Transfer case
 

Wanted to add my statistic to the Transfer Case failure list. My 2013 CS was coming to the end of the Porsche Warranty period after 3 years and approx 30k miles. Thought a check up would be prudent and mentioned to dealer that a slight thumping sound from car in 2nd gear, thought at first it was uneven road but happened too often on different surfaces.

Pleased I asked them to check because turned out TC was failing and was replaced under warranty (day before it expired) :thumbsup:

Dealer noticed my front tires were more worn than rear but didn't mention this might be a factor in TC failure, just tried to sell me two new ones.

Thanks! If you're a member at RennTech - please do go add the info to: https://www.renntech.org/forums/topi...er-case-fluid/

We're trying to keep track of failed TC's.

You might also consider posting the info on: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-replaced.html - another repository for failed transfer-cases.

Done (reported on RennTech).
=Steve

Cross posting this from 6Speed .... Adding my TC failure and Dealer replacement (with the new vent line) on my 2012 Cayenne S to this building data base. Mine was covered under CPO in January 2017. I posted up a thread on my symptoms and my eventual resolution at: https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...yenne-s-2.html

I had ~53k on the clock and I posted up a pic of the paperwork on the "Post your Repair/Warranty List Here" sticky on RL. Is there an additional site to catalogue these failures (I'm not a member on RennTech)? I just want to make sure that my stat gets added to this astonishingly long list of failures ...

Is it known what MY the new design vent system was installed?

No. I suspect it probably only went into production with perhaps the 2017 models. No way to really tell since the vent can't be seen or felt from under the car, and I don't know what I'd be looking for in the engine compartment.

I've mentioned this already in another thread somewhere here in Rennlist, but my '11 CTT had it's first TC replaced at around 31k miles when still owned by the original owner. Then I just had it replaced again at 60k miles.

Mine's had the two service campaigns associated with the AWD and E-diff reprogramming completed. I'll see when I pick it up later this week if the new transfer case they've installed got the new vent kit as well this time. I'm told that the new transfer case is an updated/revised version. When I get it back I'll compare the part # on this invoice to the previous one done at 31k miles to see if that's different.

And BTW, my vehicle is far from abused or being driven overly aggressive in case anyone is wondering if that may have been a contributing factor. It's not.

UPDATE - back from dealer
 

I mentioned I'd report back when I got my CTT back from service regarding the 2nd transfer case replacement.

As mentioned before, the 1st replacement was at around 31k miles when in possession of the first/original owner. It has now been replaced a 2nd time at 61k. Covered by warranty in both instances.

So comparing the two service tickets, the part #s seem to confirm what the SA told me regarding updated hardware. The part #s for the transfer case is different from what it was when replaced the first time (June 2013). There's also a number of other misc. parts listed this time that were not on the 2013 invoice, including the new transfer case vent kit.

The first transfer case was part # 958-341-010-FX. This new one is 958-341-011-EX. The tech noted on the invoice "Recommend: transfer case and update parts". The other parts listed are as follows:

1 N-103-284-01 Line Bracket
1 958-301-047-10 Vent Line Transfer
1 N-107-873-01 Spacer Ring
1 02H-409-275-A Sleeve
1 958-341-375-01 Protective Ring Tran
1 WHT-005-158 O-Ring
1 958-349-491-10 Circlip Transfer Box

With the first replacement in 2013, the only other part listed on the invoice in addition to the transfer case itself was ten WHT-003-211 12-point screws 10x50.

Hope this info might help others. Vehicle is running great now, SMOOTH on accel.

CarGuyNVA - thanks - added to the list I'm keeping over on RennTech.. https://www.renntech.org/forums/topi...comment-287227

Perfect, thank you. :)

May be a stupid question, but out of curiosity, does the transfer case issue occur with the CTTS? Or how about those with ptv?

ive read a few threads and had not seen a CTTS mentioned but that could just be that there are far fewer of them. Also wasn't sure if the folks who get ptv tourqe vectoring are also affected or if it's that's two completely different mechanical parts

I have seen mention of a failed XFerCase on a CTTS with torque-vectoring. So - yeah, it happens.

g8tor20, ... even though mine is not a CTTS, it is a CTT with PTV (& PDCC). My TC started failing at 43k miles. No idea if PTV has any impact on or with, but I did mention that thought in one of my prior posts too. I doubt the CTTS TC is immune.

Mine has the PU5 Sport Pkg which includes PTV+. And as you can see from the posts above, mine has had two replacements, the most recent containing updated hardware. So I'm hoping that's it and it's solved once and for all this time around. Time will tell.

I believe the only 958 that may be 'immune' is the diesel model? I think it uses a different transfer case.

I don't think diesels are immune from the transfer case issue. The departure from a low range option transfer case in the 958 model leas to a redesign of the TC.

Hindsight shows that the design needs work. Mercedes also have this problem with the GL(X164)/ML(W164) models as well.

Interesting. I see you have a Cayenne Diesel listed in your sig. Has your CD had to have a TC replacement?

Mine also has PTV+ and ate both TC and diff at 31k miles. CPO covered all of it.

I am the second owner and don't have all records from first owner. Since it has warranty until 100K miles, I don't think about it much.

It makes a humming noise when downshifting at low speeds. Not sure if it is the transmission or diff or TC.

The diesel and hybrid use a different case, and so far - I have seen no mention of a failure of those cases. They use 50/50 torque distribution, unlike the gas engine 32/68. If anyone can point me to a failure I'm all ears.

And besides Mercedes, BMW has problems with their transfer-cases. Generally chain stretch apparently, causing horrible klunking noises.

2014 CTTS with 21k miles - dealer just replaced the TC under warranty. Same as all the other Cayenne models just not nearly as many of them on the road.

thanks guys for the clarification!

Here is the latest compilation of failures and fixes. The listings were sourced from 3 different forums - so not all user names are on this forum, nor are they necessarily the same here as where I found them.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b03fb7cef0.jpg


As can be seen - Porsche's fix under warranty is simply to replace the case. In all the cases listed where the owner changed the fluid - the transfer cases started behaving normally. There may be two different failure modes going on - low mileage ones being a defective case/clutch; - high mileage ones being contaminated/worn fluid.

Latest update as of 05/02/17:


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...535c796f5f.jpg

Great Listing Don!
 

Maybe I am just speculating but I don't see a 2011 CS with a TC problem just the CTT. I am hoping for the best because my '11 CS is has over 40k miles.

Is the '11 CTT over-torquing the TC?

Is the TC failures random or linked to a particular failure? :grr:

Are the clutch packs manufactured by multiple vendors? :banghead:

Am I just lucky right now? :thumbup:

Just my unpremeditated thoughts!

I wish you the best on that.. but I suspect as they age and get miles on them - more early models will be added to the list.

Just a WAG for me. There is a different calibration of some sort for the different models, different PN's on the transfer cases - but from some looking I did, it appears all the V8's used the same PN.

I'd also suggest besides hoping it continues working fine - you be proactive and change the "lifetime" fluid before it reaches the end of it's life. Like now. Pound of prevention sort of thing..

Any thoughts yet on what that change interval should be? Obviously I just got a new TC installed, so the fluid is nice and new, but what about as time goes on... Annually? Some other time-based interval? Or mileage based interval perhaps? I'm thinking with average mileage and usage (whatever that really is), changing it every other year might do it (?) Sort of like Porsche recommends for the brake fluid flush, every two years.

My suggestion is - every other oil change. And adjust it up or down based on what it looks like next time that it's changed. If it is dark and has any burned smell to it - shorten up the interval. If it remains clear - then you can lengthen the interval.

A conversation this past weekend with an SA from a local dealer (who will remain nameless) indicated they'd done a fair number of Cayenne transfer case replacements. And that moisture corrupting the fluid was a considerable influence. Fixing and then raising the vent have been two tactics employed to try and reduce it, but he did not know if that was sufficient or not. As yet they haven't done any replacement of TCs previously replaced AND having had the raised vent tube fix. He indicated that while Cayenne TCs are readily available, Macan transfer cases are back-ordered for them.

He mentioned two ways to know of you've got TC problems. One was the usual, go somewhere quiet and smooth, like a parking garage, open the windows and listen for clicking and the feel of skipping during turns. Just regular turns, not ones at full lock.

That and get all four wheels off the ground on a lift and manually turn one. If you hear TC case clicking then it'll need replacing.

As for clicking/sluggishness under power, disconnect the wiring connector into the TC and if the noise stops then it's due for TC replacement. Obviously you should not continue driving with it disconnected.

He did not seem to think there was an immediate end in sight for this problem.

Interesting, appreciate the additional info. The recent replacement for mine included the new vent kit, and I also noted that the part # has changed for the transfer case versus what it was previously. I hope with these new revisions the issue is finally fixed, but time will tell.

My SA mentioned (about a week and a half ago) that Cayenne TCs have been on back order too from time to time, in addition to the Macan units.

Here's hoping for the best this time around!

When I look at the 'All-wheel drive' module in my 2017 using a BT dongle and the EZ-Diag android app it reports and number of bits of info, along with having several variables it can show or graph in real time. I'm open to suggestions as to which, if any, values would be most interesting to track over time (or during what kinds of conditions).

I've yet to have anything happening that's repeatable, so it's not like I can collect logs during a specific event. I've yet to come across anything that'd lend itself to long-term logging without being a huge hassle to set up every time.

