2023 Cayenne Engine Issues
08-10-2024, 02:34 PM
#1
2023 Cayenne Engine Issues
I bought a 2023 Cayenne last summer CPO with 10K miles. Since then I've had engine "sputtering" issues, particularly at low RPM or decelerating. I drive in Normal mode. I notice it backing out of my driveway, accelerating out of my neighborhood, and slowing to a stop then accelerating at intersections. I've also noticed it departing a freeway after a long drive. It also seems to correlate with ambient heat (I live in Houston.) The issue significantly affects the driving experience of the car. My wife owns a 2019 BMW X5 and the engine is very smooth accelerating and decelerating - the differences are very noticeable.
I have taken the car to my dealership twice and they apparently spent significant time trying to replicate the issue (the vehicle isn't throwing any codes.) They hypothesized that it might be due to a bad high pressure fuel pump but without a code, Porsche wouldn't authorize the repair supposedly. The second time I took the car in they claim to have replicated the issue and are now working with Porsche technical support on a "software fix" but it has been several months.
I read through the forums for a couple of hours this morning and noticed the "lurching, surging or lurging when downshifting" issue in the common problems thread. Is this the issue I have? Is there any hope? I'm at the point of considering getting rid of the car the issue is so prevalent.
Final question - when working issues with prior BMWs and Volvo's, the customer support desk was very helpful in escalating issues, tracking their status, and directing resources to address them. I called Porsche support after the second visit to my dealer and they were very nice but not helpful at all. They called the dealership, got the story from them, and politely told me the dealership was working the issue and didn't offer to work the issue any further. Is this a typical Porsche way of working or did I just draw an unhelpful rep?
This is all very frustrating for an $80K + car and my first Porsche experience. I read reviews on here comparing the X5 to the Cayenne suggesting the driving experience of the Cayenne is far superior. I can say in my case from owning both currently it is not the case at all. I hope I can figure out a solution.
I have taken the car to my dealership twice and they apparently spent significant time trying to replicate the issue (the vehicle isn't throwing any codes.) They hypothesized that it might be due to a bad high pressure fuel pump but without a code, Porsche wouldn't authorize the repair supposedly. The second time I took the car in they claim to have replicated the issue and are now working with Porsche technical support on a "software fix" but it has been several months.
I read through the forums for a couple of hours this morning and noticed the "lurching, surging or lurging when downshifting" issue in the common problems thread. Is this the issue I have? Is there any hope? I'm at the point of considering getting rid of the car the issue is so prevalent.
Final question - when working issues with prior BMWs and Volvo's, the customer support desk was very helpful in escalating issues, tracking their status, and directing resources to address them. I called Porsche support after the second visit to my dealer and they were very nice but not helpful at all. They called the dealership, got the story from them, and politely told me the dealership was working the issue and didn't offer to work the issue any further. Is this a typical Porsche way of working or did I just draw an unhelpful rep?
This is all very frustrating for an $80K + car and my first Porsche experience. I read reviews on here comparing the X5 to the Cayenne suggesting the driving experience of the Cayenne is far superior. I can say in my case from owning both currently it is not the case at all. I hope I can figure out a solution.
08-10-2024, 04:34 PM
#2
Rennlist Member
I am aware of the lurching concern with these vehicles. My car does it (2019 Base model.) My experience with that is that it occurs when decelerating to a stop. Looking at the display on my dash when it occurs, the problem seems to correlate with the transmission downshifting into 2nd gear - that's when I feel the lurching forward.
That issue in my car does not seem to be engine related at all. No sputtering (as you've described your concern as being.) And it never occurs when accelerating.
It sounds like the issue you're experiencing is something other than the lurching issue. Or, you may possibly be experiencing two or more issues that are unrelated - lurching possibly being one of them (although I have read that the lurching issue was resolved by the 2023 model release...)
That issue in my car does not seem to be engine related at all. No sputtering (as you've described your concern as being.) And it never occurs when accelerating.
It sounds like the issue you're experiencing is something other than the lurching issue. Or, you may possibly be experiencing two or more issues that are unrelated - lurching possibly being one of them (although I have read that the lurching issue was resolved by the 2023 model release...)
