Trickle charger for LiFe battery
07-31-2021, 09:39 AM
#1
Intermediate
Thread Starter
Trickle charger for LiFe battery
I just took receipt of a new Cayenne S model. After one day of ownership, the car said I had pulled the battery down--as i was sitting in the car with the Accessory switch on while reading the manual.
So, I read in the manual I should use a trickle charger made for this LiFePo battery. The Porsche branded model cost $189 and plugs into the cigarette lighter. The original manufacturer offers their own model with terminal clamps for $124, CTEK (56-926) LITHIUM US 12 Volt Fully Automatic LiFePO4 Battery Charger..
But when I hook it up, I get an error message saying the battery is not recognized. Instructions mention a protection feature of the battery that is of low power, so hitting the reset button on the charger is supposed to overcome that protection. But, this charger still does not work, and shows a red error light all the time.
Does anyone know what is going on? Should I buy the Porsche branded model, even though it's made by CTEK? Thanks for any help you can render.
So, I read in the manual I should use a trickle charger made for this LiFePo battery. The Porsche branded model cost $189 and plugs into the cigarette lighter. The original manufacturer offers their own model with terminal clamps for $124, CTEK (56-926) LITHIUM US 12 Volt Fully Automatic LiFePO4 Battery Charger..
But when I hook it up, I get an error message saying the battery is not recognized. Instructions mention a protection feature of the battery that is of low power, so hitting the reset button on the charger is supposed to overcome that protection. But, this charger still does not work, and shows a red error light all the time.
Does anyone know what is going on? Should I buy the Porsche branded model, even though it's made by CTEK? Thanks for any help you can render.
07-31-2021, 10:32 AM
#2
Rennlist Member
Hello Mitch. Congratulations on your new ride! Sorry you’re having problems.
Are you attempting to charge a dead battery? The CTEK doesn’t really do a good job forcing the battery management system to reconnect the battery. Best practice is to jump the battery with a battery booster or another car. Once the battery is back online, the CTEK should charge the battery just fine. Note that the CTEK will get quite warm to the touch during charging — this is normal.
Are you connecting the CTEK to the jump terminals under the hood? I found this inconvenient and subject to poor connections or reverse polarity. I purchased the CTEK cigarette lighter adapter for about 15 bucks, available here:
I connect the charger through the 12V power plug (cigarette lighter) just like the Porsche branded CTEK charger. One user posted that you should only connect via the outlet in the passenger footwell. I have had no issues connecting through the outlet on the center console, although mine is equipped with the smoker package. Note that you should connect the charger within a few minutes of shut down, as the 12V power plug is deactivated after 15 minutes unless you have the charger connected.
More info in this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...battery-6.html
Are you attempting to charge a dead battery? The CTEK doesn’t really do a good job forcing the battery management system to reconnect the battery. Best practice is to jump the battery with a battery booster or another car. Once the battery is back online, the CTEK should charge the battery just fine. Note that the CTEK will get quite warm to the touch during charging — this is normal.
Are you connecting the CTEK to the jump terminals under the hood? I found this inconvenient and subject to poor connections or reverse polarity. I purchased the CTEK cigarette lighter adapter for about 15 bucks, available here:
I connect the charger through the 12V power plug (cigarette lighter) just like the Porsche branded CTEK charger. One user posted that you should only connect via the outlet in the passenger footwell. I have had no issues connecting through the outlet on the center console, although mine is equipped with the smoker package. Note that you should connect the charger within a few minutes of shut down, as the 12V power plug is deactivated after 15 minutes unless you have the charger connected.
More info in this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...battery-6.html
Last edited by Schnave; 07-31-2021 at 10:37 AM.
07-31-2021, 01:46 PM
#3
Rennlist Member
I also use the CTEK Lithium US charger, the cig adapter that Schnave posted above and the outlet on the center console. As noted above, you must plug it in shortly after shutting off your Cayenne. In fact, you can take it a step further and plug in the charger before you turn off your Cayenne. That should do the trick.
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KLOC (12-29-2021)
07-31-2021, 05:25 PM
#4
Drifting
Firstly, you need to have the correct Porsche (CTEK) charger for lithium ion batteries. Plug it into the cigarette lighter style port in the passenger footwell, plug it into the wall plug, open and close one of the doors then set the charger to the correct mode and wait for the battery to charge over night
Last edited by kayjh; 07-31-2021 at 05:34 PM.
