AllanJ

Hey guys,

I'm trying to figure out what to do with my CF wing because it's suffering from a few problems.

- It wasn't made very well (cosmetically). There are numerous pinholes in it (ok, at least hundreds of them) and wax/compound, etc gets caught in these and can't get out. I've tried several things and the only thing that works is using a pin to flick the gunk out. Very slow process.

- I imagine the topcoat on this piece is a simple gelcoat considering the vast number of pinholes and also occasional elongated pinholes along the edge of some of the fibers.

- If rainwater sits on the wing (or as well as the case where I let the end plates soak in Dawn for a few mins), portions of the carbon become cloudy. Considering the porosity of the pieces, I guess water vapor is getting in there and looking blotchy.

- Alcohol can reduce the blotchy bits, as does sanding with fine sandpaper. Can't sand much more though because it's pretty much down to the carbon.

Sample pic:



In a perfect world, I'd have some way of removing all the gunk from the pinholes, getting all the water vapor out, and then spraying it with clear or something like that to seal it so it can look decent.

I imagine I'll be painting it black though.

Any thoughts?

Thanks.

TOGWT

Sounds like the gel coat or clear coat has failed

jbossolo

On a related question, is it possible to protect CF from getting "cloudy" over time? I suspect it has to do with the clearcoat and UV damage to the material, but other than keeping it out of the sun, are there any products out there that can provide some protection? Thanks!

944obscene

Wow. Okay, what I'd do to ensure that the problem is solved, is have the wing sanded down and cleared. You could try things like Polishing and using sealants etc. However that's not going to get rid of the pin holes. The Gel coat is most likely doing what some gel coats do (with the getting foggy etc). You need to seal it. I wouldn't be surprised if it ever yellowed, but that's determined on what type of resin and all was used.

TOGWT

Ultra violet (UV-B) radiation is a paint film surface's greatest enemy, causing more damage than any other airborne contaminant and affecting both the interior and exterior of a vehicle. The light in this spectral range is responsible for photo degradation. Photo degradation results in discoloration, fading, embitterment, cracking, chalking and/or loss of mechanical properties. Heat is also harmful to exposed materials, the heat you feel from the sun, on the dash, etc, is the infra-red (IR) waves at the other end of the spectrum.
Before UV light can cause harm, it must first be absorbed. If it is not turned into heat or transferred to a nearby stabilizer molecule called a quencher, it breaks weak chemical bonds.

This is the beginning of UV damage; some materials absorb UV light more readily than other materials. Materials that readily absorb UV light are quickly damaged...rubber, vinyl, gel coat fibreglass, and many other plastics. Acrylic is slow to absorb UV light and accordingly very resistant to photo degradation

UV inhibitors are often not added to formulas because they are expensive additives and difficult to add to silicone (which most car care products contain). Some companies put a miniscule amount of UV inhibitors in their waxes so that they can claim UV protection.

Problem is that you could not get enough UV absorbing chemical in a wax product that would provide beneficial protection at the extremely thin layer that is left on the vehicle. Essentially, the clear coat or base colour coat paint must contain the effective UV protection.

No wax that you apply will provide any amount of beneficial UV protection. This barrier is all that stands between the environmental contaminants (ultra violet radiation, acid rain, ozone, industrial pollution, rain, road dirt and tar, etc) and the paint film surface and this renewable barrier is probably less than 0.000001-inch (0.001 Mil) thick.

Product
Providing protection from ultra violet radiation (UVR) is very important to avoid photo synthesis (colour fading / yellowing) UVR protection is a sacrificial / renewable component; this is due to the UV protection layer being degraded by exposure to the elements (sun, sand, road or sea salt, and etc) so it is imperative that you renew it and needs to be re-applied on a regular 45 to 60 day basis (dependent upon location climatic condition)

Application- (303 ™ Space Protectant) spray product onto a micro fibre towel, gently wipe surface working from the centre outwards

An extract from one of a series of in-depth detailing articles © TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved.

An extract from one of a series of in-depth detailing articles © TOGWT ™ Ltd Copyright 2002-2008, all rights reserved.

AllanJ

Thanks.

I did the polish/sealant thing with the OPT line and carnauba wax and it looked fine (excluding the pinholes filled with white gunk) until it rained and water sat on the wing. Then wherever water sat in little puddles it went cloudy. Probably needed more wax (only put on one coat).

Those pinholes need to be fixed though so I'm down to "clean out the holes and clear" or "prime and paint". Was hoping for the clean/clear method without needing to use a stupid pin to flick out the gunk. I dunno....maybe it's something to do while the wife watches a boring show on TV.

Cheers,

jbossolo

Thanks! Just ordered some 303.

detailersdomain

why not bring it to a body shop and get it sanded and re cleared I just got my carbon fiber gt2 rep wing done and it looks great!

AllanJ

Thanks for the thought, but I'm tired of dealing with trades people right now. Problem after problem. As I type this I'm looking outside at the crappy job some idiots did painting my fence today. Ugh.

I'll fix the wing myself.

Right now I'm in the middle of a much larger project - repainting a car. The car has been painted and now I'm almost done the wet sanding to eliminate the orange peel. My goal is to make a paint job that looks much nicer than any factory job.

Clear coating a wing is easy compared to this.

I just wasn't sure if folks knew of an easy way to get the gunk out of pinholes or how to deal with a cloudy gelcoat besides sanding/clearing it. The endplates have some very large pinholes and the edges could be shaped better. I'm going to paint the endplates black due to all the flaws and spend some quality time with sandpaper and clear coat and make the carbon wing shine.

Cheers,

detailersdomain

sorry didn't realize that you knew how to paint if so I would re clear it while you are at it painting your car.

wish I had those skills.

AllanJ

I'm a painting newbie and as such needed to use a paint that can tolerate wet sanding.

Considering your great skills with paint correction, you can paint a car. Splash it, sand it, polish it. Done.

Cheers,

detailersdomain

thanks, when you are done please show us the work would love to check it out.

fnckr

How about this idea? Remove the wing and clean the pin holes with some Isopropyl Alcohol. Not sure of the alcohol's affect on gel coat, but on paint it's fine. Or, did you try a soap formulated for breaking up oils, like a mild dishwashing soap or one of the specially formulated car-detailing soaps?

For the cloudiness you might want to try a hair dryer or heat gun to vaporize the water again and hope it dissipates. Keep the wing in a dry area for a bit. After that's all cleared up, you can paint.

Don't paint until you're sure you've removed all of the wax. The wax will repel the wet paint and you'll ended up with spotting.

AllanJ

Thanks for the ideas, Funseeker.

IPA: I have gallons of it here and I tried it several ways. Tried the "furniture repair method" of lightly dragging a moistened rag across the cloudy areas (reduced them a moderate amount), tried more IPA and wiping and tried flooding it on. IPA has done all it can for the cloudy areas and didn't do anything for the pin holes.

Detergent: tried pure Dawn. Tried soaking in Dawn/water mixture (made more cloudy areas appear).

Tried a variety of brushes too.

Tried pressure washing.

I don't have one of those Water Pick things (mini pressure washer for teeth) and that jet spray might be small enough to clean out the pin holes. Gotta find someone with one to try out. Or maybe I'll make one.

Thanks for the heat gun idea. I have one of those as well as an IR heat lamp. I can try both.

Cheers,

TOGWT

Water-based paint is porous; so I think your idea of using an infra red lamp to dry it out is a good first step