FergusH

Does anyone - Peter, ShakeNBake? - have some sample vbo files that they'd be willing to share with me? My car's still in the shop so I can't generate my own files right now.

What I'm looking for is a vbo file(s) that includes CAN data from a GT4 and records things like full lock-to-lock steering wheel turns, full throttle and full brake. With that, I think I should be able to figure what what the value limits are and make a scene file.

I know I could just buy ShakeNBake's scene file but I'm a geek and I'd like to make my own. I'm also jet lagged from a recent trip so have lots of spare time around 2 am each morning!

ProCoach

FergusH, I love you, but...

The person that has done the lion's share of the GT4 CAN development work is SNB. I can appreciate your desire to save time and reverse engineer an existing scene via data recorded by that scene, but that's cheating.

What I would do if I were you is to buy his scene, LEARN from that template and make changes on it to suit your desires.. That's what I did.

Or... do what I do when building a scene. The .ref files have the proper values! THAT'S why they're vehicle specific!

Get the .ref file for the car you're logging from (which I believe you have gotten from Mark, Bryan or Lucie, it'll be on the site soon), plug it in an existing scene and add an arbitrary range (like -180 to 180) for any additional elements that the .ref file has channels for, in this case, the steering.

Then test and adjust as necessary.

Sorry, I don't have CAN data logged files from an HD2 anyway, because it's not that important for my work.

FergusH

Cheating?! I'm slightly offended! Or I slightly misunderstand how this works. Or you slightly misunderstand my questions. All three?

"... reverse engineer an existing scene via data recorded by that scene"

I think this is what I'm confused about: are you saying that using a scene file affects how a .vbo data file is recorded? I thought the values in a vbo file would be the same regardless of what scene file is being using. I'm just looking for a vbo file that's got CAN values in it. I assume that's how it works: the CAN data gets added directly to the .vbo file. If was was making, for example, a steering angle gauge in a new scene file, I'd need to have a vbo files with steering data from CAN, then I'd need to find the min and max values in the .vbo file and make those the min and max values on the gauge in the Vbox app.

I definitely *don't* want to reverse engineer someone else's work. No big deal: I can wait a few days and generate my own vbo files.

ProCoach

Exactly. The .vbo with CAN data MUST be generated by a loaded scene telling the HD2 how to TRANSLATE, range and display the CAN data from that SPECIFIC car's protocol.

Unless the .ref is loaded into the scene and loaded onto the machine with the correct channel assignments, the produced .vbo will not have the CAN data on it.

No need for you to enter ranges or values of any kind except for the elements you choose to put in the scene, the CAN channels are fixed.

I have no doubt you are very capable of building your own scene, loading it on your HD2, recording the .vbo and troubleshooting what works and what does not. But I told you in the beginning, the development of working scenes with the proper .ref database, template and channel assignments is NOT easy.

There is plenty of documentation on the RL website and I can still answer questions for you as a customer of the hardware, but please don't ask me for the product of work that the developer (at my urging and his product I myself have purchased) is asking a small contribution for. That scene is tested, working and is a turn-key solution for all with GT4's who use this system.

You are the cheeky one, asking for that before you have come to understand how the scene creation effort works!

We're all good, and if you want to share your creation with the HD2 community, I will sing your praises and make sure you get attribution!

FergusH

Ok, I misunderstood.

I didn't realize that a .vbo file is affected by the scene file. I have read most of the documentation on the Racelogic site and I didn't see a specific mention of that. I thought that CAN data being in the vbo was just dependent upon the physical connection and nothing else. Or, put another way, you'd get CAN data in the vbo file even using the generic scene. If I understand correctly, you're saying that CAN data comes from the car, into the HD2, then - based upon how the scene file is configured - gets written to the vbo.

I am definitely *NOT* asking for any product that someone else has made. Also, I want to be clear why I'm not just paying for the scene file. I'd like to build a simple scene file, with basic CAN data available, then give it away. It would be a free, bare-bones alternative to ShakeNBake's scene. Until I finish that, I don't want to look at his scene file because that *would* be cheating...and now that you've explained it, I wouldn't want to look at a vbo file either.

