Walked to the dealership today saw a 2020 E3 with engine, transmission on the floor ?
05-17-2021, 01:19 AM
#16
05-17-2021, 01:49 AM
#17
Thanks for your response, I do agree with you but these cars are not that common here in Australia compared to other European brands. So seeing one in this situation with very low Ks did concern me though. Having been owned an X5 previously and gone through annoying suspension rattles and oil leaks(since new) I’m asking these questions to set my expectations and to get general opinion about Porsche owners like everyone else in this forum.
yes it has taken some time for me as I’m still yet to save up...
Anyway, I did call the workshop this morning and found out that particular car has had a minor oil leak although very low kms.
yes it has taken some time for me as I’m still yet to save up...
Anyway, I did call the workshop this morning and found out that particular car has had a minor oil leak although very low kms.
05-17-2021, 09:21 AM
#18
Agree that all manufacturers have issues. My concern with Porsche is that they pride themselves in being above the rest yet they are not. If you closely listen to their ads on TV and print they make it a point to separate themselves in quality. Although it is high it is far from perfect. The problem with many of these forums is that all owners are so proud of what they own that they cannot face any criticism cast upon their pride and joy. Porsche makes great cars for sure bu they are far from perfect. The 911's is the badge of honor for Porsche and they do an almost perfect job with it. The same cannot be said for their more mass-produced Macan, Cayenne and Tycan. There are many issues, most minor but annoying nonetheless. Actually I would say it is the little things that really annoying such as drains being disconnected, trim not properly fitted, paint defects. From a QC point of view I do believe that Porsche has suffered somewhat especially in those items that should be fixed upon inspection and way prior to delivery to the show room and certainly the buyer. This has not been my experience in my last 2 purchased Porsches - Macan and Cayenne - in the past 12 months. Sure blame it on COVID if you wish but it should not happen. And that is a lame excuse. Not sure that you would allow quality lapses in airline safety, for example, due to the virus.
I also believe that there is a significant disconnect between what Porsche automaker does and think about their product and how their US dealers are perceived by a large part of the buying public. Dealers for the most part do not take initial ownership in any issues. For the most part their response first time around is "we have not seen this before". The first thing that a true quality institution does is accept that there may be a problem not try to try to make you ignore it or think that this is just so unusual.
You do have to put things into perspective. Porsche carries a premium for various reasons. So the expectation is, and should be, higher than other brands. Porsche has set that standard on how they want to be portrayed. For the most part and with rare exceptions in some of the Porsche lines, there is a significant blurring of quality among all the European car makers. Porsche has come down closer to the other German car makers with similar mass production lines. I have owned just about all of the brands in the past 40 years.
I can just see the responses from the Porsche committed now!! Be gentle. It is just one man's opinion. There are more serious things happening in our world that are more impactful.
I still do own one Porsche. Wink And an BMW and a MB.
I also believe that there is a significant disconnect between what Porsche automaker does and think about their product and how their US dealers are perceived by a large part of the buying public. Dealers for the most part do not take initial ownership in any issues. For the most part their response first time around is "we have not seen this before". The first thing that a true quality institution does is accept that there may be a problem not try to try to make you ignore it or think that this is just so unusual.
You do have to put things into perspective. Porsche carries a premium for various reasons. So the expectation is, and should be, higher than other brands. Porsche has set that standard on how they want to be portrayed. For the most part and with rare exceptions in some of the Porsche lines, there is a significant blurring of quality among all the European car makers. Porsche has come down closer to the other German car makers with similar mass production lines. I have owned just about all of the brands in the past 40 years.
I can just see the responses from the Porsche committed now!! Be gentle. It is just one man's opinion. There are more serious things happening in our world that are more impactful.
I still do own one Porsche. Wink And an BMW and a MB.
Thanks for your response, I do agree with you but these cars are not that common here in Australia compared to other European brands. So seeing one in this situation with very low Ks did concern me though. Having been owned an X5 previously and gone through annoying suspension rattles and oil leaks(since new) I’m asking these questions to set my expectations and to get general opinion about Porsche owners like everyone else in this forum.
yes it has taken some time for me as I’m still yet to save up...
Anyway, I did call the workshop this morning and found out that particular car has had a minor oil leak although very low kms.
yes it has taken some time for me as I’m still yet to save up...
Anyway, I did call the workshop this morning and found out that particular car has had a minor oil leak although very low kms.
Having owned a lot of European brands, I am impressed with my Cayenne. IMO, the quality is much higher than the other brands I have owned. One item that seems to be a big deal in whether you are happy with a vehicle or not is the service from the dealer. I have been very impressed with both BMW and Porsche in my area. The extra care the dealer takes to make the experience of purchasing one of the vehicles can make or break the impression you get. The Volvo dealership in my area is terrible. Though I liked the XC90 we had in the early 2000's, I would not buy another Volvo because the dealership is sneaky with extra charges that they will remove if you catch, and the poor quality of service under warranty. So far, I haven't experienced any of that from Porsche or BMW.
Last edited by IslandPorsche; 05-17-2021 at 09:23 AM.
