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-   -   Help deciding between S and GTS (https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-9y0-2019/1256597-help-deciding-between-s-and-gts.html)

rj2014 08-03-2021 08:54 PM

We got our Cayenne S on Sunday evening and already put in about 250 miles on it. I plan on driving a lot over the next couple of weeks to get over with the break-in. Some initial thoughts below:

- The car is amazing. Its got air suspension and rear axle steering along with the sport exhaust. The way this thing handles is incredible. The GTS is obviously going to be more sportier and has a bit more firmer suspension but that does not mean the S is a couch.
- Chassis and suspension tuning on the CS are really really solid. I cannot believe they got an SUV to handle like this. The car feels athletic and you do not get the feeling that you are in a big SUV.
- The car is very quiet and comfortable in comfort mode and feels like a brilliant long distance car. It does not have the noise insulated glass option and I do not want the cabin to be any quieter than this.
- There is some float noticeable in comfort mode but it mostly goes away in sport mode and completely goes away in sport+ mode.
- 21 inch wheels just suit this car better IMO. The ride is very comfortable even with the 21s and the bigger wheels complete the look of the car.
- The V6 twin turbo engine is really good and the sport exhaust sounds amazing. However, you really have to rev it over 4000 rpm in order to get this engine to sing. The car is still under break-in and I am not planning on driving it hard until the first 1000-1500 miles are in. However, I did let it rev to 6-7k rpms a couple of times on some twisty roads and it sounded glorious. I am hoping the exhaust opens up more as I put more miles on it.
- 8 speed transmission is really quick to respond. I have been having a great time using the paddle shifters and the shifts are very quick.
- Low end power is missing but once you get past it, you never feel the lack of power. Highway passing has been effortless.
- Steering is next level in the Porsche. I am so glad I don't have to deal with the Audi steering anymore. I had a love hate relationship with my old car due to this as it was other wise a really good car.
- Club leather is amazing! It just feels leagues above any other car interior I have sat in. We do have two large dogs and they sit in the back seats so we are worried about protecting the leather but I ordered the weather tech seat covers and they should be here soon.
- Massage seats are really nice. Its a must have option if you are getting the 14 way seats. On that note, 14 way seats are some of the most comfortable seats I have ever sat in.
- Bose audio system is decent and is sufficient enough unless you are an audiophile.

Things I wish this car had:
- V8 engine and better low end power.
- Better low end exhaust note ( It is possible that the exhaust opens up more as I put more miles on this)

I am going to post an updated review after I have a few thousand miles on the car but so far, we are very happy with the purchase.

MitchFindlay 08-03-2021 10:28 PM

We took receipt of our "S" model last Tuesday, and had a nice drive Sunday. We too have 250 miles on it. We were told NOT to exceed 4K RPM's for the first 2000 miles of break-in. I exceeded it a couple times too. Hard not to get this up to speed. We too traded in an Audi (A6) and am most impressed with the car, Even the Wife, who is not a car fan, likes the feel and ride of the Porsche. That is a ultimate compliment as she wanted us to get a MB SUV. We did order the insulated glass, but the exhaust noise is just right and not obtrusive. Doubt The Wife would like anything louder.

We originally order Club Leather, but changed and got 21" Platinum colored rims instead. I never got to feel the Club, so am a bit jealous. Did add some Max Pruder 3D floor mats and a Weathertech cargo liner. Adding a wireless charging station next. Lovely car and we both are lucky to own one.

rj2014 08-04-2021 12:01 AM


Originally Posted by MitchFindlay (Post 17587061)
We took receipt of our "S" model last Tuesday, and had a nice drive Sunday. We too have 250 miles on it. We were told NOT to exceed 4K RPM's for the first 2000 miles of break-in. I exceeded it a couple times too. Hard not to get this up to speed. We too traded in an Audi (A6) and am most impressed with the car, Even the Wife, who is not a car fan, likes the feel and ride of the Porsche. That is a ultimate compliment as she wanted us to get a MB SUV. We did order the insulated glass, but the exhaust noise is just right and not obtrusive. Doubt The Wife would like anything louder.

We originally order Club Leather, but changed and got 21" Platinum colored rims instead. I never got to feel the Club, so am a bit jealous. Did add some Max Pruder 3D floor mats and a Weathertech cargo liner. Adding a wireless charging station next. Lovely car and we both are lucky to own one.


Congrats on your new CS. We are indeed incredibly lucky to own one. Even my wife, who is not a car person loves the way the Porsche drives. Her initial choice was a MB SUV too but we quickly wrote that off after a couple of test drives. We have the optional sport exhaust and can always turn it off if the wife finds it too loud.