ProCoach

Perhaps cheating is too strong a word. We are on the same team here, but I can assure you to do the artwork and fettle the CAN assignments as SNB has done is worth every penny!

ProCoach

I'd recommend you build several scenes now, using the templates in Setup and the GT4 .ref (I can send that to you if you don't have it), then save each, load all to the card and try them!

FergusH

I'm not disputing that the scene is worth every penny - it looked like a huge amount of work to build and test - and since I work for a software company, I'm all about people getting paid for what they build.

I don't think it would be fair for me to buy it, make changes to the graphics (i.e., convert them to using the generic Racelogic gauges and bars) but leave the CAN settings as they are, then give away a new scene file based on ShakeNBake's work.

Personally, I think it would be very good to consult with ShakeNBake and think about doing this:

Option 1: $50 fully developed scene file: cool GT4 graphics & CAN settings. Most people will probably just go for that since it's 100% plug-n-play.

Option 2: A free version of that same scene that doesn't have any custom graphics but just uses the correct CAN setup.

If I understand correctly, it's still work to do option 2: with the .ref installed, you still need to build a scene, then go test the values; it's not plug and play.

Option 2 is appealing to people who don't care about the cool graphics: they just want to take a vbo file, the associated video file, and view them in Circuit Tools. Now you've explained it to me, I realize that the CAN data doesn't exist in the vbo without the scene file, so you actually need a workable CAN scene to use Circuit Tools - assuming you care about brake pressure, throttle position and steering angle, which I definitely do.

Let me know what you guys think. I'm going to do my version of option two regardless but it would be more fun collaborating.

ShakeNBake

Option 2 is outlined in a new thread I started last night. It's pretty trivial to get a can database hooked up. A majority of the CAN channels you get are literal - in that they translate exactly into what you think they are. (Brake/throttle are 0-100%) The only one that is a PITA is steering, it's in degrees, but you need the direction flag (0/1) to make a math channel to get something you can use in a gauge or a graph to represent steering. If you are tinkering, just make something, put it in the car, drive around the block with your iphone streaming the video back to you. it'll be a couple round trips of trial and error.

To collect data, you just need the CAN channels registered in the scene, you don't even need gauges that use them - but if you want real-time feedback while you are ghost riding around, then you'd want some way to see it in the iphone preview. Cheers and have fun.

FergusH

Ha, that's great timing! I just got off the phone with Racelogic and they said the same thing about CAN: the ref file provides the mappings for you; you just have to assign CAN to an element and 99% of the work is done. They also said steering was trickier

I'm trying out a bar for steering - well, two bars: horizontal, side-by-side. Hopefully I'll get my car back today and can go play around and figure out what the actual minimum and maximum steering angles are.

That's a great tip on CAN channels not needing to be on a gauge to be recorded to the .vbo file. I suppose that's a good way to get the correct steering angle data: make a scene with no gauges but CAN enabled, manually start recording while sitting in your car in the garage and turn the wheel full left, center, then full right.

Thanks again for all your work on this.

ProCoach

That's what we do with CAN test files when I am collecting vehicle info to sent to Racelogic to develop .ref files for particular vehicles. It works quite well.

Texas RS

Fergus,

I found that -135 to 135 degrees is plenty of steering angle for the track. Let me know if you have difficulty getting the steering bar to work properly and I will share an approach that has worked for us. I can also share an approach to calculate HP so you can track if there is a shift in your engine performance.

FergusH

I'd love to hear how you got a steering bar to work and I would also be interested in your power calculation.

I did get the steering bar mostly working using a Maths Channel. However, I think there's a bug in one of the horizontal bars. I sent Racelogic some test files:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/xf6qxt15l...0wbvZq1Ra?dl=0

ProCoach

Having seen dozens of opposing lateral steering bars working since 2011 in Pro's, Lites and now two HD2's, I rather suspect it's a syntax error or some operator error!

Let us know!

FergusH

I'm hoping for operator error, that's for sure. For now, I am just using a vertical bar that shows steering angle but doesn't show direction. Since the second camera shows direction, that's fine but it would be nice to have lateral bars working. Any chance you can connect me with someone who's got it working? I don't think ShakeNBake's scene file has steering angle; or does it?