05-17-2021, 10:40 AM
#19
Rennlist Member
my new ‘MY 21 Cayenne TurboS eHubrid with 645 miles on it is in the shop right now chasing phantom check engine lights - it’s been there now for 18 days with no sign of progress although dealer/service _IS_ trying - this will be my 3rd Lemon vehicle under california lemon law in 15 years…all vehicle manufacturers have problems - the thing that separates them is how they deal with them…
but if you think your favorite auto maker is “immune” to problems or one is better than the other - you are sadly mistaken - vehicles are all complex mechanical beasts that merge thousands of parts from different suppliers each with their own level of quality control and error rate…statistically there MUST be problems in all fleets otherwise you are simply not paying attention - it is in fact amazing how few actual problems there are given the millions of cars on the road and made each year - it’s a real testimate to the overall quality of 100’s of years of manufacturing evolution - but high quality does not mean zero defects - it means fewer defects per-unit volume - porsche is very very high quality but it is not zero defects…GT3 engine fires, boxster IMB engine bearing problems, my ‘21 Cayenne, stop sales on certain models, and Taycan being bricked while applying factory software updates are just a few well known problems…and if you think BMW is better, let me tell you about the replaced dual clutch transmission with less than 200 miles on the 2011 335is my wife loved but had initial problems with /(and subsequent fuel injector recalls which my dealer tried to charge me for)…
yeah cars a complex, sometimes they are broken, one known case does not tell the whole story, but those are what you hear on the internet…
what will I get when I lemon the Cayenne? another Cayenne, cause I know it’s just one fault, not a trend, but nobody’s perfect.
but if you think your favorite auto maker is “immune” to problems or one is better than the other - you are sadly mistaken - vehicles are all complex mechanical beasts that merge thousands of parts from different suppliers each with their own level of quality control and error rate…statistically there MUST be problems in all fleets otherwise you are simply not paying attention - it is in fact amazing how few actual problems there are given the millions of cars on the road and made each year - it’s a real testimate to the overall quality of 100’s of years of manufacturing evolution - but high quality does not mean zero defects - it means fewer defects per-unit volume - porsche is very very high quality but it is not zero defects…GT3 engine fires, boxster IMB engine bearing problems, my ‘21 Cayenne, stop sales on certain models, and Taycan being bricked while applying factory software updates are just a few well known problems…and if you think BMW is better, let me tell you about the replaced dual clutch transmission with less than 200 miles on the 2011 335is my wife loved but had initial problems with /(and subsequent fuel injector recalls which my dealer tried to charge me for)…
yeah cars a complex, sometimes they are broken, one known case does not tell the whole story, but those are what you hear on the internet…
what will I get when I lemon the Cayenne? another Cayenne, cause I know it’s just one fault, not a trend, but nobody’s perfect.
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05-17-2021, 11:24 AM
#20
…all vehicle manufacturers have problems - the thing that separates them is how they deal with them…
it’s a real testimate to the overall quality of 100’s of years of manufacturing evolution - but high quality does not mean zero defects - it means fewer defects per-unit volume - porsche is very very high quality but it is not zero defects…
yeah cars a complex, sometimes they are broken, one known case does not tell the whole story, but those are what you hear on the internet…
it’s a real testimate to the overall quality of 100’s of years of manufacturing evolution - but high quality does not mean zero defects - it means fewer defects per-unit volume - porsche is very very high quality but it is not zero defects…
yeah cars a complex, sometimes they are broken, one known case does not tell the whole story, but those are what you hear on the internet…
Quality controls have improved tremendously since the use of the Toyota manufacturing and QC methodology adopted in many industries. I would expect that 100% of the obvious problems be identified in their process. For example: disconnected drain tubes, obvious paint defects, ill fitting or missing trim pieces, etc. Maybe not less obvious issues with engines but these should also be minimal. If you look through these forums, also BMW, MB, and Audi, there are many complaints that should not have to be made if their quality met expectations.
05-17-2021, 05:16 PM
#22
I trust these "surveys" as much as I trust Consumer Reports. Not much. JDP asks tons of questions and are not weighed in any manner. The overall score is the same as saying that anyone can drown in a lake of average depth of 2 inches. I strongly believe that all car manufacturers, Porsche included, could and should significantly improve their QC on all of their cars that are delivered to the buyer. Much of it now is electronics and there should be simple and comprehensive testing methods for all of that related to microchips. Certainly the visual items like paint, trim, etc should be easily detected by human inspection or robots dedicated to that task. Bottom line it is easier to just pass it along and make the buyer sweat it out.
05-17-2021, 05:39 PM
#23
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Yeah those surveys are sort of suspect. No issues with Lexus being on top though, from past experience they're all built like a frigging tank and last for much longer than you'd ever want to keep that car.
I do agree that 911 models usually have better reliability than Cayenne/Macan. Maybe it's just me but you just hear about less issues with them.
I do agree that 911 models usually have better reliability than Cayenne/Macan. Maybe it's just me but you just hear about less issues with them.
05-17-2021, 10:15 PM
#24
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My previous-gen Cayenne Turbo needed an engine out for oil-air separator replacement. A cheap part failed but labour cost was 3K or so.
But I unfortunately I have to agree with some of the concerns here - my 2019 Cayenne Turbo is the least reliable Porsche I have owned. My previous gen Turbo had 4 repairs (infotainment freeze, air suspension leak, oil separator, e-diff actuator motor) and one recall in 10 years. This one already had 2 repairs and 1 recall in 2 years, and my friend's 2020 model had 3 repairs and 1 recall in 1 year.
I wish all Porsches were like my 991.2 Turbo S - nothing ever went wrong in 3.5 years of year-round driving and track use.
But I unfortunately I have to agree with some of the concerns here - my 2019 Cayenne Turbo is the least reliable Porsche I have owned. My previous gen Turbo had 4 repairs (infotainment freeze, air suspension leak, oil separator, e-diff actuator motor) and one recall in 10 years. This one already had 2 repairs and 1 recall in 2 years, and my friend's 2020 model had 3 repairs and 1 recall in 1 year.
I wish all Porsches were like my 991.2 Turbo S - nothing ever went wrong in 3.5 years of year-round driving and track use.
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daveo4porsche (05-17-2021)