08-11-2024, 09:04 AM
#3
Rennlist Member
I bought a 2023 Cayenne last summer CPO with 10K miles. Since then I've had engine "sputtering" issues, particularly at low RPM or decelerating. I drive in Normal mode. I notice it backing out of my driveway, accelerating out of my neighborhood, and slowing to a stop then accelerating at intersections. I've also noticed it departing a freeway after a long drive. It also seems to correlate with ambient heat (I live in Houston.) The issue significantly affects the driving experience of the car. My wife owns a 2019 BMW X5 and the engine is very smooth accelerating and decelerating - the differences are very noticeable.
I have taken the car to my dealership twice and they apparently spent significant time trying to replicate the issue (the vehicle isn't throwing any codes.) They hypothesized that it might be due to a bad high pressure fuel pump but without a code, Porsche wouldn't authorize the repair supposedly. The second time I took the car in they claim to have replicated the issue and are now working with Porsche technical support on a "software fix" but it has been several months.
I read through the forums for a couple of hours this morning and noticed the "lurching, surging or lurging when downshifting" issue in the common problems thread. Is this the issue I have? Is there any hope? I'm at the point of considering getting rid of the car the issue is so prevalent.
Final question - when working issues with prior BMWs and Volvo's, the customer support desk was very helpful in escalating issues, tracking their status, and directing resources to address them. I called Porsche support after the second visit to my dealer and they were very nice but not helpful at all. They called the dealership, got the story from them, and politely told me the dealership was working the issue and didn't offer to work the issue any further. Is this a typical Porsche way of working or did I just draw an unhelpful rep?
This is all very frustrating for an $80K + car and my first Porsche experience. I read reviews on here comparing the X5 to the Cayenne suggesting the driving experience of the Cayenne is far superior. I can say in my case from owning both currently it is not the case at all. I hope I can figure out a solution.
I have taken the car to my dealership twice and they apparently spent significant time trying to replicate the issue (the vehicle isn't throwing any codes.) They hypothesized that it might be due to a bad high pressure fuel pump but without a code, Porsche wouldn't authorize the repair supposedly. The second time I took the car in they claim to have replicated the issue and are now working with Porsche technical support on a "software fix" but it has been several months.
I read through the forums for a couple of hours this morning and noticed the "lurching, surging or lurging when downshifting" issue in the common problems thread. Is this the issue I have? Is there any hope? I'm at the point of considering getting rid of the car the issue is so prevalent.
Final question - when working issues with prior BMWs and Volvo's, the customer support desk was very helpful in escalating issues, tracking their status, and directing resources to address them. I called Porsche support after the second visit to my dealer and they were very nice but not helpful at all. They called the dealership, got the story from them, and politely told me the dealership was working the issue and didn't offer to work the issue any further. Is this a typical Porsche way of working or did I just draw an unhelpful rep?
This is all very frustrating for an $80K + car and my first Porsche experience. I read reviews on here comparing the X5 to the Cayenne suggesting the driving experience of the Cayenne is far superior. I can say in my case from owning both currently it is not the case at all. I hope I can figure out a solution.
The car is covered under the original manufacturer's warranty now, this is your route for resolution.
No code = minimal effort, or none at all, applied by the dealer.
Sputtering is not the lurching/surging/lurging issue. The lurching issue is the poor software programming done by Porsche to open the torque converter lockup clutch in an untimely way as the vehicle is decelerating, resulting in engine inertia momentarily running away from the system and causing a forward propulsive torque impulse.
Sputtering is fuel or spark. Because your car is almost new, I would consider coils and spark plugs to be OK. There have been a report or two related to HPFP. This sounds plausible but without a code, you will not get any parts replaced. Bad sensors and unmetered air can cause sputtering. Unlikely with a new car like yours to have a bad sensor but it is not impossible. Are any of the intake, vacuum, PCV or purge lines cracked or loose?
"Software update" is the dealer fluffing you off.
You need to concentrate on precisely recreating the situation, then demonstrate it to the dealer when you are driving, then change seats with the dealer SA and have him/her reproduce it when you are in the passenger seat.