07-31-2021, 10:27 PM
#5
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Firstly, you need to have the correct Porsche (CTEK) charger for lithium ion batteries. Plug it into the cigarette lighter style port in the passenger footwell, plug it into the wall plug, open and close one of the doors then set the charger to the correct mode and wait for the battery to charge over night
I just took receipt of a new Cayenne S model. After one day of ownership, the car said I had pulled the battery down--as i was sitting in the car with the Accessory switch on while reading the manual.
So, I read in the manual I should use a trickle charger made for this LiFePo battery. The Porsche branded model cost $189 and plugs into the cigarette lighter. The original manufacturer offers their own model with terminal clamps for $124, CTEK (56-926) LITHIUM US 12 Volt Fully Automatic LiFePO4 Battery Charger..
But when I hook it up, I get an error message saying the battery is not recognized. Instructions mention a protection feature of the battery that is of low power, so hitting the reset button on the charger is supposed to overcome that protection. But, this charger still does not work, and shows a red error light all the time.
Does anyone know what is going on? Should I buy the Porsche branded model, even though it's made by CTEK? Thanks for any help you can render.
So, I read in the manual I should use a trickle charger made for this LiFePo battery. The Porsche branded model cost $189 and plugs into the cigarette lighter. The original manufacturer offers their own model with terminal clamps for $124, CTEK (56-926) LITHIUM US 12 Volt Fully Automatic LiFePO4 Battery Charger..
But when I hook it up, I get an error message saying the battery is not recognized. Instructions mention a protection feature of the battery that is of low power, so hitting the reset button on the charger is supposed to overcome that protection. But, this charger still does not work, and shows a red error light all the time.
Does anyone know what is going on? Should I buy the Porsche branded model, even though it's made by CTEK? Thanks for any help you can render.
Schnave was correct that the CTEK Charger does not have the ability to actually wake the Porsche Lithium Battery up. In General the Battery Management System (BMS) for a Lithium Battery will go into Protection Mode when it is over highly discharged. This protection mode puts the battery into a SLEEP MODE that requires roughly 12v to be awakened from. But a CTEK and most every Charger on the Market does NOT have the ability to awaken a Lithium Battery immediately out of sleep mode because they are designed for simple charging and maintenance, they do not deliver a sufficiently high voltage/current combo to zap the battery awake when connected to a battery, so you have to do this overnight thing with the CTEK which is not acceptable to most people. But if you can zap the battery awake you can start charging immediately, or awaken it so you can properly jump start it. But just as important is that theses Chargers will often not even recognize a battery is there because the Battery is in Sleep Mode and not putting any voltage to it's terminals so the charger won't even see the Battery, so that is why you have to zap it awake to allow it to permit voltage to the terminals again so the chargers can begin charging.
We actually worked closely with Optimate to make a Charger that will awaken a BMS for a Larger Automotive Lithium Battery like our Antigravity Batteries and the Porsche Lithium Battery. Our Antigravity Battery can awaken Wirelessly, but we also wanted make sure a Charger could do the same thing if the Customer did not have their Keyfob handy. So we worked with Optimate to get a Lithium Charger with a sufficient enough hit of voltage and current to wake up a Lithium Battery that is in Protection Mode.
That model is called the Optimate TM 271. But before you buy make sure you are getting one of the latest models because prior to our testing and working with them the 271 could not do what we asked. But as I understand it they mostly have all new inventory of them in the USA. Just wanted to give you a heads up on that.
Anyway, how this works is, if you hook up this Optimate TM271 to a Lithium Battery in Protection Mode/Sleep Mode, you press a button on the charger and in about 3 seconds it delivers a higher voltage and current PULSE to the Battery which wakes it up, and once awake the Charger goes into regular charging. But initially if the battery is in sleep mode the Charger won't even recognize it as I said earlier.
So that is my suggestion to use on the Porsche Battery. The Optimate 271 because the CTEK won't get it woken up quickly at all, we tried that and tested everywhich way on our battery. Let me also state we have not been able to obtain a Porsche Lithium Battery to officially test on since there seems to be no stock in the USA... .but if this Optimate can wake our Antigravity Battery up it can wake anything up since we have a pretty robust BMS.
