Julia

I need to re-blacken some of my exterior rubber trim. I have found three products:

Mother's Back to Black
Forever Black Bumper & Trim Reconditioning Dye
Black Again Exterior Trim Restorer

Has anyone used these products and which would be best?

Thanks,

Anthony Orosco

They all suck and I speak from experience with them all. Now if you want to just give your trim a temporary dressing then any of them will work fine but I would rathe ruse the Mothers over the others.

If you want something permanent then try this product http://www.topoftheline.com/trim-molding-dye.html

It can last anywhere from 1 to 5 years.

Anthony

Jay H

Black Again used to be a great product. But, they discontinued the original formulation (5-6 years ago?) and the new stuff is terrible.

Julia

Thanks for the link Anthony. It seems it's always something! At the last concours I got 199.25 out of 200 and one trim piece looked a little faded (.25 deduction). It didn't look that way in the shade, it was only noticable in the sun.

RJT

OH MY GIRL!!!!!!! Stop the insanity now!!!!!

We got 7/10ths of a point off at Parade for some pollen that we all watched fall right out of the tree and on to the black mat in the back of Max. The judges were not supposed to deduct any' Tree Debris". It was in the hand book. Someone forgot to tell this particular judge to read the book before he came out to judge. I mean, we all watched it fall from the tree when the wind blew. It got on the coachwork too, but the exterior judge didn't ding us for it. MORON interior judge. Come on, did he really think that we'd clean the entire car to the point that you can eat off of the undercarriage (undercarriage got a perfect score!!!!) and then leave some OBVIOUS WHITE pollen out of a PINE Tree on the very very BLACK mat? MORON I tell you. He even dinged us another 9/10th of a point (and you know 9/10th of a point is BIG) for "Dust under the paint" on the floorboards. IT'S TEXTURED PAINT!!!!!! Had he gone to the drivers side and touched they floorboard there too he would have seen that the entire floorboard was bumpy. What a jerk. All that work to have a jerk screw with you. We decided not to protest (which BTW other judges told us to do). We just decided that PCA has just burnt another 356 full Concours Bridge and we will not be showing a 356 in full Concours at Parade ever again. And they wonder where all the 356 folks (and early 911 folks) are going.......

INSANITY!!!!! I tell you. Don't let it bite. IT HURTS!!!!

Sorry for the rant...... Back to the subject at hand:
Don't use Black Again unless you want Brown Again. They did something to it and it's not an improvement. It doesn't worklike it did 8 years or so ago when we used to sell it. With the cars we have now, we don't use much of anything to bring the color back. Most of the rubber parts are new. However ALL of Mothers Products are good. Listen to Anthony. He knows of what he speaks....

JoAnne

Jay H

Man, that sucks. I've judged quite a bit at the local level and just plain common sense would tell you to ignore obvious natural occurances like tree pollen, etc.

Jay
90 964

Julia

Joanne, so good to hear from you. Tom told me you sold Max (Tom got 1st place again in Wash & Shine). Who is Grethen?? You get great cars.

Yes, Anthony knows his stuff. For now I bought the Mothers Back to Black. Frankly, it is so hard to tell it is faded in the shade and barely noticable in the sun. I had the same judge do the exterior at the previous Concours (just 7 days prior) and he didn't give me any deductions. I was suprised at the .25 for that. He is a good judge however, so I will just take it and make it better, unlike the judge who wronged you! The next concours isn't until Sept. 18th, so I can sit back and relax a bit. My husband may be getting CCARS (Concours Cleaning And Restoration Sickness) desease soon. He is flying out to Conneticut next week to look at a Powerhouse inflickted 968. It is concourable! Oh my God, two of us doing this next year I have concidered retiring after this season though, so I can drive & enjoy my car more.

InTheAir

Sorry, slightly OT from the original post.

Julia, Jay, JoAnne, and Anthony-

How do you learn your tricks of the trade--I'd love to learn more about your techniques, products, etc.?

Jay H

For me, I've been detailing cars since I was a teenager. I must have been born with this sickness because I remember always cleaning my first car and detailing it and before I could drive, I would clean the family car.

Lots of trial and error for me over the years. I've made my mistakes (plenty of them) along the way and learned from them. I attend concours schools put on by local regions of the PCA when ever I can. I've been lucky enough to have my car judged by national level judges and bent a few of their ears over the years with questions. I've done lots of reading on web boards as well to get different opinions on what works and what doesn't work. I've spoken to pro detailers to see what works and doesn't work. I find out what they are using, why they use it and what results they get.

I'm a believer in using limited amount of good products. I've given up most of the 'over the counter' types of products you can get at Wal-Mart and such. However, there are many good products out there and I feel there is no one 'best wax', or 'best vinyl treatment', etc.

Keep it simple but effective. Anthony (I don't know him, but he sounds like he knows exactly what he is doing) has mentioned elsewhere on this board that you can get a car to look great with minimal amounts of products. I agree. I have not personally used these 8 step (or however many) processes that certain manufacturers use for waxing/polishing a car, but in many cases I also don't have 8 hours to wax a car when a customer is coming back in 3-5 hours to pick up their car and it's gotta look perfect...exterior, interior, rims, etc.

Some products make my life easier such as P21S wax that does not leave residue on black trim - less to 'fix' if I make an error in applying wax. Find the stuff that does what it should and gives the results you want for the money you want to pay.

When I'm at a concours, I also observe the top guys as well when they prep their cars. Look at what they're using and see how their car looks. I respectfully quiz the judges if I can and ask for help if I can. Most are always eager to supply advice on this and that (and I'll bend over backwards to help someone with a problem if I'm judging their car). Ask a lot of questions...