Last edited by chassis; 08-11-2024 at 09:07 AM.
08-13-2024, 12:25 PM
#4
Which trim level? Base, S, GTS or Turbo?
The car is covered under the original manufacturer's warranty now, this is your route for resolution.
No code = minimal effort, or none at all, applied by the dealer.
Sputtering is not the lurching/surging/lurging issue. The lurching issue is the poor software programming done by Porsche to open the torque converter lockup clutch in an untimely way as the vehicle is decelerating, resulting in engine inertia momentarily running away from the system and causing a forward propulsive torque impulse.
Sputtering is fuel or spark. Because your car is almost new, I would consider coils and spark plugs to be OK. There have been a report or two related to HPFP. This sounds plausible but without a code, you will not get any parts replaced. Bad sensors and unmetered air can cause sputtering. Unlikely with a new car like yours to have a bad sensor but it is not impossible. Are any of the intake, vacuum, PCV or purge lines cracked or loose?
"Software update" is the dealer fluffing you off.
You need to concentrate on precisely recreating the situation, then demonstrate it to the dealer when you are driving, then change seats with the dealer SA and have him/her reproduce it when you are in the passenger seat.
The car is covered under the original manufacturer's warranty now, this is your route for resolution.
No code = minimal effort, or none at all, applied by the dealer.
Sputtering is not the lurching/surging/lurging issue. The lurching issue is the poor software programming done by Porsche to open the torque converter lockup clutch in an untimely way as the vehicle is decelerating, resulting in engine inertia momentarily running away from the system and causing a forward propulsive torque impulse.
Sputtering is fuel or spark. Because your car is almost new, I would consider coils and spark plugs to be OK. There have been a report or two related to HPFP. This sounds plausible but without a code, you will not get any parts replaced. Bad sensors and unmetered air can cause sputtering. Unlikely with a new car like yours to have a bad sensor but it is not impossible. Are any of the intake, vacuum, PCV or purge lines cracked or loose?
"Software update" is the dealer fluffing you off.
You need to concentrate on precisely recreating the situation, then demonstrate it to the dealer when you are driving, then change seats with the dealer SA and have him/her reproduce it when you are in the passenger seat.
The following users liked this post:
chassis (08-13-2024)
08-13-2024, 12:33 PM
#5
Use your phone on video record if you think it will support the issue. At some point you might qualify for a buyback...that should get some action. Usually 3 trips without repair and then they have one final chance to repair-state lemon laws differ.
08-15-2024, 07:23 PM
#6
I bought a 2023 Cayenne last summer CPO with 10K miles. Since then I've had engine "sputtering" issues, particularly at low RPM or decelerating. I drive in Normal mode. I notice it backing out of my driveway, accelerating out of my neighborhood, and slowing to a stop then accelerating at intersections. I've also noticed it departing a freeway after a long drive. It also seems to correlate with ambient heat (I live in Houston.) The issue significantly affects the driving experience of the car. My wife owns a 2019 BMW X5 and the engine is very smooth accelerating and decelerating - the differences are very noticeable.
I have taken the car to my dealership twice and they apparently spent significant time trying to replicate the issue (the vehicle isn't throwing any codes.) They hypothesized that it might be due to a bad high pressure fuel pump but without a code, Porsche wouldn't authorize the repair supposedly. The second time I took the car in they claim to have replicated the issue and are now working with Porsche technical support on a "software fix" but it has been several months.
I read through the forums for a couple of hours this morning and noticed the "lurching, surging or lurging when downshifting" issue in the common problems thread. Is this the issue I have? Is there any hope? I'm at the point of considering getting rid of the car the issue is so prevalent.
Final question - when working issues with prior BMWs and Volvo's, the customer support desk was very helpful in escalating issues, tracking their status, and directing resources to address them. I called Porsche support after the second visit to my dealer and they were very nice but not helpful at all. They called the dealership, got the story from them, and politely told me the dealership was working the issue and didn't offer to work the issue any further. Is this a typical Porsche way of working or did I just draw an unhelpful rep?