Last edited by Antigravity; 07-31-2021 at 10:34 PM.
The following 2 users liked this post by Antigravity:
daveo4porsche (07-31-2021),
Schnave (07-31-2021)
08-01-2021, 12:37 AM
#6
Drifting
Hi MItch,
Schnave was correct that the CTEK Charger does not have the ability to actually wake the Porsche Lithium Battery up. In General the Battery Management System (BMS) for a Lithium Battery will go into Protection Mode when it is over highly discharged. This protection mode puts the battery into a SLEEP MODE that requires roughly 12v to be awakened from. But a CTEK and most every Charger on the Market does NOT have the ability to awaken a Lithium Battery immediately out of sleep mode because they are designed for simple charging and maintenance, they do not deliver a sufficiently high voltage/current combo to zap the battery awake when connected to a battery, so you have to do this overnight thing with the CTEK which is not acceptable to most people. But if you can zap the battery awake you can start charging immediately, or awaken it so you can properly jump start it. But just as important is that theses Chargers will often not even recognize a battery is there because the Battery is in Sleep Mode and not putting any voltage to it's terminals so the charger won't even see the Battery, so that is why you have to zap it awake to allow it to permit voltage to the terminals again so the chargers can begin charging.
We actually worked closely with Optimate to make a Charger that will awaken a BMS for a Larger Automotive Lithium Battery like our Antigravity Batteries and the Porsche Lithium Battery. Our Antigravity Battery can awaken Wirelessly, but we also wanted make sure a Charger could do the same thing if the Customer did not have their Keyfob handy. So we worked with Optimate to get a Lithium Charger with a sufficient enough hit of voltage and current to wake up a Lithium Battery that is in Protection Mode.
That model is called the Optimate TM 271. But before you buy make sure you are getting one of the latest models because prior to our testing and working with them the 271 could not do what we asked. But as I understand it they mostly have all new inventory of them in the USA. Just wanted to give you a heads up on that.
Anyway, how this works is, if you hook up this Optimate TM271 to a Lithium Battery in Protection Mode/Sleep Mode, you press a button on the charger and in about 3 seconds it delivers a higher voltage and current PULSE to the Battery which wakes it up, and once awake the Charger goes into regular charging. But initially if the battery is in sleep mode the Charger won't even recognize it as I said earlier.
So that is my suggestion to use on the Porsche Battery. The Optimate 271 because the CTEK won't get it woken up quickly at all, we tried that and tested everywhich way on our battery. Let me also state we have not been able to obtain a Porsche Lithium Battery to officially test on since there seems to be no stock in the USA... .but if this Optimate can wake our Antigravity Battery up it can wake anything up since we have a pretty robust BMS.
Schnave was correct that the CTEK Charger does not have the ability to actually wake the Porsche Lithium Battery up. In General the Battery Management System (BMS) for a Lithium Battery will go into Protection Mode when it is over highly discharged. This protection mode puts the battery into a SLEEP MODE that requires roughly 12v to be awakened from. But a CTEK and most every Charger on the Market does NOT have the ability to awaken a Lithium Battery immediately out of sleep mode because they are designed for simple charging and maintenance, they do not deliver a sufficiently high voltage/current combo to zap the battery awake when connected to a battery, so you have to do this overnight thing with the CTEK which is not acceptable to most people. But if you can zap the battery awake you can start charging immediately, or awaken it so you can properly jump start it. But just as important is that theses Chargers will often not even recognize a battery is there because the Battery is in Sleep Mode and not putting any voltage to it's terminals so the charger won't even see the Battery, so that is why you have to zap it awake to allow it to permit voltage to the terminals again so the chargers can begin charging.
We actually worked closely with Optimate to make a Charger that will awaken a BMS for a Larger Automotive Lithium Battery like our Antigravity Batteries and the Porsche Lithium Battery. Our Antigravity Battery can awaken Wirelessly, but we also wanted make sure a Charger could do the same thing if the Customer did not have their Keyfob handy. So we worked with Optimate to get a Lithium Charger with a sufficient enough hit of voltage and current to wake up a Lithium Battery that is in Protection Mode.