Those platinum wheels are very nice looking. We have the 21" cayenne exclusive design wheels in high gloss black. We initially wanted to order the black interior as part of our custom order but were also strongly inclined towards the club leather. Only hesitation against the club leather was due to long term maintenance as we have two dogs.The one we found on the dealer lot had the club leather so we just got it that way. Regarding the 4k rpm limit for the first 2k miles, there is a lot of conflicting info out there. Porsche gives those instructions specifically to the US customers but for a lot of European customers, the manual simply says to take it easy for the first 3k kms or so and makes no mention of RPM limit. Regardless, I am going to just take it easy atleast until the first 1.5k miles and then slowly increase the intensity. It is indeed very hard to not rev an engine that loves to rev high.

s85b50 08-04-2021 08:53 AM

You won't miss a V8 when you shift at 6500rpm full throttle in sport or sport plus mode and the exhaust pops some of the loudest bangs heard from V6s.
Do you shift manually?


Originally Posted by MitchFindlay (Post 17587061)
We took receipt of our "S" model last Tuesday, and had a nice drive Sunday. We too have 250 miles on it. We were told NOT to exceed 4K RPM's for the first 2000 miles of break-in. I exceeded it a couple times too. Hard not to get this up to speed. We too traded in an Audi (A6) and am most impressed with the car, Even the Wife, who is not a car fan, likes the feel and ride of the Porsche. That is a ultimate compliment as she wanted us to get a MB SUV. We did order the insulated glass, but the exhaust noise is just right and not obtrusive. Doubt The Wife would like anything louder.

We originally order Club Leather, but changed and got 21" Platinum colored rims instead. I never got to feel the Club, so am a bit jealous. Did add some Max Pruder 3D floor mats and a Weathertech cargo liner. Adding a wireless charging station next. Lovely car and we both are lucky to own one.


MitchFindlay 08-04-2021 09:06 AM

No, I have never touched the manual shifters. Why should I use them and SHOULD I use them during the break=in period? We have two road trips planned this month and next, so we will quickly exceed the miles of break-in.

s85b50 08-04-2021 11:26 AM

It is added fun if you used to drive manual transmission, gives better sense of connection. ZF8, unlike PDK, is not the best in terms of response but better than nothing.

As for whether you should use them when breaking in, Porsche recommends driving at various loads (no heavy throttle application) and rpms not exceeding around 5000 rpm, and it is easiest to do this with manual shifts.


Originally Posted by MitchFindlay (Post 17587551)
No, I have never touched the manual shifters. Why should I use them and SHOULD I use them during the break=in period? We have two road trips planned this month and next, so we will quickly exceed the miles of break-in.


kayjh 08-04-2021 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by s85b50 (Post 17587805)
Porsche recommends driving at various loads (no heavy throttle application) and rpms not exceeding around 5000 rpm, and it is easiest to do this with manual shifts.

I didn't read any of that in my Cayenne manual. Mine says to keep the engine speed below 4,000RPM for the first 2,000KMs. Nothing about various loads, varying engine speeds, etc. But, it couldn't hurt.

rj2014 08-04-2021 11:47 AM


Originally Posted by s85b50 (Post 17587805)
It is added fun if you used to drive manual transmission, gives better sense of connection. ZF8, unlike PDK, is not the best in terms of response but better than nothing.

As for whether you should use them when breaking in, Porsche recommends driving at various loads (no heavy throttle application) and rpms not exceeding around 5000 rpm, and it is easiest to do this with manual shifts.

PDK is definitely better but ZF8 in the Cayenne is very responsive. It has come a long way from the old days.

s85b50 08-04-2021 11:54 AM


Originally Posted by kayjh (Post 17587816)
I didn't read any of that in my Cayenne manual. Mine says to keep the engine speed below 4,000RPM for the first 2,000KMs. Nothing about various loads, varying engine speeds, etc. But, it couldn't hurt.

There is less and less explanation from each generation's manual because people generally like things simple, but Porsche used to teach users not to shift before 3000 rpm to avoid engine lugging, something they no longer bother to explain. 4000 rpm for this engine must be where the load increases exponentially, keeping the engine under a certain load will ensure the block does not see unnecessary metal fatigue.

Like all metals, varying loads and engine rpm result in the engine block to go through plastic deformations and wears relevant to loads (or simply put, break-in). How this wear happens determines the long term health of an engine block, as all metals eventually fatigue. Imagine a steel alloy block with a deep crack in the middle vs a block that is evenly worn out throughout a layer of the span. When a load is applied at the midpoint, the latter would likely show higher compressive strength, all other things kept equal. A well-worn engine would be analogous to an evenly worn block.