Here's some pixs, as the app doesn't lend itself to dumping info (and I forgot to use screencaps):
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...1740cd6149.png
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c89ee58e4f.jpghttps://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c51d41d581.jpghttps://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0002e42fd0.jpghttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...001be6a2e5.jpghttps://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...de50955bb3.jpghttps://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3d40e9c530.jpghttps://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...948ffe4da2.jpghttps://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...063338a09b.jpghttps://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...1f495285f7.jpghttps://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0c93bf8d2f.jpg

Yikes! That's a lot of stuff.

When you say "the 'All-wheel drive' module in my 2017", is the data presented related to various components comprising the AWD drivetrain, or just the transfer case alone?

V40 is the item to monitor. When it exceeds 145 kWh the tc oil should be changed. My CD is going in for service soon. I plan to have the tc oil changed, V40 read and reset and an oil sample sent to Blackstone. I realize I have a CD but I'm interested to see if my car has the tc remote vent.

It's from the 'all-wheel drive' module. Which, I'm assuming (based on no facts) is the transfer case. There's a whole other module for the transmission.

Ok, now I at least have a baseline figure for the current date and mileage. I'll check it now and then to see how the number changes.

This is nothing, there's literally hundreds of variables involved on the various in-vehicle networks. Seats, windows, hvac, drivetrain, keys, airbags, electrical management, fuel, etc. I know enough to be aware of this, but not what all of them actually represent.

Interesting comment on his part. Pretty much confirms what I surmised looking at how the re-venting was being done.

Did you happen to ask him if they'd tried fluid changes on ones that had been moisture corrupted?

The 145 kWh is the number Porsche uses. It's in the factory manual. I would suggest by the time it's hit 145 kWh it's already in trouble. Mine was about half that number or less with 70,000+ miles on a CTT. And behavior was improved by changing the oil.

Interesting..

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3d40e9c530.jpg


https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...bfc8796c7a.jpg
(Image from the demo software)

On the older version of the software - ICarScan - at the bottom of the screen is also an option for "Reports" - which generates a text report of the info displayed on the screen. It can be called up from the software main menu - or it can be mailed to someone and opened with a plain text reader. Also the option to "Record" will record the selected values which can later be plotted.

There is a Reports option in the Android version. You have to Save first and then the Share icon becomes selectable. That allows sending a PDF to anything the Share feature supports. With mine I sent it as a PDF to my e-mail account.

Like this report showing 2 DTC codes from the AC system:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...afd437c0ce.png

The one thing I don't see in these is any kind of timestamp as to when the condition occurred. I don't know of the system tracks that or not. But the app doesn't appear to be extracting it. It'd be helpful to know that.

Given this is a 'generic' app, targeted across many vehicle brands, it's not a surprise to find it might not be able to do everything an actual PIWIS system can. Anyone know for sure if PIWIS can extract a timestamp for a DTC?

I should point out that the dash shows no error lights regarding these. I've no idea what these mean, and I'm not having any trouble getting any of the AC systems to function. I do realize, of course, that DTCs don't necessarily mean there's an active problem, just that something, at some point, tripped it.

The 8320 may well have come about as I was finding circuits to attach an inline 12v-USB converter. I noticed other DTCs that were surely related to when I was testing a key/remote feature module patched in-between the harness and the module in the liftgate.

How does one get a DTC report on the dash? Is it even possible? In other vehicles there were ways, like turning the ignition from off-run-off-run-off-run--pause and then it'd list DTCs. Anything like that in the 958 series?

Interesting to note the Porsche download is version on Android is 21.81, but it's 20.71. The EZ Diag app version is the same; 6.1.0 on both Android and IOS.

Is there any kind of 'enthusiast' web forum for these apps and their modules? I have to imagine there's got to be some others fighting with this program and the modules. Because going direct to the purchaser is not producing very timely nor helpful progress.

Also, are these not actually compatible with all the other OBD apps out there? I've used the Torque Pro app on Android for ages and I'm suprised to find it won't communicate with this dongle.

Tangentially, the dongle came in two pieces; an orange one with two LEDs (nothing else, no buttons or connectors) and a black male-female plug. It works with just the orange module plugged into the OBD port. Is the black piece just a socket extender? Having it plugged in-between the module and the port doesn't make any detectable difference.

To better see the LEDs I've taken to using a right-angle OBD cable:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3941e1f6b7.jpg

When I search the IOS AppStore nothing comes up for icarscan (in neither iPad nor iPhone categories).

My dealer wants $300 to change TC fluid so I'll do it myself. They also want $500 to add the vent kit. The service adviser said I should wait for TC failure and then I would get the vent kit installed at no charge as part of TC replacement.

My CD is approaching 30K miles, no symptoms.

Yeah - dealers do charge a bit don't they? You can do it using Genuine Porsche Fluid (tm) for about $60 if you have even the very slightest mechanical ability. It's about the easiest thing to do on a Cayenne. The fill and drain plugs are right out there in the open waiting for you to drain and fill the case. You can do it even cheaper (about $15) if you want to go the Mutol route. As best I could see with the vent kit - it requires R&R of the transfer case to install. The vent fitting on top of the clutch housing is about impossible to reach from underneath the car even with it up on a lift.

Don, based on your previous posts I have the latest Porsche fluid on order from Sunset. What should the drain & fill plugs be tightened to?
I agree it looks straightforward to do the fluid change. I'll send a sample to Blackstone. Thanks for all your efforts to document folks experiences with their transfer cases.

Rob

Rob - snug. Someone found 17nm or 13 ft lb in their manual - which is just snug. These are tapered plugs - if you over-tighten them you stand a chance of cracking the case.

Be very interested in what Blackstone has to say..

Your CD TC failed or just doing preventative? I thought CD TCs are different than V8, TT , GTS and V6 TCs.

My CD transfer case seems to be fine. I just wanted to change the oil in it to see what state it is in.

Using Durametric Pro to read transfer case V40
 

Are there any tricks to getting the Durametric to display the transfer case value V40? I updated the software to 6.5.3.6 but under the all wheel drive menu it says communications error. Tried the car "on" and with car running, no joy. I can read out other items not from the AWD menu like engine management, etc. Any tips would be appreciated.

Thanks

I was in a parking lot the other day and heard a slight ticking under acceleration. Must be my transfer case crying.

Question: Would changing my fluid out this weekend solve the clicking or am I too late?

Question that I hope hasn't been answered already. I'm looking at 2013 that is just out of warranty and is not CPO. Soooo, I may be taking a risk with it (but of course the purchase price reflects such)...but is there a way for the PPI inspection shop to test the transfer case at the shop?

The case seems to be the largest unknown with used 958.1s...so I want to be sure I check that aspect. At the very least, I'll change out the fluid.

Nevermind...just saw this back on an earlier page.

Please keep in mind that this issue is not isolated to the 958.1 gen, it effects all 958s to include 958.2s as well. The only 958s exempt from the issue appear to be the diesel and hybrid models due to a different TC used for those models (because their PTM systems are different).

Changed my tc fluid today. Feel better now knowing that's done.

What kind of a torque wrench could be used to torque the fill plug and would fit in the area of the fill plug? I'm not sure how tight is "snug" and am afraid of over-tightening.

I have a 2016 Cayenne S eHybrid and plan to change the TC fluid at 20Kmi with whatever OEM fluid part number the stealership sells (since I don't know whether the hybrid TC takes the same fluid as the non-hybrid TCs). I will also send the oil to blackstone for analysis.

Don mentioned someone found a torque spec of 13 ft/lbs which most larger torque wrenches probably can't do accurately. The other choice would be to go to an inch pound torque wrench. 13 ft/lbs is 156 inch/pounds. Over tightening can crack the case.

Today I had the transfer case fluid changed in my 2015 Cayenne Diesel to ward off evil spirits. The fluid had 30K miles on it and was a bit darker than the new fluid. I supplied the latest fluid ( P/N 000 043 305 63 ) to the dealer since they didn't have it in stock. The value of V40 was 11070 whatever that means. My car is equipped with a transfer case bearing P/N 958 341 020 03 which is believed to be unique to the diesel and hybrid Cayennes. The tech told me they have not had to replace transfer cases on the diesels and the hybrids. The transfer cases on gas powered cars were not as well behaved..... It had no vent line installed. I will send off the sample to Blackstone and post the results when they are available.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...7156455753.jpg

If you get a TC replacement at a P dealer now, they install the new vent kit. Was just done to mine.

Understood. My dealer wanted $500 to put the vent kit in, suggesting I wait for failure of the TC and it would come along for the ride free.

The tech told me the first fluid that came out was darker than the remainder of the fluid. It was likely the dirt collected at the bottom of the TC.

For the next time my transfer case fluid needs to be changed I picked up a set of Gear Wrench 81160 stubby hex metric bits for 1/4 inch drive:

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a3934ef93d.jpg

What kind of 1/4" drive torque wrench do you use with those stubby hex metric bits? Is there enough space between the transfer case fill plug and car frame to maneuver the torque wrench with hex bit into the plug to get it torqued down properly?

I planned to use the Harbor Freight 1/4 inch torque wrench with the stubby hex bits. You can get one for as low as $13 when on sale. My plans changed when I couldn't get Durametric to read the V40 value that logs gear oil usage. I had the dealer change the transfer case oil and reset V40. On my 2015 CD there was plenty of room to access the drain and fill plugs unlike the photos posted here where folks had to trim down an allen wrench to gain access. YMMV. Recall that the diesel and the hybrid cars use a different transfer case than the gas cars.

Transfer case P/N on my CD = 958 341 020 03

The transfer case drain and fill plugs can easily be accessed on the gasoline engine models. No special wrench is needed. They are probably the easiest plugs to get to on a 958.