Also, use common sense as well. Recently, I watched an owner of a black, newer Porsche rub a dirty California Duster with lots of force back and forth on his paint after driving through a dusty parking area (very dry grass and dirt). He was literally taking two hands and pressing it hard against the body, rubbing it back and forth to 'clean' the car. I had to avert my eyes....(maybe I should have offered him some sand paper since he was essentially dry sanding his car's paint). That's just plain stupid...

And, if you need to experiment, experiment on your daily driver or another car that is not valued in the way we value our Porsches, etc.

Sorry for the length... I'm not a national concours winner by any means (my car has a long way to go), but it's just my $.02 on detailing and concours prep from what I've experienced.

Jay
90 964

Julia

Jay has good advice. I am learning as I go: Reading boards, asking question from others at the concours, taking a concours school, researching products and "How to's" on car care products web sites such as "Car care specialities", Proper auto care", etc. You have to love doing it as well. It takes time and patience. Anthony gives wonderful advice as well.

The wonderful thing about this board and Porsche people in general, is we all share a common interest and love of the cars and willingness to help other Porschefiles. I have received so much help from all the wonderful people who I have only "met" here and it's like one big happy family!

Anthony Orosco

Jay -

Hey that was a great post Thank you and Julia both for the kind words.

InTheAir -

I have been detailing for many years, 16 years now as a professional auto detailer. I started in California and some years ago moved to my home state of Texas where I continue to detail. I have now moved into the area of consulting/testing products, chemicals and tools for various companies and while it is a nice break from the physical demands of detailing I will forever love detailing a beautiful car!

I don't buy into many of the detailing myths out there and I do my best to debunk them and show people, as well as other detailers how to properly detail their cars without having to sell the farm, spend 8 hours just washing and drying or adding 9 layers of Brand X Wax thinking that it will help somehow.

My "tips" have come by experience in the field of detailing, some trial and error and making good friends and contacts with chemists and people in the auto paint industry. What's a true secret? Well it would be that there are no secret formulas in the chemical side of products.

Anthony

InTheAir

Julia, Jay, Anthony -

Thanks for your thoughts. I'll continue to read your posts and this forum for help in maintaining/detailing my own car.

Julia, thanks for tolerating the OT.

RJT

Jay..... I know, that is why I took it so hard. It's not like we don't know what we are doing. We have won Class and Division with the same car at Parade last year. Maybe that was the problem..... Don't know. Anyway we took Max to the Dana Point Concours in California and showed him one more time before turning the keys over to his new owner. We won the Competition Class in Full Concours. It was a nice way to end our "affair" with Max. Off new new things.....

Julia..... Gretchen is a 1955 Speedster. I've posted a few pics of her on the 356 board. You are welcome to check her out there I know she is already in excellent shape as she has been shown in New York and at 356 Registry events. She is even coming to us with 5 extra date correct wheels that we can pop on before competitions. This is going to be fun. No more Full Concours ever, but touring (Street) Class? Why not!! Yup, having a very clean car is addictive. I admit it, I'm a gluton for punishment!!!

Anthony..... I have a question for you. On our Concours cars we use wax (no polymers). Currently we are mainly using P21S wax and cleaner. We don't ever want to use anything on them that will bond to the paint (such as Zaino) for fear that in time it may one day decide to peel off like the old polyglycoat used to do. The show cars cars are not out in the elements unless we get caught in the rain during an event (and it has happened). We now have 4 cars and one will have to sit outside (our Tahoe). What would you recommend we use? Like I said we have not used the new polymers before, yet we know that the Tahoe will need more than just wax for protection. What do you think of Meguire's Tech Wax?

JoAnne

Anthony Orosco

RJT,

If you keep up on the Tahoe, say on a 6 to 8 week basis then your traditional paste wax is fine. There is a wax called Collinite Insulator, a paste wax, that has great longevity. I believe many boat shops sell it or you can find it on-line also.

If you wish to use the Meguairs NXT because of its simplicity then I would highly recommend another spray wax called Optimum Spray Wax. It contains no cleaners, no solvents, will not leave any residue behind and it has something that no other waxes have, UV absorbers which is vital since you say the Tahoe will be outside. It can be used on glass, chrome, plastics and will not whiten up on trim.

It does have a formulation of carnauba and also polymers but polymers are nothing to fear. Their function is to bond with the paint, true, but it is not an acrylic.

The Optimum spray wax is super easy to use and you can wax the entire truck in about 15 minutes but don't let the easy application and the liguid formulation fool you as it can last up to 3 or 4 months from one application. I use it on all of my clients cars, from Aston Martins to Z-cars. The NXT is nice but you'll get better durability from the Optimum. P21S is a beauty was more than protection so what you may wish to try on your next detail before doing the P21S, apply Optimum, let it sit for 24 hours to allow it to cross-link and then apply some P21S on top of the Optimum.

Optimum wax looks great when you first apply it but 12 to 24 hours later and it will look amazingly better.

Any further questions please let me know,
Anthony

Jay H

Anthony:

Waxing a truck in 15 minutes got my attention...! Is there a place on-line to get Optimum products? (Feel free to PM me if you do not wish to post that info here...)

I use P21S Concours Look wax on the 911 and I love it. If a spray wax can help with a bit more shine than the P21S has, I'd love to try it. Also, if it's quick, I'd love to try that on my daily drivers (which I use a traditional paste wax on).

Jay