This is all very frustrating for an $80K + car and my first Porsche experience. I read reviews on here comparing the X5 to the Cayenne suggesting the driving experience of the Cayenne is far superior. I can say in my case from owning both currently it is not the case at all. I hope I can figure out a solution.
I have taken the car to my dealership twice and they apparently spent significant time trying to replicate the issue (the vehicle isn't throwing any codes.) They hypothesized that it might be due to a bad high pressure fuel pump but without a code, Porsche wouldn't authorize the repair supposedly. The second time I took the car in they claim to have replicated the issue and are now working with Porsche technical support on a "software fix" but it has been several months.
I read through the forums for a couple of hours this morning and noticed the "lurching, surging or lurging when downshifting" issue in the common problems thread. Is this the issue I have? Is there any hope? I'm at the point of considering getting rid of the car the issue is so prevalent.
Final question - when working issues with prior BMWs and Volvo's, the customer support desk was very helpful in escalating issues, tracking their status, and directing resources to address them. I called Porsche support after the second visit to my dealer and they were very nice but not helpful at all. They called the dealership, got the story from them, and politely told me the dealership was working the issue and didn't offer to work the issue any further. Is this a typical Porsche way of working or did I just draw an unhelpful rep?
This is all very frustrating for an $80K + car and my first Porsche experience. I read reviews on here comparing the X5 to the Cayenne suggesting the driving experience of the Cayenne is far superior. I can say in my case from owning both currently it is not the case at all. I hope I can figure out a solution.
It sounds and so it seems Your purpose Goal/Mission is wanting a refined comfy but yet sporty SUV with Good Tech. That's BMW for Ya!!!
Porsche is a different untamed animal... clunky and unrefined. Just for a side note, BMW did soften their car suspension and steering for a reason because of drivers complaints in the past. The X5 sells 3 times as many as Cayenne's worldwide.... so it is not a true comparison.
I come from BMW, so I know that switching to Porsche feels a bit of a downgrade when it comes to Engine refinement and overall drive/feel but Porsche must be understood as something different all together and not comparable per se.
If Cayenne had the B58 Inline 6; I can only imagine what a BEAST it could be..... Dreams.
My suggestion is if Comfort and smoothness is important to You; BMW is your pick.
If You can live with the Porsche; it will reward You with special feel and uniqueness. I learned to live with mine for now...
The transmission shifting issue unfortunately is not solved. I think a fix was introduced for "22 models but older won't get any software update.
Your Cayenne should not have the transmission issue experienced by many of us older years.
I will suggest to continue working with your dealership until they diagnose the problem and have real proofs for escalation with PNA.
or if they offer You a way out without losing any feathers and switching... that could be solution for your troubles. Hopefully, You win in either cases.
Last edited by Preludatorx007; 08-15-2024 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Adding
08-15-2024, 07:41 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
It sounds and so it seems Your purpose Goal/Mission is wanting a refined comfy but yet sporty SUV with Good Tech. That's BMW for Ya!!!
Porsche is a different untamed animal... clunky and unrefined. Just for a side note, BMW did soften their car suspension and steering for a reason because of drivers complaints in the past. The X5 sells 3 times as many as Cayenne's worldwide.... so it is not a true comparison.
I come from BMW, so I know that switching to Porsche feels a bit of a downgrade when it comes to Engine refinement and overall drive/feel but Porsche must be understood as something different all together and not comparable per se.
If Cayenne had the B58 Inline 6; I can only imagine what a BEAST it could be..... Dreams.
My suggestion is if Comfort and smoothness is important to You; BMW is your pick.
If You can live with the Porsche; it will reward You with special feel and uniqueness. I learned to live with mine for now...
The transmission shifting issue unfortunately is not solved. I think a fix was introduced for "22 models but older won't get any software update.
Porsche is a different untamed animal... clunky and unrefined. Just for a side note, BMW did soften their car suspension and steering for a reason because of drivers complaints in the past. The X5 sells 3 times as many as Cayenne's worldwide.... so it is not a true comparison.
I come from BMW, so I know that switching to Porsche feels a bit of a downgrade when it comes to Engine refinement and overall drive/feel but Porsche must be understood as something different all together and not comparable per se.
If Cayenne had the B58 Inline 6; I can only imagine what a BEAST it could be..... Dreams.