Here is a photo of the 1/4 inch Harbor Freight torque wrench. It goes up to 200 inch/lbs.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...875308ba15.jpg

Macans too apparently.... https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...l#post14239058

When I had my CTT in for the TC replacement recently, my SA did mention they've been seeing it in the Macans too.

Tech at a local VA dealer indicated Cayenne transfer cases are much more readily available than for the Macan.

Yep, exactly. The SA at my dealer (also VA) said that Macan TCs were on back order. And it wasn't long ago that Cayenne TCs were on back order too, but I guess they've caught up on that supply.

Just found this tread.

My TC was changed back in January as you could fell some "kicks" from the drive train when starting from rest, especially in traffic.

2014; CTT (with PTV & PDCC); 38000 km (23,000 miles); Quebec, Canada; AT; Porsche OEM; Aigle836; TC replaced under warranty.

I see that they added the vent line transfer and the new TC is 9583341010HX.

Dealer had the TC in stock and was done the same day. Looked like it was quite a common repair....

Yep, had the same done to my '11 CTT (PDCC & PTV+) just recently as well. I sure hope the TC with the new part # and the vent kit prevent this from happening again, but we'll see over time.

Although you appear to have a different part # listed for your new TC versus the one for mine. Maybe this has to do with yours being a different model years perhaps? Here's some info from a previous post earlier in this thread following my service at the dealer...

The first transfer case was part # 958-341-010-FX. This new one is 958-341-011-EX. The tech noted on the invoice "Recommend: transfer case and update parts". The other parts listed are as follows:

1 N-103-284-01 Line Bracket
1 958-301-047-10 Vent Line Transfer
1 N-107-873-01 Spacer Ring
1 02H-409-275-A Sleeve
1 958-341-375-01 Protective Ring Tran
1 WHT-005-158 O-Ring
1 958-349-491-10 Circlip Transfer Box

Best of luck with yours.

I got the Blackstone report back on my transfer case oil that had ~30K miles of service. No problems seen.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5d23d9888b.jpg

I have had the same problem on my 2013 Cayenne S (under CPO ~ 66,000):

Symptoms: low RPM and hard pull hesitation, lapse in power, "thumping," etc. as described by others. Initially the problem only occurred sporadically but became an every drive occurrence and then, near the end, a cause for significant alarm while operating. Just before the fix was installed, I could not rely on the car to accelerate when needed.

PROBLEM: Bad Transfer Case, most likely due to over-heating due to an initial failed design.

Explanation: With the transfer case out, the car fights itself between all wheel drive, various distributions of power to the wheels, etc. causing the violent, yet not catastrophic, symptoms listed above.

Fix: Replace the Transfer Case with a new unit that has been adapted with ventilation.

Background: The gentlemen at Perfection Plus Auto (the service department of the now-closed Porsche dealership in Little Rock) diagnosed the issue within 45 seconds of driving my Cayenne--without even having to leave the parking lot.

(And, BTW if one lives in Little Rock or Central Arkansas, you will not find more down-to-earth, Porsche-loving enthusiasts/technician/owners than the guys AT PPA — I cannot recommend them enough — all active members of PCA)

They reported to me that, regrettably, they have seen problems on Cayennes and Macans — across all model years (including 2017). Apparently, this is a very, very common issue with the SUV.

Upon reflection, it seems extremely odd—and troubling given the Diesel issues of the last few years—that Porsche has neglected to move forward with mandatory re-call on this part. The technicians I spoke with at two different garages have a constant stream of Cayennes and Macans entering for the fix. The problem is due to a defective part, not user error nor regular wear and tear.

What is further troubling is that there is no way for the service department to detect this problem with their computers, which is normal protocol during servicing. Rather than driving the car to diagnose an issue, the service department relies on error messages from the onboard computer and/or an alarm code that is read by their computer system hooked to the vehicle. In other words, there is no way to identify the problem unless the owner knows about the transfer case issue or has the time to take the car and demand that the service department drive the car with the owner. Fortunately, in my area, I have access to an expert who has a passion for the brand and is a heck of guy — he was able to volunteer his time, explain the issue to me in unambiguous terms, put me on the right track for the repair under warranty. However, although the issue expressed itself intermittently over the past 2 years, none of the actual Porsche dealerships where my car was services diagnosed or even were alerted to the Transfer Case failure.

Due to the volume of Transfer Case failures across multiple model years (I have read of issues as far back as 2008) and the troubling issue of loss of power, Porsche could be looking at a major liability if there is a severe accident or fatality due to this known—yet unaddressed—issue (I am thinking of the Audi break scare of the 80s, which scarred that brand for a decade). I certainly would never wish harm to anyone and certainly not to Porsche—a brand I adore, admire and enjoy—however, I perceive a major oversight in quality control. Given this, I have to wonder — what other issues might express themselves with the car?

Now saying all of THAT….I have no intention of de-acquisitioning my Cayenne. I love the car. I love the engine. I love the sound, feel, look of it (its the closest one can come to falling in love with an inanimate object) and plan to keep it until it falls apart or I am put in the ground (that or I upgrade to a GTS or Turbo S). However, I do hope that Porsche becomes more aggressive in resolving this issue with other customers. For me, it was a 1-day investment covered by the warranty. However, had I waited another 4 months, I would have been out several thousands dollars for the replacement part and labor.

I am attaching my service ticket with associated replacement parts in the hope that it will prove useful for other owners who are experiencing similar concerns.

As I have seen this issue on multiple boards, I am posting in several locations, including:

https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...terchange.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...er-case-4.html

https://www.renntech.org/forums/topi...se-oil-change/

https://www.renntech.org/forums/topi...case-failures/

https://www.6speedonline.com

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...e18d25d341.png

A recall would presumably have to involve having found the cause and established a specific fix. I'm of the impression that they've not yet fully nailed down what causes it, or how to totally prevent it from happening again. Thus no replacement service campaign, yet.

My TC was replaced in january 958-341-010-HX. I am going to check with my dealer to see if this part number had the update for adding a vent line.

Anyone have the workshop instructions for the vent line installation?

Based on the receipt I see, the vent parts are:

958-301-047-10 Vent line
N-103-284-01 Line bracket
N-107-873-01 Spacer Ring

In addition to the parts you mention for the vent line kit, there's also some other updated parts to include a 'Protective Ring Tran' which as I understand is a sort of splash shield for the transfer case.

Also there seems to be a new/updated part # now for the replacement transfer case being currently installed. See the part #s listed for my recent TC replacement:

My first transfer case was part # 958-341-010-FX. This new one is 958-341-011-EX. The tech noted on the invoice "Recommend: transfer case and update parts". The other parts listed are as follows:

1 N-103-284-01 Line Bracket
1 958-301-047-10 Vent Line Transfer
1 N-107-873-01 Spacer Ring
1 02H-409-275-A Sleeve
1 958-341-375-01 Protective Ring Tran
1 WHT-005-158 O-Ring
1 958-349-491-10 Circlip Transfer Box

My TC is failing and the local specialist that I use (Bay Area) was going to replace it for me. Unfortunately they just couldnt get one ordered and delivered! Waited weeks and the delivery time just got longer and longer and then unconfirmed! The specialist called a number of dealers as well as PNA for updates on this and got some troubling information.

So many are failing and they had such a backlog that they couldnt get a confirmed delivery! In fact, they were hearing that even replaced units were failing and customers were getting 2 or more! However, since the parts are from Porsche direct, they are covered by a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty - so any failure would be replaced free of charge - just inconvenient.

We actually decided to not replace at this point and to wait - flush the TC fluids regularly and delay things a little. That way we can make sure that any replacement is with a rectified unit that is going to last. A TC is supposed to last hundreds of thousands of miles with limited but routine maintenance. Less than 100,000 miles is a joke and I certainly dont want to be staring down the barrel of $4000 in a couple of years time!

I really hope they get on top of this and make sure that this is fixed. From what the specialists were able to get out of Porsche, they suggest it was a bad batch from the manufacturer, who is sorting it out. But without knowing what is bad, why and how they fix it - its all just rumor and conjecture I am afraid.

What was the result of changing the TC oil? So far - 10 out of 10 people who have done have resolved the problems they had. That's with higher mileage problems.

Low mileage problems may be due to contamination (from splashed water on the top vent on the case) or defective machining of the clutch assembly. If it's either of these - the TC probably has to be replaced. Contamination with water will cause rust - probably in the clutch assembly. Defective machining of the clutch assembly will cause erratic operation of the clutch - ie - not smooth and can only be fixed by replacement.

I suspect Porsche has a better handle on what the problem(s) are - but so far their only responses have been the vent kit (which can only be fitted with the TC out) to prevent contamination, and a change in the TC fluid (which may just be due to a vendor change - or could be something significant.)

So far the result is ok. Only done a few hundred miles since so can't really tell. I was suffering a little noise when coming off the the gas which indicated premature wear. When the car is off the ground and doing the tests there was more noise. Nothing bad, but an indication that something is going wrong slowly.

The specialist is a bit of a perfectionist so I do tend to tread carefully, but they said it wasn't that bad at this stage. A flush of the fluid and there is much less noise than before. Hard to tell because I need a smooth road and there aren't that many in CA! But so far it's definitely much quieter.

I am just under the 100k miles though so I guess I am a little higher than normal. But there should be no reason that any transmission parts would be wearing out at this stage in this type of car with this type of gear box. I am hoping it is fine for a bit and I am due for an oil change in a month or so. They will flush the fluid again and check if there is any additional damage.