That model is called the Optimate TM 271. But before you buy make sure you are getting one of the latest models because prior to our testing and working with them the 271 could not do what we asked. But as I understand it they mostly have all new inventory of them in the USA. Just wanted to give you a heads up on that.
Anyway, how this works is, if you hook up this Optimate TM271 to a Lithium Battery in Protection Mode/Sleep Mode, you press a button on the charger and in about 3 seconds it delivers a higher voltage and current PULSE to the Battery which wakes it up, and once awake the Charger goes into regular charging. But initially if the battery is in sleep mode the Charger won't even recognize it as I said earlier.
So that is my suggestion to use on the Porsche Battery. The Optimate 271 because the CTEK won't get it woken up quickly at all, we tried that and tested everywhich way on our battery. Let me also state we have not been able to obtain a Porsche Lithium Battery to officially test on since there seems to be no stock in the USA... .but if this Optimate can wake our Antigravity Battery up it can wake anything up since we have a pretty robust BMS.
Last edited by kayjh; 08-01-2021 at 12:38 AM.
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08-01-2021, 03:19 PM
#8
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The original Poster asked about a Charger for his new Cayenne because the Lithium Battery went dead. I recommended a Optimate Charger that has a specific feature to allow Lithium Batteries to wake up from the Protection Modes they go into, then elaborated on what is required to get a Lithium Battery out of its "protection/sleep" mode. This is not a false remedy by any means, this is actually a Modern Charger made by a leading Charger Manufacturer named Optimate, that is designed to do this. Also I too would suggest always taking a Car to the dealer if it is new and has a problem. But the dealer might also just say..."you over-discharged the battery it your fault, so we are going to charge you for this work..." in which case that would be pretty bad.
I was just trying to post something that would allow the original Poster and others who might read this in the future, to know what occurs when a Lithium Battery goes into sleep mode and how to awaken it so you can recharge immediately and drive it without waiting overnight for a CTEK charger to get your Car going again, or call the Dealer who may just try to make some money of this. This is actually a very simple and well known method to awaken a Lithium battery and it cannot fry the Porsche Lithium Battery.
Last, as an FYI the fact is a Lithium Charger that is putting out normal charging voltages up to 14.8v, could never hurt a Lithium Battery that is designed to work with even higher voltage and currents than occur at times from the Alternator/Cars Charging system. The modern hi-quality Chargers are all set to work within parameters that are completely safe for Charging all Lifepo4 Lithium Starter Batteries. Please note that Porsche is simply using a Lithium Battery made by a company (A123 Systems) that has been making Lithium Batteries for many other Cars and applications that Charge fine with Optimate, CTEK and other Lithium Chargers. This is not a special Battery that only Porsche has designed, it works in the same way as every other higher quality Lithium Starter Battery.
The following 2 users liked this post by Antigravity:
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08-01-2021, 03:29 PM
#9
Rennlist Member
A couple of months ago, my PCM didn't completely shut down and the next day I found my Li battery in protection mode. My CTEK couldn't wake it up so I hooked up my micro start and fired it up. Voltage was ~13. Then I hooked up my CTEK and turned off the car. A day later my battery was 100% and no issues since then. IMO, a micro start should be standard equipment for every car with a Li battery.
08-01-2021, 05:29 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
Hi dasams. Your micro-start recommendation got me thinking. My most recent dead battery occurred while parked in my garage and was easily fixed by the jumper cables that I have in every car I own. But what happens when my battery is dead at the airport long-term parking lot at midnight? An Antigravity XP-10 would surely be very useful.
So thanks for the recommendation; I’ll be purchasing one of these soon. I did some research and found that this is sometimes counterfeited and sold on Amazon and eBay. Therefore, I’ll be purchasing directly from Antigravity.
https://antigravitybatteries.com/pro...-starts/xp-10/
So thanks for the recommendation; I’ll be purchasing one of these soon. I did some research and found that this is sometimes counterfeited and sold on Amazon and eBay. Therefore, I’ll be purchasing directly from Antigravity.
https://antigravitybatteries.com/pro...-starts/xp-10/
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Antigravity (08-04-2021)
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08-02-2021, 12:10 AM
#12
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Thread Starter
After a full night under "charge" the battery had received NO charge and the CTEK charger still showed the error light and the lack of any charging. Decided to take a drive and really charge up the system, but the battery was totally dead. This is what the errors on the charger was trying to tell me. So we jump started the car and drove it for several hours. Did not want to stop for fear of it not starting, and tried to run it while fulling up a low tank (dealer's "free" fill only got ot 3/8 full). But, with automatic stopping at stop lights, the car stopped during fueling but started right up again.