My suggestion is if Comfort and smoothness is important to You; BMW is your pick.
If You can live with the Porsche; it will reward You with special feel and uniqueness. I learned to live with mine for now...
The transmission shifting issue unfortunately is not solved. I think a fix was introduced for "22 models but older won't get any software update.
The X5 is a very good vehicle. And the excellent reputation of the B58 is well deserved.
I would certainly voice exception regarding the comment about the Porsche being clunky and unrefined. Far from it.
Key problem with the X5 to me is that there are so many weakly equipped grocery-getters with cheap vinyl interiors out there; so many stripped down soccer mom specials, that the few decent sporting versions are the "rare diamonds among a lot of rocks."
If the thought is to order and buy new, then your resale value is significantly impacted by the vast number of stripped down X5's. If the thought is to buy used, well - look out because almost all of the X5's are leased, and it's a very rare car among those that is properly maintained.
Then there's the dumbed down steel suspension of the BMW.
The BMW doesn't offer anywhere near the overall vehicle dynamics of the Cayenne.
None of this discussion helps the OP - so I apologize for the digression....
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08-15-2024, 08:51 PM
#8
Not to get off on an unrelated tangent - but I can't let the post above go without a comment in response ---
The X5 is a very good vehicle. And the excellent reputation of the B58 is well deserved.
I would certainly voice exception regarding the comment about the Porsche being clunky and unrefined. Far from it.
Key problem with the X5 to me is that there are so many weakly equipped grocery-getters with cheap vinyl interiors out there; so many stripped down soccer mom specials, that the few decent sporting versions are the "rare diamonds among a lot of rocks."
If the thought is to order and buy new, then your resale value is significantly impacted by the vast number of stripped down X5's. If the thought is to buy used, well - look out because almost all of the X5's are leased, and it's a very rare car among those that is properly maintained.
Then there's the dumbed down steel suspension of the BMW.
The BMW doesn't offer anywhere near the overall vehicle dynamics of the Cayenne.
None of this discussion helps the OP - so I apologize for the digression....
The X5 is a very good vehicle. And the excellent reputation of the B58 is well deserved.
I would certainly voice exception regarding the comment about the Porsche being clunky and unrefined. Far from it.
Key problem with the X5 to me is that there are so many weakly equipped grocery-getters with cheap vinyl interiors out there; so many stripped down soccer mom specials, that the few decent sporting versions are the "rare diamonds among a lot of rocks."
If the thought is to order and buy new, then your resale value is significantly impacted by the vast number of stripped down X5's. If the thought is to buy used, well - look out because almost all of the X5's are leased, and it's a very rare car among those that is properly maintained.
Then there's the dumbed down steel suspension of the BMW.
The BMW doesn't offer anywhere near the overall vehicle dynamics of the Cayenne.
None of this discussion helps the OP - so I apologize for the digression....
i bought a Porsche for a reason 😎
but just to be clear, no car is perfect. They both have strengths and weaknesses.
BMW is for the masses and cannot deny their engineering prowess. They do certain things well and always innovating.
porsche is on another level for sure and special. But being an Audi (for its suv's) down under is not. It comes with its issues as well.
not bashing Porsche; i would want them to do well but certainly there is room for potential improvements when it comes to the VW/Audi Engines borrowed for the suv's.
ultimately it is expected for a brand like Porsche to provide us all with upmost commitment to customer service and satisfaction.
problems in = fixed quick and efficient
08-15-2024, 10:34 PM
#9
I cant speak to the Base Cayenne but my 2023 GTS was very refined in Normal Mode. That was with PDCC. Mine did have a transfer case issue...for 2025 the T.C will be liquid cooled.
I liked the overall Tech. More config options would be nice but might also add issues and complexity.
As delivered, my Tech was very glitchy with slight imrovements over the next year. IMO, the CGTS is almost a perfect balance of utility, power, handling and decent comfort. Hopefully the Tech is better after another year.
I liked the overall Tech. More config options would be nice but might also add issues and complexity.
As delivered, my Tech was very glitchy with slight imrovements over the next year. IMO, the CGTS is almost a perfect balance of utility, power, handling and decent comfort. Hopefully the Tech is better after another year.