Had to swallow $4k for a front diff just a month or so ago. So it better last some time before it needs replacing. Can't afford these repair costs!!!!

Offagain - thanks for the feedback. That makes 11 out of 11.. that have been helped by a fluid change. I suspect if they flush the fluid again it will be fine for a long time.

On my 90k mile 2011 CTT. I was experiencing some slipping from a stop and a jerking when downshifting 4-3 on occasion.

First I changed the TC fluid and used the expensive Porsche branded fluid. It was immediately better, but after 1,000 miles it was slowing starting to show signs of slipping and jerking. No crunching noises, nor abrupt jerking before or after the fluid change.

I changed the fluid a second time using the Ravenol TC fluid ($30 amazon). After the Ravenol change, things improved immediately. And became perfect after approx. 200 miles. It is now operating as it should with fast acceleration from a stop, smooth up/down shifting and all together better.

Just a data point that it took 2 changes for mine to be cured. And I had better luck with Ravenol.

Out of curiosity, are you folks changing the fluid yourself or taking it in to a shop?

People say it's easy so I'm debating changing mine when it comes in. I'm not usually a DIYer.

12 out of 12.

I have some Ravenol in the garage. It's probably a case of some residual contamination (clutch lining wear particles) still in the clutch after the first change - and they eventually get washed out into the new oil - but it could also be Ravenol works better.

I'm going to change it again at my next oil change. As far as a DIY - it really IS easy, especially if you have air suspension - you can do it from underneath without the need for a lift or ramps. It's two plugs.

First remove the fill plug (so you're certain you CAN refill it after draining it), then the drain plug (have a container under it capable of holding at least 1 liter of fluid - more will result in less splash). Let it drain.

Replace the drain plug, refill until fluid runs out the fill plug hole, then put the fill plug back in.

The plugs should not be tightened too tight - they go in snug and have sealant on them.

Done. Go out and enjoy it.

if you can turn a hex wrench. Meaning able to rotate your wrist, then you can change the tc oil. The revenol container has its own tubing so you don't even need a pump.

If you're skinny or have the air suspension then you don't even need to jack up the SUV.

Takes 10mins max.

being a bit of an idiot, where are the drain plugs for the TC? Anyone got a picture or something?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a5c0e58e6a.jpg

Should be rather obvious..

Just make sure you loosen the fill plug first so you know you can refill it before draining it. Plan on about 0.8 Liters of oil (800cc) draining out. Fill capacity IIRC is 850cc. You fill it until oil starts coming out of the fill hole. Then it's "full"..

And the case is right under the vehicle, almost dead center behind the engine/transmission.

BTW - you may want to read: https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...-replaced.html

So far - 12 out of 12 transfer cases where the oil was changed (higher mileage ones > 50k miles) have been "improved".. so far none have reverted to their bad behavior - although in a few cases - a second change some time after the first change was needed for optimal results.

Please let us know your results - I'm keeping score. Batting 1000 so far.

2012 CS 39k miles- dx with TC problem. Was told by the dealer 3 or 4 weeks ago that they are on backorder. On Friday was told that they have 3 coming in for folks who were "ahead of me". Hopefully they will get new TC for me soon. I am driving my 911 in the meantime, although SA told me it is safe to drive Cayenne.

What are your symptoms?

2012 Cayenne S, around 105k miles, with TC failure. Has been a year in decline in retrospect. Did the oil change and it helped a bit, but not nearly enough to keep it from needing the TC to be replaced. Wife's car, so I wasn't aware of the problem, and into the shop today for the fix.

I've contacted Porsche Customer Relations and opened a case number in hope of some current or future remuneration. Went through my cars (Macan GTS-- which apparently has TC issues too -- and 991 GT3), good customer, etc... but no commitment on their part.

Symptoms?

Some members had to flush the TC twice to get good results. Might be worth the hassle if you're paying out of pocket for the TC replacement.

"jerky" acceleration initially on 3rd gear, then also on second and 4th.

Prior to my transfer case replacement, you would feel a clear occasional 'stutter' on acceleration particularly in 2nd and 3rd gears...It would cause a bump/shock like sensation through the drivetrain when the stutter would occur.

I took my Cayenne to the service department on 24 April and got it back today, 26 June. The entire delay was due to waiting for a transfer case. Last week I spoke with the Service Manager and Parts Manager and they referenced an email "from Germany" that stated Porsche had 138 transfer cases in stock and exactly one was due in to them last Thursday.

The 'stutter' was my symptom as well. Sounded like what you would expect to hear if you ran over several walnuts/acorns and crushed them under the tire.

"The 'stutter' was my symptom as well. Sounded like what you would expect to hear if you ran over several walnuts/acorns and crushed them under the tire."

Exactly the same symptom as mine. Failure at about 30k; replaced under CPO. PTV+ diff went at about the same time and was also replaced under CPO.

Hmmm, what were the symptoms of the PTV differential?

I have PTV (&PDCC), and I have 47k miles now (on my 2012).

=Steve

To summarize the symptoms:

• "Shudder/stutter" or "Jerky" acceleration in 2nd and/or 3rd gear
• Noise - cracking noise when turning

Is this correct?

Just as a sidenote - the noise when turning is the identical symptom a clutch based limited slip differential will give when a non-limited slip oil is used in it. The sound is the clutch plates sticking and releasing (binding). You can also feel this when turning - much like the jerky acceleration noted. GM makes an additive - spec'd for the Corvette - that cures this. I used it in a BMW E28/535 where I experienced this after changing the differential fluid. And that makes me think about Porsche recently changing the PN on the transfer-case fluid. Wonder what the change really was...? (Just mind-gaming here..)

Ahh, Thanks Don. I had my TC replaced {good will} about 2k miles ago, but I am now feeling this differential studder on low speed turns.

Thanks for helping clarify, as it seems I have,... had two different symptoms at the same time.

Guess it's back into the dealership. Wonder if they'll do a good will on the Diff too? (I'm out of warranty) ... or maybe I just need a Diff oil change. We'll see.

=Steve

AFAIK, our differentials aren't limited slip unless you get PTV (torque-vectoring) where they are limited slip electrically controlled. And there have been some issues with those ones.

The symptoms for my PTV+ diff failure were very similar to the TC failure but more vibration when turning left at low speeds. I could also hear a groaning noise at low speeds. The dealer at first though that the brand new TC was bad [!] but after placing microphones under the truck decided that it was the diff. When they drained the fluid out it was totally burnt. The service manager's view was that up until the most recent software update, the PTV+ was working all of the time but now only activates over 5 or 10 mph. This may have led to premature wear that really seems to effect PTV+ diffs. Pretty good size job to change it out and I am glad that I did not have to pay for it.....

Thanks termite01. Yea I'm experiencing the same symptoms.

We have multiple Diff's,... so when you say "PTV Diff", is it specifically one differential in particular?

Since I have a brand new TC, I am definitely thinking this is my PTV Differential.

=Steve

The issue was with the rear diff. I have only seen mention of one front diff having been replaced but several rears. All were PTV....willing to wager that almost all of the PTV rear diffs are likely to fail. There are not a lot of PDCC/PTV 958 TT's around and there seem to be a significant number that are having diff issues. Mine had 30k miles and was driven for 29k miles by a hausfrau who probably never went over 60 MPH. All dealer service and CPO as well. No reason for that diff to have gone and eaten itself....

Copy That termite01. Thanks for the clarification.
{< ... btw, I wasn't really thinking that my PDCC/PTV 958 CTT was all that rare due to options but maybe so... >}

I've been running the piss outta mine since I bought it with 16k miles 2.5 yrs ago. Autocross, towing, etc. I've got 47k miles on it now,.. so if it requires a rear PTV oil change, then I am more than FINE with that. If they tell me the rear diff is toast, ... well then we have a nice little conversation.

Sidebar: Sorry for tangent on rear PTC Diff (verses TC failure on this thread). I could not find a separate dedicated RL Thread for rear differential failures. Although I did find this thread on changing Diff oil...
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...ntial-oil.html

=Steve

Mine had both symptoms, but they went away after my recent TC replacement (PTV+ equipped also).

As mentioned, the rear diff on the PTV+ Cayennes is an electronically controlled locking unit. The occasional chatter on tight low speed turns could be due to whatever Porsche uses in the fluid for a limited slip additive, wearing out/getting contaminated. Used to happen often on my GM performance vehicles with limited slip/locking diffs.

GM used to specify the small bottle of their limited slip additive, but in recent years specified a new synthetic axle lubricant that already includes an additive for the limited slip clutch plates. I'm guessing Porsche fluid is similar.

I have both symptoms with cracking nuts on left turn and stutter on 2-3gear slow acceleration from a coast. Took it in yesterday and waiting to see what happens. Only 1 month out of CPO but dealer said they would fix under good will.

11' TT loaded with PDCC, PASM, PTV, etc.

I take it this is the fluid that some of you have used?

Yes that is what I used just now. 10 min job and here was my fluid.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b08801c44c.jpg

Yes.

Looks almost like a dark hearty German beer! :cheers:

Just a little update... stopped by my dealer today to visit my SA to get on their books for the upcoming AH08 campaign/recall on the '11 variocam bolt replacements.

While there I just casually asked if they're still doing a lot of TC replacements on the 958s. "Oh yeah!" Was his response. He mentioned that a recall might be coming for those as well.

He did say that the updated TC (new part #) such as the one mine recently received, along with the vent kit and the shield is the factory fix to address the issue. Time will tell I guess.

Macans also having TC issues BTW.