Had a wonderful long day of driving and just got home. Put the charger to the battery (using the big battery clips that came with the charger) and the system is charging fine! Thanks to everyone for their great help. I surmise the car came with a low charge from the factory or lost some charge on the slow boat from Germany. Between the dealer using the Accessory switch to demo the car to us and my sitting in the car the next day reading the manual, we just pulled the juice and ran it to zero. I learned a lot and this inexpensive charger actually works under normal conditions.
Had a wonderful long day of driving and just got home. Put the charger to the battery (using the big battery clips that came with the charger) and the system is charging fine! Thanks to everyone for their great help. I surmise the car came with a low charge from the factory or lost some charge on the slow boat from Germany. Between the dealer using the Accessory switch to demo the car to us and my sitting in the car the next day reading the manual, we just pulled the juice and ran it to zero. I learned a lot and this inexpensive charger actually works under normal conditions.
08-02-2021, 10:13 AM
#13
Drifting
After a full night under "charge" the battery had received NO charge and the CTEK charger still showed the error light and the lack of any charging. Decided to take a drive and really charge up the system, but the battery was totally dead. This is what the errors on the charger was trying to tell me. So we jump started the car and drove it for several hours. Did not want to stop for fear of it not starting, and tried to run it while fulling up a low tank (dealer's "free" fill only got ot 3/8 full). But, with automatic stopping at stop lights, the car stopped during fueling but started right up again.
Had a wonderful long day of driving and just got home. Put the charger to the battery (using the big battery clips that came with the charger) and the system is charging fine! Thanks to everyone for their great help. I surmise the car came with a low charge from the factory or lost some charge on the slow boat from Germany. Between the dealer using the Accessory switch to demo the car to us and my sitting in the car the next day reading the manual, we just pulled the juice and ran it to zero. I learned a lot and this inexpensive charger actually works under normal conditions.
Had a wonderful long day of driving and just got home. Put the charger to the battery (using the big battery clips that came with the charger) and the system is charging fine! Thanks to everyone for their great help. I surmise the car came with a low charge from the factory or lost some charge on the slow boat from Germany. Between the dealer using the Accessory switch to demo the car to us and my sitting in the car the next day reading the manual, we just pulled the juice and ran it to zero. I learned a lot and this inexpensive charger actually works under normal conditions.
08-02-2021, 01:07 PM
#14
Rennlist Member
11-05-2021, 12:43 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
In one example, when voltage exceeds 18V, the BMS will place the battery into “sleep with the fishes” mode. Battery Self-Annihilation.
Excerpt below:
The battery control unit, the battery sensor and a contactor are integrated in the lithium-ion battery. This control unit monitors charging and discharging of the battery and opens the contactor in the event of overcharging, exhaustive discharge or overheating, for example, by interrupting the power supply to the battery. As a result, there is no voltage present at the battery terminals.
When the contactor is opened, the vehicle is de-energized. This may be perceived as a battery fault, for example.
Opening conditions for the contactor:
• The contactor opens when the battery voltage drops below 10 V or below 15% state of charge (SoC).
• The contactor opens when the battery voltage exceeds 16 V.
• The contactor opens permanently when the voltage exceeds 18 V. This state is irreversible. The battery must be replaced.
• The contactor opens in the event of overheating or short circuit.
When the contactor is opened, the vehicle is de-energized. This may be perceived as a battery fault, for example.
Opening conditions for the contactor:
• The contactor opens when the battery voltage drops below 10 V or below 15% state of charge (SoC).
• The contactor opens when the battery voltage exceeds 16 V.
• The contactor opens permanently when the voltage exceeds 18 V. This state is irreversible. The battery must be replaced.
• The contactor opens in the event of overheating or short circuit.
Last edited by Schnave; 11-05-2021 at 01:37 PM.