Technically speaking, if an engine only sees low load, low rpm situations, it would take a long time to build proper clearances adequate for hard driving to which many Pcar drivers aspire. With various rpms under a certain load , it will ensure the block achieves necessary clearances in a given interval (1200miles).

s85b50 08-04-2021 11:57 AM


Originally Posted by rj2014 (Post 17587852)
PDK is definitely better but ZF8 in the Cayenne is very responsive. It has come a long way from the old days.

Not for me, it struggles with multiple downshifts when hard braking. Upshifts also have a slight dip in torque because it cannot handle full throttle power shifts, neither of which is an issue with PDK/DCT. It is acceptable for an SUV, but I would never pretend this is a sports car with authentic responses.

kayjh 08-04-2021 12:43 PM


Originally Posted by s85b50 (Post 17587870)
There is less and less explanation from each generation's manual because people generally like things simple, but Porsche used to teach users not to shift before 3000 rpm to avoid engine lugging, something they no longer bother to explain. 4000 rpm for this engine must be where the load increases exponentially, keeping the engine under a certain load will ensure the block does not see unnecessary metal fatigue.

Like all metals, varying loads and engine rpm result in the engine block to go through plastic deformations and wears relevant to loads (or simply put, break-in). How this wear happens determines the long term health of an engine block, as all metals eventually fatigue. Imagine a steel alloy block with a deep crack in the middle vs a block that is evenly worn out throughout a layer of the span. When a load is applied at the midpoint, the latter would likely show higher compressive strength, all other things kept equal. A well-worn engine would be analogous to an evenly worn block.

Technically speaking, if an engine only sees low load, low rpm situations, it would take a long time to build proper clearances adequate for hard driving to which many Pcar drivers aspire. With various rpms under a certain load , it will ensure the block achieves necessary clearances in a given interval (1200miles).

Unless one is a Porsche engineer, who really knows what goes on during the break in process?

But I did read an interesting interview of a Porsche engineer on break in, responding to the question of why owners have to break in new cars when it is well known that the factory tests the vehicle engines at full rpm on the test stand before installing them? The answer has to do with temperature. The engineer explained that the parts need time to wear in with each other and that limiting excessive heat during that period allows for a proper wearing in of the parts.

So why doesn't a high speed engine test run damage the engine at the factory? The engineer says it is because during the brief run ups during testing, they don't allow the engine to get to those higher temperatures that would cause the parts to not wear in properly.

There was nothing from the engineer on the topic of varying engine speeds and loads. I can assume that keeping the engine speed below 4,000 rpm while towing a 5,000 boat up a hill would result in increased heat on components (driveline and engine) that would interfere with a proper low temperature wearing in. But there is nothing in the manual on the topic.

Schnave 08-04-2021 01:17 PM


Originally Posted by kayjh (Post 17587984)
But I did read an interesting interview of a Porsche engineer on break in . . .

I saw that article too and found it very informative. Thanks for sharing it. A little further down in the article the engineer does mention the need to vary engine speed. Here’s an excerpt:
​​​​​​​When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.

“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
Here’s a link to the full article:

https://yel.pca.org/porsche-engine-break-in/

kayjh 08-04-2021 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by Schnave (Post 17588060)
I saw that article too and found it very informative. Thanks for sharing it. A little further down in the article the engineer does mention the need to vary engine speed. Here’s an excerpt:
When we do our engine test, the metals inside the engine never reach the temperatures they would when driven on the street since the test session is fairly short. In other words, the bearings, pistons and cylinders never get a chance to thermally expand to their maximum. Therefore, there is little wear on the moving components. But when you drive a car on the street, the engine parts expand considerably more because of the heat being generated from the engine running for an extended period of time. No matter how tight the tolerances are, there is always a slight amount of expansion in the material. The moving parts can wear quickly if exposed to excessive heat and not always in a uniform way. We also constantly vary the speed and allow the engine to run at both high and low RPM’s”.

“Porsche wants the engine to break-in slowly, which means it needs to maintain a lower operating temperature (below 4,000 RPM) and to allow all parts to adjust (wear-in) within their own thermal expansion parameters. This is also the reason why Porsche wants the owner to vary the RPM throughout the break-in period; therefore the engine doesn’t get use to one operating temperature range”.
Here’s a link to the full article:

https://yel.pca.org/porsche-engine-break-in/

Thanks for that clarification. Maybe Porsche should add a bit more detail in the owner's manual.


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