So I have time tonight to change fluid. But I guess I don't have any 8mm bits for a torque wrench. I just have an allen wrench set which has the 8mm so I can take the plugs off. But am I foolish to tighten the plugs back up by hand?

Everyone says to not overtighten so I got that much. Have you folks tightened by hand or is everyone getting the bit and torque wrench dealy?

Figured I'd just tighten to a nice snug fit but figured I'd check here first. Worst case I'll swing by Home Depot this week.

Ok..home depot only had 40lb+ torque wrenches. Even online most 1/4 drive are 20lbs and up. What are you guys using for 13lbs? Is it only 13lbs? I thought I read on one of the other sites it was 26 lbs.

I'm thinking of just giving it the whole snug tightening by hand with allen wrench.

As always, any help is much appreciated.

I use an inch/lb torque wrench (which converts on the dial to ft/lbs) and gives me very low torque ability.

Are you sure you were not looking at 20-200 inch/lb rating wrenches? There are tons of them out there for sale everywhere.

=Steve

Blah. You're right. The one at Home Depot was definitely 40lbs+ as it was a large wrench. But yeah, all the online ones that are $20-$30 are indeed 20-200 inch lbs. Thanks for the correction Steve.

I can't tell you what to do - since I have no idea of your mechanical abilities. You could be a terror with a wrench. Or you might be wonderful with one.

I'll tell you what I do - is tighten it by hand, using a 6" 3/8" drive ratchet and the correct size Allen driver. I use a 6" ratchet because I use that just with my wrist. Anything longer - like a standard 10-12" ratchet, you are now getting into arm muscles doing the work. A standard L shaped allen wrench will be about the same torque ratio.

The problem with a torque wrench is - the lever arm, especially on the low torque 1/4" ones - is just too long. Muscles don't respond instantly. If you're using a clicker wrench - chances are - by the time you react to the click (or beep with an electronic one) - you've already tightened it past that point due to reaction time. Torque wrenches take some skill to use - especially low torque ones.

I tightened mine until it was snug. "Snug" is a thing that is learned through years of wrenching. It's probably not so easy for a first timer.

If you're not confident in doing it yourself - find a good independent and leave it to them. It shouldn't be more than 30 minutes labor (and 15 minutes of that is loading the PIG on and off the lift.) That cost would be way less than having to repair the transfer case if you over-torqued it.

YMMV, and it's possible you're actually a factory-trained Ferrari mechanic as a day job - but I'm guessing not.

why guess with your wrist,... when it's really hard to mess up with a lever type inch/lb like the one I use below. No click guessing involved...

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5b433d1acf.jpg

Hah...nah...not a Ferrari mechanic by any means but just not sure this qualifies as taking it to a shop. Clearly 13 foot lbs is not much at all and can only assume these TCs are not under any sort of high pressure.

Again...I am not the biggest DIYer but I think I can handle this task with relative ease. I'll just grab a beam style torque like Steve showed just as added security.

But I do want to thank you for all that you have done with these TC threads. You have pretty much taken the reins on this issue across all the forums. You have done a good job of explaining and tracking this issue on all the platforms. So thank you from all of us that are benefiting.

I'm not sure where the 13 ft/lbs came from - let me look that up for you..

OK - after much searching (factory 11,000 page manual - useless..) AllData - took about 10 minutes to find - gives:


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...db4feb94df.gif

Transfer case torque values..

And there you have it.. and thanks for the kind words. I tend to write things out as I'm mulling them over - so sometimes you'll see I've changed my original direction on a topic - as I mulled over additional input.

Thanks Don. Yeah, the 13 was listed a few times on this thread (46, 56), post 198 on 6speed and a 4-14 post on renntech. So I just assumed. But thank you for searching and clarifying for us.

Going to to attempt this over the weekend. Then I'll drive around a few weeks and do it again to ensure all particles have been flushed. It's such an easy preventative maintenance item.

Heh, best laugh this morning.

We used to joke "tighten 'til it breaks... then back off a half".

I agree vis using short-handled ratchets for this. Best to snug it up 'reasonably' tight with one of those. I'm not sensing this is a fantastically picky torque setting, it's a plug threaded into a hole, not valve clearances or head bolts. You're mainly after avoiding ruining the threads in the casing by cross-threading or over-tightening.

My turn for the TC oil change
 

Being a wrench turner for most of my life, I have always like the term "calibrated elbow." I thought I heard a click in the elbow.

Ok....I just received my two bottles of Ravenol J1C1125 Transfer Case Fluid TF-0870 from Amazon. I will take a picture of the old oil and post. Like g8tor20 I will drive around and then change again. I will take another picture of the second oil change and post.

15 ftlbs seems like a lot of torque for an alloy casing. So, I have one question: is anyone using any type of sealant on the servicing plugs (snugging) vice torquing the plugs? i.e. teflon tape, high temp silicone.....
I would appreciate any suggestions.

Ok...change 1 completed. Got a little messy when it first started pouring out. :icon107:

But it was dark like all previous pictures. Cleaned the plugs and added the Ravenol. About as easy a fluid change as there can be.

I'll drive around for a few weeks and do the 2nd bottle of Revenol.

I am curious as to kkturbo's question as to adding sealing tape or silicone to these existing plugs.

I just spent that past 1.5 hours reading every individual post so PHEWW lol

This thread is fantastic though, I have not purchased my 2012 Cayenne S (Monday I will) but im taking the time from this weekend to read on this forum educate myself see what can be done DIY what part #'s are, reliability etc just a thorough look over on here basically

My soon to be CS has 64 thousand miles and the carfax doesn't have any reference from going to the dealer for any TC issues however I did see at 28k 40k & 54k Miles Engine/powertrain computer/module checked.. not sure if that's anything but worth noting

To play it safe having that little extra peace of mind ill pick up 2 Qts of Raveno drain and fill.. wait a few weeks and do the same I would like to see a recall issued with the new part # but from what I've read maybe by the end of the year

so I drove it around for a couple of weeks and noise on left turn changed and got quieter. I also change front and rear diff fluids. The rear was black but front was relatively clean.

I changed the TC fluid again for a second time this morning and hopefully the noise goes away. Will report back.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...ccf5d50d76.jpg

let us know man - I have about 500 miles on my 2012 and I'm debating on doing this I know I should but so far haven't heard any "walnuts" or felt any issues although the CS needs a little extra throttle to reverse

Changing the TC fluid merely makes the problem go away for a while. As is now quite obvious based on the suggested fix from Porsche, the underlying cause is due to the flawed vent line design, and unless you either a) regularly change the fluid or b) install the rerouted vent line, the problem will return. Also, there's a distinct chance that damage was done if the transfer case fluid degraded badly. I just had mine replaced (under CPO warranty, at 75000 miles). It took about a month to get the part(s), but the install/swap only took 2 hours.

And you know this because? Do you have some data that supports this statement?
I don't know how obvious the vent issue was - since it took Porsche 4 years or so to figure that out. It would seem if they got back transfer cases and bothered to drain the oil and do a failure analysis - this would have been detected earlier.

I suspect it IS an issue if you commonly drive on flooded roads. The air-scoop mounted on the bottom of the TC certainly isn't helping since it will also scoop up water and throw it toward the top of the transfer case.

If that was the only issue - it would be hard to explain failures occurring in dry climates where it almost never rains. And we've seen these.

There certainly is a possibility the transfer case was damaged by degraded lubricant, but the possibility also exists that it wasn't - and a fluid change might extend the life of the TC. Since it's (a) cheap (b) easy to do - I see no reason not to try it before replacing the TC (unless of course if you have a warranty company happy to pay for a new TC - then go for it.)

BTW - you may have seen my suggestion of every-other-oil-change for the interval to change the TC oil. Doing it at every oil change also isn't unreasonable since it's (a) cheap (b) easy to do.

Yup - absolutely worth a try. I think you're in the same general area as me, and we drive wet/flooded roads all the time, so I went for plan "B". I'm sure a lack of warranty would have pushed me to plan "A"!

Cheers.

so I drive it to work today and the noise is muted even more but I can still feel it in the steering wheel. Will see after a while more if it goes away.

So any chances Porsche will make a recall on this?

I would say - no. They might do a workshop campaign.

There is a big distinction:

RECALLS are to address SAFETY ISSUES - where there is a reasonable risk of someone being injured or killed due to the failure of some part of the vehicle, or function of the vehicle. Airbags that explode too hard in your face - that has killed people - it's a recall. Engines that stall, taking out the power steering and power brake boost - that could kill someone - it's a recall. A recall can be initiated by a manufacturer - which they usually do after they're told by NHTSA that they're being investigated, and to turn over all documents related to some reported fault. Or it can be mandated by NHTSA when the manufacturer refuses to initiate the recall on their own. The manufacturer eats all the costs involved with the recall, but may pass some of the parts expense back to the OE manufacturer who actually made the part that's failing. The manufacturer also is required by law to reimburse owners who have repaired the issue before the recall was announced at their own expense.

Workshop Campaigns are notifications and directions to the dealership service departments on how to address issues that the manufacturer feels should be addressed. In general - the expense of these is only covered by the manufacturer if the vehicle is still under warranty. There are some exceptions to that - particularly if the manufacturer is trying to avoid issuing a recall for the problem. In some cases the campaign only kicks in if a problem is experienced, in other instances any vehicle under warranty that arrives at the dealers has the campaign done to it.

I think we may see a Workshop-Campaign - that allows the dealer to transfer at least part of the cost of the transfer case replacement to the manufacturer of the transfer-case.