Last edited by Ron.s; 08-15-2024 at 10:35 PM.
08-19-2024, 11:50 AM
#10
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
What dealer in Houston are you taking it to?
Also, I never have had issues with our Cayenne (EHybrid) while running in ICE mode. I've pushed it pretty hard on occasion and never anything at all rough. You definitely have an issue.
I know it's a pain, but I'd honestly mount a GoPro and start recording all your drives to capture evidence of it. Then bring it to the dealer and tell them to give you a loaner while they fix it and not pick it up until it's fixed.
Also, I never have had issues with our Cayenne (EHybrid) while running in ICE mode. I've pushed it pretty hard on occasion and never anything at all rough. You definitely have an issue.
I know it's a pain, but I'd honestly mount a GoPro and start recording all your drives to capture evidence of it. Then bring it to the dealer and tell them to give you a loaner while they fix it and not pick it up until it's fixed.
08-20-2024, 02:18 PM
#11
Race Director
Not to get off on an unrelated tangent - but I can't let the post above go without a comment in response ---
The X5 is a very good vehicle. And the excellent reputation of the B58 is well deserved.
I would certainly voice exception regarding the comment about the Porsche being clunky and unrefined. Far from it.
Key problem with the X5 to me is that there are so many weakly equipped grocery-getters with cheap vinyl interiors out there; so many stripped down soccer mom specials, that the few decent sporting versions are the "rare diamonds among a lot of rocks."
If the thought is to order and buy new, then your resale value is significantly impacted by the vast number of stripped down X5's. If the thought is to buy used, well - look out because almost all of the X5's are leased, and it's a very rare car among those that is properly maintained.
Then there's the dumbed down steel suspension of the BMW.
The BMW doesn't offer anywhere near the overall vehicle dynamics of the Cayenne.
None of this discussion helps the OP - so I apologize for the digression....
The X5 is a very good vehicle. And the excellent reputation of the B58 is well deserved.
I would certainly voice exception regarding the comment about the Porsche being clunky and unrefined. Far from it.
Key problem with the X5 to me is that there are so many weakly equipped grocery-getters with cheap vinyl interiors out there; so many stripped down soccer mom specials, that the few decent sporting versions are the "rare diamonds among a lot of rocks."
If the thought is to order and buy new, then your resale value is significantly impacted by the vast number of stripped down X5's. If the thought is to buy used, well - look out because almost all of the X5's are leased, and it's a very rare car among those that is properly maintained.
Then there's the dumbed down steel suspension of the BMW.
The BMW doesn't offer anywhere near the overall vehicle dynamics of the Cayenne.
None of this discussion helps the OP - so I apologize for the digression....
And a no-option base cayenne is pretty low rent.
08-20-2024, 03:38 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
08-20-2024, 07:08 PM
#13
That statement is BS as anyone who has owned both knows, both great vehicles.
Last edited by Hunky; 08-20-2024 at 08:33 PM.
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08-20-2024, 11:12 PM
#14
There is a new Audi Engine named EA839Evo B10 to be replacing the current B9.5 engines.
https://www.034motorsport.com/blog/t...been-unveiled/
so very likely it will end up in new Porsche 2025 when released. see section in link about air/water cooled and charge pipes. Interesting read indeed. Enjoy!!!
https://www.034motorsport.com/blog/t...been-unveiled/
so very likely it will end up in new Porsche 2025 when released. see section in link about air/water cooled and charge pipes. Interesting read indeed. Enjoy!!!
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chassis (08-20-2024)
08-20-2024, 11:30 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
Good to see VAG continuing this good engine. It is proving itself to be reliable.
Water-air intercoolers are not new for Cayenne, they exist on .1. Audi installations used air-air charge air coolers.
The other items: VGT, injector spray pattern, combustion chamber shape are nice evolutions but not too dramatic in my view.
Water-air intercoolers are not new for Cayenne, they exist on .1. Audi installations used air-air charge air coolers.
The other items: VGT, injector spray pattern, combustion chamber shape are nice evolutions but not too dramatic in my view.