post, I dont think about depreciation when I buy a sports car.
Being concerned about depreciation would clearly conflict with my enjoyment and passion for the car to be DRIVEN.
As someone said above, you cant have both.
I respectfully disagree. Depreciation is a factor for me when purchasing sports cars. I love cars and want to continually experience different models. So I tend to buy what I want, drive the hell out of it, put as many miles as I want, and then when I decide it's time to enjoy something new, I sell. I want to minimize the amount of money lost each time I do that. That's why I tend to purchase used low mileage examples that already had their initial depreciation, or new slow depreciating models. I purchased a 2013 Viper with 2k miles on it a couple years ago that now has 17k miles on it. I am considering selling it, and the hit would be a few thousand. Bought a cayman gts, put 10k miles on it in a year, and sold it for 3k less. Same with the GT350R I just sold to a friend. I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking about minimizing depreciation. It shouldn't be your main factor in a purchase but no reason to throw money away if you don't have to.
I respectfully disagree. Depreciation is a factor for me when purchasing sports cars. I love cars and want to continually experience different models. So I tend to buy what I want, drive the hell out of it, put as many miles as I want, and then when I decide it's time to enjoy something new, I sell. I want to minimize the amount of money lost each time I do that. That's why I tend to purchase used low mileage examples that already had their initial depreciation, or new slow depreciating models. I purchased a 2013 Viper with 2k miles on it a couple years ago that now has 17k miles on it. I am considering selling it, and the hit would be a few thousand. Bought a cayman gts, put 10k miles on it in a year, and sold it for 3k less. Same with the GT350R I just sold to a friend. I don't think there is anything wrong with thinking about minimizing depreciation. It shouldn't be your main factor in a purchase but no reason to throw money away if you don't have to.
Some would say you can't afford it. I say you sound financially responsible.
Some would say you can't afford it. I say you sound financially responsible.
I think if you worry a lot about the money lost to depreciation then you might not be able to afford it. But making a conscious decision to minimize your loss when you can, is just sound financial planning to me...and you.
I think if you worry a lot about the money lost to depreciation then you might not be able to afford it. But making a conscious decision to minimize your loss when you can, is just sound financial planning to me...and you.
We have something called BIV in Belgium. It's a tax one pays when registering a car to one's name (or company). New or used, doesn't matter, though it gets cheaper somewhat every year the car is older. For electric cars, it's obviously not much or even free. For a 718 GT4 however its something like11k€... So that amount is lost when you sell the car. So it's not an option to get another performance car every single year!
This will be the first and last GT car I get. In 4 years, the 718 will be replaced with a EV anyway and petrol cars could be very restricted to be used after 2030. Hence I am going to use this thing and enjoy every kilometer in it!
I had it for two years and put just shy of 10K miles on it, I drove it whenever I felt like it without worrying about the miles. I was wanting to try a different car but honestly the more I read on this thread about the new car being NA the more I started thinking "probably better to sell now than later". There's probably a steep decline coming, so why wait until that happens if I'm going to part with the car anyway?
That's cool.
But as someone that has been trading/investing in the stock market since 1980, I would suggest that the "decline" (or much of it) is already in the current used car market prices.
Markets are discounting machines. They take into consideration all available information and present and potential future events.
In other words, people have been "unloading" their GT4's in anticipation of the new 781 for quite some time now.
All valid points and I kind of agree with what you said about BMW.
Was just pointing out that there are a lot of threads around here where comments regarding the "ability to afford" keeps coming up. The funny thing is that those comments do not really offer much in terms of useful information and most of us do not really care about whether some random person on the internet can/cannot afford a particular car or not.
These along with value/depreciation related threads/comments have got to be one of the most mind numbing things to read.
People who own BMWs already have the reputation that you mentioned and a Porshce dealership did have the following advertisement:
But as someone that has been trading/investing in the stock market since 1980, I would suggest that the "decline" (or much of it) is already in the current used car market prices.
Markets are discounting machines. They take into consideration all available information and present and potential future events.
In other words, people have been "unloading" their GT4's in anticipation of the new 781 for quite some time now.
Some cars decline at different rates and at different times, surely you're willing to account for that. The truth is if you bought a GT4 new or almost new at about MSRP and drove it for 18 months you would be able to recoup most of your purchase price. By waiting 24 months (spoiler: I waited too long) I lost a little bit. By waiting until the new one is announced I predict I'd lose a lot more. So why not time it to keep more of my money in my pocket? That's just called paying attention.
Drawing a parallel between cars and the stock market is silly, car's shouldn't be viewed as investments and with few exceptions they aren't traded as commodities. The best one could do is time it right to minimize their losses.