The way that usually works is - the owner pays labor. Porsche provides the part for free. They can provide the part for free - because the supplier of the part is eating the cost (if they ever want to be an OE supplier for Porsche in the future) and Porsche is passing along the freebee.

That's what I expect we'll see. It will probably be done on an "as they fail" basis - where any broken ones brought to the dealer are covered. Unbroken ones - since they aren't a "safety" issue - continue being used until they do break. Sometimes with Workshop-Campaigns, the manufacturer will extend the warranty on that specific part for some period of miles/time (100k-miles, 6 year - from in-service date.) BMW loves to do that to avoid recalls. After the extended warranty is up - you're on your own.

All theory - but I have followed these sort of things for some time, and that's the usual German MO..

No use differentiating between 'Campaign' and 'Recall' in this case because I think what's really being asked here is "do we have a chance in hell that Porsche is going to start covering these failures out of warranty".

According to my dealer SA when I was in there getting on their list for the variocam bolt recall, the answer is likely to be 'yes'. He said the number of replacements at this point is incredible and 958 TCs are still on backorder. Porsche is considering providing some relief on this, as this has gained a lot of attention within PNA. So stay tuned.

I guess the good news is the revised TC along with the new associated components like the vent kit and splash shield are reported to fix the problem(s) per PNA. I guess time will tell, as mine got all the new stuff just a couple months ago.

First post in this thread - bought a brand new 2016 Cayenne V6 last year, it has 11k miles on it. It developed a very bad off-idle acceleration problem, basically a 1-3 second delay in linear acceleration from idle.
The dealer just informed us that it needs a new x-fer case and they had to get it from Germany. It did not feel like slippage or mechanical issue but rather an electrical issue. I was betting on the ignition coil problem. Perhaps its a sensor inside the case that was monitoring slippage and the computer was trying to adjust for it.
The guy told me that they unplugged the sensor on the x-fer case and drove it around to determine that was the problem. He also told me that the new x-fer case will be the upgraded version. I asked for any documentation about the upgrade, he said there is nothing. Again, only 11k miles, and its my wife's rig, she drives it very casually. Must have been the rain water on the road that made it into the case via the vent pipe, contaminating the fluid? Ill report back as soon as I drive it.

Edit: 07/25 - Autobahn Porsche in FTW TX says its ready, new upgraded x-fer case. Will pick it up tomorrow. I will ask to speak with the tech as well as service manager to acquire as much info as possible, not sure they will have as much experience as they would in California but anything will help.

I will drain oil asap and put in something better, trying to figure that out now.

I hope so too since I got my Xfr case replaced a couple months ago too.

And I'm proof that they will, and have indeed replaced the TC outside of warranty. Zero cost to me. I was a year out of warranty, had 45k miles on my '12 CTT, and my dealership KNOWS that I autocross it hard. They are fine with that, and even applaud that I drive it the way a "Porsche" should be driven. "Good Will", so my dealer got paid anyway.

Now my next concern is the differentials, since I have PTV & I'm starting to feel walnuts back there. Diff fluid coming up next, but I'll be paying for the oil on this one myself.

=Steve

2011 CS TC Oil Change
 

I just changed the oil in my TC and the oil does have a burnt smell. Maybe I was lucky or was preemptive enough that but I did not hear the walnuts cracking. Like other posts here the oil change should smooth out the shifting. I will know more tomorrow once the P!G sits over night. This oil does look pretty bad and is inline with all the other pictures on this thread.

I plan on changing the oil again in about two to four weeks. I will post the second oil change once complete.


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...5429d5da6b.jpg

Obvious question, why is the fluid getting dirty? The wet clutches in motorcycles get dirty from the fiber rings and aluminum clutch plates wearing against each other, the engine case also has a vent tube which may suck water/dirt occasionally. If the Porsche solution is to reroute the vent tube then that is to help prevent dust and water from being directed into the x-fer case and contaminating the oil. If that is the problem, then we might consider adding a filter as well, for example...

http://www.pcracingusa.com/Carb-Vent_p_84.html

If the oil is being contaminated by clutch pack wear then the only solution is to change the oil regularly. The clutch inside the x-fer case is designed to slip, thereby creating friction/heat which burns the oil. Certain oils will cause more slippage (less drive) while others will cause less slippage (drive train wear).

So, what other brands use wet clutch x-fer cases and don't have these problems? There must be some sort of racing application, perhaps better clutch packs?

I am only trying to make suggestions here, not claiming to be an expert at all.

The oil needs to allow the proper amount of slippage while also enduring a tremendous amount of heat and friction without breaking down (cooked).

I change the oil in my dirt bikes every couple of rides because of all of the above - dirt, friction, fiber wear, aluminum & steel wear, and of course - heat. Every time I change it, it is black as hell. Many times we will replace the aluminum clutch plates with steel for obvious reasons.

Installing the vent filter and using the best/proper oil may increase the time between oil changes but I think the design is ultimately the problem. Too much heat, friction, and wear for the modern oils to handle?

I will start researching which other brands have a similar wet-clutch x-fer case and see what they use for oil and how often they have to change it.

I will also find out where the new vent tube ends and consider rigging a filter on the end.

Edit: The filter in the link that I attached is a small box with a foam filter inside, the box will keep out moisture and the filter will keep out the fine dust that is common in DFW Texas.

BMW xdrive uses wet clutch pack in x-fer case as well, however it appears they use sensors to monitor slippage and plate thickness and alert when it is time for an oil change. BMW recommends a BMW branded fluid, specs are not known.

Audi/VW use the same x-fer case as Porsche according to a few forums, not 100% sure about this yet.

Porsche TSB 2/04 3965 X-fer case oil spec:

Esso ESSO Mobil ATF LT 71141 Spec.
cSt @ 40º C 37.2
cSt @ 100ºC 7.4
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270 168
Density @15º C g/ml, ASTM D 4052 0.855
Flashpoint 219 Celsius

Possible ATF alternatives (so far, still researching)

Ravenol
Porsche OEM "63"
Royal Purple documented LT 71141 -> yes, flashpoint http://www.royalpurpleconsumer.com/p...mission-fluid/
Liqui Moly Top Tec ATF 1200 ->documented LT 71141 - Yes, https://products.liqui-moly.us/top-tec-atf-1200-1.html
Amsoil - documented LT 71141 -> yes, flashpoint 234 cel. http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produc...mission-fluid/
Redline D4 ->documented LT 71141 - yes, flash point https://www.redlineoil.com/content/files/tech/ATF%20PDS%202-10.pdf
Redline High Temp ATF Flash Point 235, DexronIII equiv.
Motul -> documented LT 71141 -> yes, flashpoint 218 cel. https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/multi-atf--2
FUCHS TITAN ATF 5005 ->documented LT 71141 - yes
Shell TF-0870 ->documented LT 71141 - yes
Brad Penn ->documented LT 71141 - yes
Pentosin ->documented LT 71141 - yes
Castrol Edge
Swepco 201 ->documented LT 71141 - yes
Penzoil - Max Life ATF

Transfer case failure
 

Removed thread post

Why would you bother keeping a vehicle sitting undriven in a driveway for 8 months? You have been keeping it on a battery charger during that time, right? Like it says in the manual?

It's never a good idea to own a higher-end vehicle when you're two hours away from a dealer. Have you sought help from the local PCA chapter to find a more local independent shop?

The best simple step is to start with changing transfer case fluid... twice. The second time to remove the last of what the first didn't catch. Then see how it performs. If it's good, and you're worried, take the opportunity to sell it.

HummerGuy, if you take that route - do us a favor and post the VIN# here.. so none of us are tempted to buy it.

BTW - I fail to see the logic of "it might be broken, but we're too far from the dealer, so we'll park it in the driveway and watch it depreciate.." but then perhaps your username is a clue. Hows the Hummer treating you?

Wow, out come the haters already...lol

If you're going to talk smack, know that first postings of it get sent out in e-mail alerts. So editing it out won't pull the foot fully back outta yer mouth.

Run away if you must, but I did ask if it's actually been sitting idle, without a battery tender, for all this time. Because if it has you may well have caused yourself additional grief. Self-inflicted wounds gather even less sympathy, beyond just rattling your cage.

You're not going to find too many online forums that cover these beasts, so you'll likely encounter all the same "fat heads".

Thing is, these folks have experience with these vehicles and are pretty good about sharing advice. Assuming someone doesn't wander in coming across like an idiot that doesn't expect to get hassled for it. So consider yourself hassled. Ready to move past it?

Here's a question I didn't see covered... at least not in anything I read, is this present in the 6 speed manual (V6) variants of these? I know it's present in the base V6, but most of what I've seen is in the S, TT, etc, with the automatic. I am aware it's not an issue of too much torque being applied to the TC, but just an inherent design flaw.

I know it's past the conversation on that, but back to the whole drain and fill plug torque discussion - I read mention of an application on the bolt. Is this a sealant or an adhesive? If it's an adhesive, I wouldn't really recommend reusing it. If it's a sealant it's fine. Judging by it's size I'd guess that 15 ft/lb isn't anywhere near plastic elongation (stretching beyond return upon torque) for it, but I would be careful of oil on the threads of the bolt and housing, as that will reduce friction on threads, reducing torque reading relative to similar clamp load (maybe this is why I was reading 13 ft/lb?) and making sure to clean both as much as possible, and taking extra caution when tightening as to not over-tighten it to prevent cracking the case.

I don't find this hating at all. Maybe some guys are little too sensitive.

