joejenie

If you are doing HPDE and not racing, get a used 718CS instead. Will save yourself a bunch of money and it will be good enough.

ForeverCar

Good to know, I hadn’t considered that as much. This helps me think through this more and likely means I shouldn’t get seduced by the Cup car if that happens to be available sooner as Clubsport is a better match to what I’m looking for. Thanks!

ForeverCar

Thanks for sharing these very helpful direct observations! I’m comfortable with what you are describing and those do fit “low” maintenance from my perspective.

ForeverCar

Thank you! Exactly the sort of nuances that I’m hoping to get from experts here.

There are factors that I didn’t considered before. Now that I know and think more about it, even if the GT3 Cup is equally “low” maintenance, it’s a bit too much car for my use case.

Clubsport is likely the sweet spot. Granted “mellow might not be the best way to describe it. A better way to convey it is probably harmony between car’s natural pace, driver’s capabilities, and safety margin. My plan is arriving at a friendly chassis setup, consistent & long lasting tires matched to track conditions (not necessarily looking for the quickest tires), refresh my own driving skills to lap at a healthy pace (fast enough to be exciting and well matched to the car with good safety margin).

How does the Clubsport behave on tires like Hoosiers? Is that setup a “bad” idea (meaning the chassis cannot be tuned to work well with the tires)? Within the operating envelope, I’m looking for ways to “slow” the car down if that makes sense.

ForeverCar

Totally makes sense. I’m optimizing for something slightly different though. The high rpm emotional aspect is worth it to me. Agree that a used 718CS is much cheaper and does the job just fine.

blomman

I have a clubsport, a 964rs and a 914 with a 6.
The clubsport is fun if you make hot laps, you have to record laptimes, otherwise for me its meaningless.
If you want To have fun buy a 914 with a 6. Best there is

zedcat

What does "long lasting tires" mean to you? There should be a couple of tire threads here if you search. It's speculation though at this point for an RS Clubsport. That said I recall some 981 GT4 owners running 200TW DOT tires as required by endurance racing series rules. The most common tire I see used is the Pirelli DH on 981 and 718. I ran a set of R7 for the heck of it. I put about 12 heat cycles in them. They were pretty terrible at the end. To be fair I didn't do an initial cycle and then let them sit as recommended by Hoosier. At the time they were not a lot cheaper than slicks.

ForeverCar

While I won’t be chasing the quickest lap times, I do plan on recording lap times. My goal is “good enough” lap times with very low variance!

ForeverCar

I would consider 10 heat cycles to be long lasting. A progressive and consistent tires are more important to me than outright performance. If the chassis can be adjusted to work well with 200 TW tires, I might try those too!

I will go study some of the threads on tires. Thanks.

ProCoach

I think tires are perhaps the most important single component to lap times.

I know the driver's comfort and confidence level in any car is the single key performance indicator predicating the level of commitment required to improve.

I also believe that the adoption of sub-par tires, or tires that the car (especially a homologated package, like any of the factory built GT3 and GT4 cars) has not been SPECIFICALLY designed around, not only takes away from the experience and performance but also from the confidence the driver NEEDS in order to push incrementally and gain that performance.

While I understand the 200 TW tires are required for some budget endurance series the new cars are eligible for, to get the most benefit out of them (and to reduce the potential for thermally induced failure), significant changes will be needed to the shocks, springs, bars and alignment settings.

A GT4 car is a "package," designed and built by the manufacturer to compete against other cars worldwide built to the same homologated standard.

When the 981 GT4 ClubSport was introduced and PCA Club Racing mandated the use of the Pirelli DH in Trophy East in 2016, after the car had been designed around, optimized for and delivered with Michelins (with a lower spring rate by some margin than the Pirellis), early testing and some of the early events had a high casualty rate due to how difficult it was to keep the rear under the car. So much so, two softer spring rates were immediately introduced and implemented by the series to try and tame the car, which had shown NO signs of issues testing on the Michelins.

All I can tell you is that the car, especially this one, is a "system," a "package" that works harmoniously together. Change the tires to Pirelli DH (less so), Hoosier R7 (more so) or 200 TW (for SURE), especially without a concerted effort by a knowledgeable engineer or engineers with substantial data, is just compromising that package, inhibiting the balance and consistency of the package, damaging the performance of the package as well as hurting your investment and return.

Most drivers won't push hard enough for the car to push back, especially on DH's, but when it does, you better be ready. Black, round and rubber are not all the same.

The four contact patches are your only connection with Mother Earth...

ForeverCar

This is incredibly valuable! Thank you! I sort of suspected running different tires is likely “not a good idea”.

My current thinking is, I will run the tires the car is designed for.

ProCoach

I can only relate my experience working with nearly a hundred ClubSport drivers and other GT3 and GT4 cars.

One of the hardest things to get a handle on is the extreme difference in performance between "cold" slicks and those same tires in the proper operating range.

Driving "cold" slicks (Michelin S8M, N2, N3, Hankook F200 or Pirelli DH, for example) can be diabolical, coming from R7's or even street tires. The accelerative and braking traction, not to mention the turning capability, is severely compromised when below 140 degrees, so much so, you could easily be surprised by the lack of grip turning into the first corner after leaving the pit lane exit. Many less experienced drivers are spooked by the experience and don't trust these tires, nor can they easily bring themselves to wail on them hard enough to get temperature into them QUICKLY, knowing that the car will be sliding around at insanely low and then only medium speeds. So, they go back to the known quantity, something like the R7 or PSC2, which is not what these cars are designed for.

There's the rub. To get them working, aggressive acceleration and braking are needed. Side to side only knocks debris off the tread face. Fore/aft moves the belts in the carcass internally to build temperature (and as a result, pressure) up quickly, evenly and from the inside out to the tread face. Also, heating up the brakes and wheels can help bring temps and pressures up. When I listen to pros leaving pit lane in a car on slicks, there's no mercy. But they know the tires will be sub-bar until they get up to temp, generally between 170-210 degrees F. When done right, they can BE at temperature, from 70 degrees leaving the pits, to 165-170 degrees in one lap on a longer, faster course. Then, only a few more corners and they're right in the window.

I do think people don't read the instructions or speak to a lot of the more experienced dealers for specific information on the use and care enough. Proper break-in of slick tires can double or even triple their useful life. Also, the number one way to tell that they are past their prime is a LOSS OF BALANCE on one end of the car, not a global, gradual loss of grip, the latter much harder to evaluate and quantify.

Have fun, all of these factory built cars are simply marvelous tools to hone your craft!

TRACKD

I will chime in with my 2 cents, for whatever it is worth.

I have been running a 2016 GT3RS at track days for the last year. Best lap times include consistent 2:13s at Sebring, 1:57s at VIR, and 2:02s at the Glen (so much more time to find, especially at the Glen) on Hankook slicks F200. I want to go racing so my best option is a 981 CS. I rented one for half of a day at Sebring and my mind was blown. I did not want to like the CS for so many reasons; its not a 911, its not as "fast as the RS", etc. Well in my second session in the car, I did a 2:14 at Sebring on Hankook slicks F200, and again, so much more time to find with just seat time, let alone a coach. The lack of straight line speed in the CS is more than made up for by its cornering abilities. And then there are the sensations; the rawness of a purpose built race car. No sound deadening material, carpet, etc. Mechanical brakes and no rubber bushings will give you all the feedback you need to go faster. What an experience. Needless to say, my CS is in transport now.

ProCoach

Where is the "love" button?

Awesome post.

ForeverCar

Does the Clubsport come with in cockpit tire temperature readings? Or is it a go by feel thing?