When you've owned any cars at all, you know quite well that you have to get the car to the service shop/dealer to undertake any evaluations, diagnostics, and repairs. If the car is covered by a warranty, some pay the tow costs , or a portion of it. Some others you pay a fee, say like AAA. Im sure in 8 months you could have joined AAA and sent it in sometime or just paid a flat bed to carry it in. Porsche can t see through the telephone any better than you and I can.

How do you figure it is up to anyone else but you to do this?

Then you can decide the rest from there.

Hours of research....

New t-case has extended vent tube and better cooling with a plastic air wing to direct air over the case. Porsche added another oil with PN# "63". This thread started with folks either changing to Ravenol and others making sure that they have the new "63" OEM spec oil versus the older spec.
So far, from this thread, most seem to be doing well.
I pick up my repaired Porsche today and I will be checking the oil very closely. I will report back with my dealer feedback and oil progress.

An "air-wing" has been standard since the start of production, at least on the turbo. And it's part of the problem. It hangs below the transfer case and catches air flowing under the vehicle and directs it up toward the front side of the case, looks like in the chain area. Problem with the air-wing - it is equally effective at redirecting any water one might drive through, right up to the top of the transfer case where the vent is located (and protected with a "birds-mouth" sort of rubber vent/seal - a piss-poor design.)

Porsche did add a circular deflector to the output for the front driveshaft, since apparently that also was slinging water up onto the top of the transfer case. The vent kit is basically a simple tubular sort of plastic thing that moves the vent up into the engine compartment, behind the engine, where water is very unlikely to enter it. I don't know if they used an inverted-J sort of end on it so the actual opening points down, but that would be a good thing if they did.

I did see all the bits that Porsche includes in the new installation kit for new transfer cases - the local dealer was doing one - and they had everything laid out on the shop floor.

Unfortunately - retrofitting your existing case to take the new vent kit would require dropping the transfer case since there is almost no room above it where the vent is.

Update:

Got the car back yesterday, only service work done was to replace the t-case and test drive.
After driving home in rush hour stop-n-go traffic and then back to work this morn, I was upset to discover that the off-idle hesitation was still very obvious to me. On more than one occasion I experienced 1-3 second stumbles and hesitation. If the t-case needed to be replaced then I am quite positive that I did not make that much of a difference with my complaint. Regardless, I verified the new t-case and vent tube. I asked to see the oil that was used but the tech said that it came pre-filled from Germany. I will open the drain plug and smell, finger the oil in 1-2k miles just to get a feel for it.
I am opening up another thread on the off-idle hesitation as I now believe that it is unrelated.

Folks - this thread has been made a sticky since it is rather frequently referred to. I may merge another transfer-case thread into it after I see if the merge will look odd (messages out of place sort of odd.) If the transfer-case issue becomes old news and the thread activity dies down, I may unsticky it, but I doubt if that's happening in the near future.

Interesting post on a "sister" forum (both 6speed and rennlist are owned by IB):
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...ml#post4654120

add me to the list
 

Hi Guys,

I'm new here but have been following this thread before I bought my 2012 Cayenne S. I have a friend who directed me to these forums and I bought it knowing it might have this very issue. I was able to pick up on the symptoms and do the TC oil change with Ravenol and sure enough, the transfer case was running good again.

However, the symptoms didn't go away immediately, which made me discouraged at first but I read one member had the same experiance and his symptoms went away after his sat overnight and over the next couple days. I had the same experiance. I plan on doing another oil change with ravenol in the next week to clear out more of the old oil that may still be in there but I'm happy to report that the transfer case issue is resolved for my CS.

Anyway heres my CS w/SportDesign package and FabSpeed exhaust. This one in particular was very difficult for me to find as I was very interested in a GTS but it was not in budget. I found this gem and bought it before the dealer could even put it out on their website. Very Happy with this purchase.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...98c495e943.jpg

Larry - thanks for the report. Glad to hear it worked for you!

So., because this is par for the course when I try to take care of things....

Anyone know if they sell just the rear cover for these? Or have the rear cover from their old one around?

I set the wrong torque (20 lb/ft, instead of 15, thinking Nm) and cracked it the cover.

Edit: I'm probably going to become the Rennlist Ghetto-pro for this, but if it works then it works. The sealant on the bolt (glad I grabbed new ones) flowed into the area of the crack causing the leak and pretty much stopped it. As to save myself a couple grand and a massive headache (for now, at least) I cleaned the whole area and gave it a healthy application of JB Weld (It's held transmissions and differentials together before... probably some transfer cases that I just don't know of) So I'll see how it looks when cured after ~20 hours. Here's to hoping this holds up, at the very least until the next time I change the fluid and hopefully these cases (or even the rear covers on their own) are more easily available.

Photos of my misery for your amusement:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a78bb5bbf7.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...b30a177eba.jpg

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...f612e5c2a4.jpg

Basically....

Be VERY certain to properly torque your fasteners

Wifes 12 cayenne started slipping , shutter at 103,000 km , 60,000 miles. Porsche SA ....replace TC or could drainTC, add antislip additive $5 then fill with new fluid. They did mention water contamination. Anyways after change no shutter and service was performed 2 months ago. I may get some Ravenol and change in a few months.

DocDRS - do you have the service order for that change? I wonder what antislip additive they used? If it lists it - that would be excellent info. I think somewhere WAY back when I mentioned the GM "Corvette Limited Slip" additive - used in the limited slip differentials on Vettes. They use a multiplate wet clutch much like the transfer case uses - and they'd chatter going around corners if the additive wasn't used. I used it on a BMW 535i that had chatter after I changed the diff oil (limited slip) - worked like a charm.

Today I went to my mechanic to change out my transfer case fluid which was so easy I didn't have the time to get under the car plus it was only $20 bucks so well worth it.

Is it weird to say I noticed a immediate difference? feels smoother my CS, less input on the throttle to take off, drives more "relaxed"

I didnt manage to get a picture of the oil that drainedo ut but it wasn't that dark to begin with it was a medium shade brown. I managed to snag 1 picture but well worth it, come January 2018 or sometime whenever I will change the fluid again since I have another bottle

Fortunately my "fix" has held up perfectly fine.

I never had any real issues, but I do notice it's a bit smoother now. Biggest difference was in changing between reverse and drive, no more hesitation or harder change.

This is a first time post as I am a new owner to a lightly used 2016 Cayenne Turbo. I have not seen anyone comment on whether or not the 2016's had an improvement on this issue and am curious if any of you guys know? My CTT is still in transit and should be here by the end of the weekend so if I need to get this fixed, I might as well do it right away. Thanks in advance,

Tony

Had mine done at 36k. 2014 tts.

First TC replaced in a V6 i have seen.

https://rennlist.com/forums/vehicle-...59k-miles.html

Back when I was keeping a record of the failures/replacements - the V6 was not immune to the failures. The only ones that appear to not have failures are the diesel and hybrid - and their cases are 50/50 cases, not 30/70 cases.

Tony, my dealer has instances where they've had to replace some TCs on the 958.2 series as well (2015-2017).

Got it. Is the best way to get this fixed to just call the dealer and let them know that I want to change out my transfer case fluid? Thanks,

Tony

Cayenne diesel S
 

Hi...new to this forum! I have a 2015 Diesel S (V8 4,2 l) and have same TC case problems. I have 41 000 Km on the clock. Local dealer will replace the TC under warranty, however I am concerned that the problem will return. I dont see any reverence on this forum to the V8 Diesel having the same TC problems?
My dealer assures me that the replacement TC is a "new upgraded TC" .... I am not convinced.

What I do not understand, is why this problem has not been solved years ago? Surely there should have been a factory recall?
Interesting to read about the venting issue as well as the replacing of the TC fluid.
Is it safe to say that once the TC has been replaced i can expect it to be trouble free for the next 150 000Km?
Thanking you in advance.

The V8 diesel never made it to the US - so our experience on this forum is really nil. On the V6 diesels I have yet to see a report of a problem.

Since we're not familiar with the driveline on the V8 - do you know if it provides 50%/50% power or 30%/70% front/rear power as normal? It appears the vehicles using the 50%/50% distribution (in the US - the hybrid and V6 diesel) are free of this problem.

As far as why it hasn't been fixed before now, or the subject of a factory recall - you'd have to ask Porsche. A "recall" in the US means a very specific action taken by the manufacturer to cure a problem that presents danger to the vehicle occupants or surrounding vehicles. It doesn't get used for just a "factory fix" of a troublesome or ill-designed component.

Will the new one last 150,000Km? Don't know. Yours is the first reported diesel.

Since it sounds as if you're paying for this repair - have you tried the fluid change outlined here? It is a trivial cost service with the possibility of large savings.

BTW - since your Cayenne is a low mileage failure (41,000Km = ~25,000 miles) - there is a chance that you are suffering from a manufacturing flaw in the transfer case. All of the low miles/Km failures we've seen to date here seem to have a defective clutch assembly, where a part wasn't machined correctly. If that's the case - a fluid change is unlikely to fix it (but IMHO - worth trying anyway if you're paying for the repair.) In those cases - the replacement transfer cases seem to solve the problem. There appear to be two failure modes. The less common is the defective clutch problem at low mileage. The more common (especially as the cars get more miles on them) is wear related with fluid contamination.

Tony - do you know it needs to be "fixed"? It certainly is a good thing to get a fluid change done - it might prevent problems in the future.

Thanks for that!
The repair is at no charge as the car is still under warranty. Yes I would love to change the TC oil , but am afraid of voiding the warranty. Here in Cape Town, the car also comes with a 5 year 100 000 km service plan which covers everything except tires! As far as the torque split, you are correct...only the V6 diesel and the Hybrid have the 48/52 fixed torque split ( older system). I am told the V8 diesel has the "infinitely variable" newer system as per the rest of the fleet.Also has the 8 speed auto gearbox.
I gathers from reading this thread that you dont get the V8 diesel in USA. Pity, it has to be the pick of the bunch! 385 Hp, 626 Ft lbs torque, 0-62mph in 5.4 sec! On top of great gas mileage ( 30+ Mpg)...ticks all the boxes!
It may have something to do with the quality of Diesel available in the USA....Sulphur need 50 ppm or lower.

The new TC is on order (Vin specific) from Germany and hope to have it fitted End of September.

Once the Tc is changed I will report back.
Thanks!

You're right, I don't know if it truly needs to be "fixed." Are most people taking these to an independent shop to get the fluid changed out or will the dealership do it? Thanks,

Tony

Dealership will do about anything you're willing to pay them to do. If you read the thread - you'll see it's a trivial job and most people have been DIY. Just be careful tightening up the two plugs, so far two people have cracked the rear cover of the transfer case by overtightening. If you don't feel competent to do it yourself then certainly pay someone who has experience to do it.

2016 Cayenne Turbo, approx. 11,800 miles: Transfer case replaced this week under warrantee.

Ugh. I may be back in the game here. 2012 CTT.

TC replaced back in April '17 when I had 45k miles.

Last month I start feeling the back end do the "posi-traction bump" like my old 69 Chevelle used to do,.... only when slowly backing up, turning, and then moving forward again slowly.

Given that I have a brand new TC,... I start thinking differentials. So I change both Diff fluids. Weird that it actually got worse.

Called my SA, and he says,... "still sounds like your TC. Bring it in & we'll test it out for ya, no cost". These guys have been great to me for sure. They were able to get me "Good Will" back in April, since I was out of warranty.

Now I'm like What-the-H. Anyway,... I'll report back when I know more.
=Steve

Took my '17 GTS to the dealer yesterday for it's first oil change. I'd asked to have the transfer case fluid changed as well. Turns out mine has the older style transfer case (build in Fall 2017) and it's recommended to not bother changing the fluid. Rather, wait until it starts showing signs of failure and swap it out under warranty.

Well, ok then, I guess I'll just wait?

Can we say your dealer is a greedy dolt? I knew we can.

They don't all fail. Actually the majority of them don't fail. Changing the transfer case oil is a trivial job - but bet the dealer didn't have the oil in stock so he came up with that bogus reply to discourage you from having it done.

See if you can find a good Porsche independent in your area. They shouldn't charge more than 30 minutes labor - and the Ravenol oil is cheap, and appears to be quite compatible with our transfer cases.

It's in warranty (and will be for quite a while), so it's not like it really matters that much to me at the present. Sure, there's certainly a degree of 'task avoidance' or finagling for factory warranty claims, but it's really not a big issue for me at this point. If anything, neglecting it would hasten the warranty replacement.

Let me fix that:

If anything, neglecting it would hasten the unnecessary warranty replacement.

The dealer is likely happy - he makes more from Porsche replacing the transfer case under warranty than he will from you preventively changing the oil.

Thing is - they don't ALL fail - and at some point your warranty will expire - and if it then fails (there seem to be two peaks in the failure - early and late. Early is around 20k miles, late is > 60k miles - ie - out of warranty) the cost is on you.

If the dealer told me this, I'd ask for it in writing.

Of course if like some people you (wisely) won't own a German car out of warranty - then it's a non-issue except the time involved if it does fail.

Agreed. I'd rather have an improved design, which seems the only 'free' way to obtain such is to have the existing one fail.

Otherwise I can spend an extra amount of money (albeit less at an independent or DIY than a dealer) to reduce the likelihood of problems. Assuming, of course, that service done for an outside of scheduled maintenance doesn't otherwise negatively affect the warranty status. As in, the independent (or DIY) gets it wrong "somehow". Then I'd be in a pissing match on who to blame for any resulting transfer case problem.

While I don't drive an excessive amount of miles, I do give it a pretty 'spirited' workout on a regular basis. Leading me to believe I'll likely have the transfer case situation develop while still in warranty. I did spring for the extended program, along with pre-paid service. So my financial surprises are 'less likely' for at least a little longer.

I have a 2016 Cayenne S eHybrid and wanted to check if the fluid was affected by moisture. I drained the fluid at 19Kmi and was surprised at how dirty it looked. Luckily blackstone confirmed there wasn't any water contamination, and values are similar to r553's from his CD.

What would be useful is if someone who has the TC issue and has been granted a replacement under warranty to test the fluid so we can get some data that would confirm/deny that water contamination really is the issue that's causing the premature failures. It would help validate that the diesels and hybrids really aren't affected.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...d20806c6df.jpg

New Ravenol TF-0870 on the left, used OEM fluid on the right after 19Kmi

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...e8ae196f77.png

Bill, don't you mean Fall 2016? We're just now into Fall of 2017 and I know you've had your GTS a little while. :)

Ah yes, correct. A 2017 model built in the Fall of 2016. Good catch.

TC replaced last week. All good. Car feels like new again!!
Thanks for all the advice.

TC replaced
 

Haven't been on for awhile. My 2015 Cayenne S with PDCC,PTV and Air Susp started to have studdering this spring. In April I took it in. Service Tech went less than a block with me driving and said it needed a new TC.
21000 miles. Replaced under Warranty.

Hello to everyone, well i had a TC replacement recently by my porsche Center a while ago. I was told is the new revised unit i now have installed, i don't know if they applied the Vent line upgrade or not since i thought that would fix my problem which is sad to say it didn't. My problem is a slight kick/thump i get when Downshifting and only happens from 3rd to 2nd. I also noticed a rare behavior on Upshifts (2nd to 3rd) when accelerating, not on hard acceleration. The behavior is weird, it shifts and the rev goes to around 2900 to 3000 falls and goes up again, this when on 3rd gear. Is constant with a faint stutter which can be felt and seen on the needle as it rises. Other gears are smooth. I'm told in the Porsche Center that it's still TC related and don't know why the problem still persists after the unit replacement. The old unit sure was needing a replacement. Any suggestions from anyone that fixed the TC problems?

So my CD has developed this weird stumble/hesitation when cruising. Most common at ~36-37mph, constant speed, light pedal. Originally I thought it was more a 1400rpm thing. Feels like a misfire. Nothing HARSH, no noise, just a sputter/stumble.

I mentioned it to the SA when I had it in for service. He said, "Transfer case. The magic word you said was, 'feels like a misfire.'" I found that odd given, so far, the consensus seems to be the CD's aren't affected by the TC issues.

They spent the day with it though - and said there were no issues found, and "We'll have to wait for it to get worse."

After he said it was the TC, I've been experimenting... and did notice that I can click the paddles and downshift a gear or two... and the feel is still there. Strange... so definitely not engine RPM related.

I'll be following this thread to see if any CD's pop up as having theirs replaced. I'm also gonna stay on my SA about mine. Still under warranty and I want it well documented.

I took my CS into the dealership because all of my symptoms are exactly what everyone on here is describing. I bought my Cayenne with a CPO warranty. Told the service advisor my issues over the phone and he immediately said that sound like TC issues so I took my car to the dealership. After the tech took the car for a ride, the service advisor told me they couldn't find any issues and it was fine. My warranty runs out in a month. It is my word against the service tech? I know I have TC issues. What can I do if the dealership wont help me???

First thought would be 'check with another dealer?'

well, I went ahead and changed my differential fluids and what was weird, was that at first, it actually made the weird grinding noise worse.
But then within a week it was all gone. It gradually went away (during that first week) & now I have not felt it in ~ 4 weeks.

Just thought I would report back as I had promised.

So I guess the new Transfer Case I received back in April is still going fine.

=Steve

Take it in again, get a ticket that states they looked for symptoms of transfer case problems before warranty runs out. If it fails in next couple of months, you can show ticket and claim you reported before warranty expired. Then you have a case to recover cost under your warranty.

I had the TC replaced on my 15 CS at 32000 miles. It went earlier( around 27000 miles) but I couldn't duplicate the problem at the dealer. I was considering buying at the end of the lease so I brought it back again and they felt the problem on a test drive and replaced it right then. It took abought 2 hours. The drive feels so much better and the residual seems low compared to the price of a similar car and the fact that the info in this thread indicates no problems after the TC is changed means I'm buying at the end of the lease.

All:

Just stumbling across this thread, and wondering if this issue may be one that's presenting two symptoms on my 2014 Cayenne Diesel.

Symptom 1: "slip" shifting into third. When the transmission shifts from second to third, it's very evident that there is some kind of slip going on. The revs build, speed builds, but it's not linear. Then something "locks", the revs drop, and speed continues building. This is all with the indicator still reading 3rd. This happens every time the vehicle shifts into third.

Symptom 2: When slowing and then re-accelerating, the vehicle "clunks" abormally when downshifting. This happens at times when downshifting to first, but also when slowing and just going to second. This does not happen all the time.

There are a lot of pages here and most of what I see symptom wise is referred to as a "misfire" or a "binding". Sorry for missing earlier threads on this but what are your thoughts? How can the dealer know for sure when diagnosing? Car is in for service now, would like to get it remedied.

Car has 60k miles.

Thanks.

I think symptom #1 is normal. I had a 2012 Touareg TDI and now have a 15 Cayenne diesel. I think you are feeling the tourque converter lock up. As far as the other stuff, not sure.

That is what it seems like. I had a 2016 as a loaner in August 2015, and it was decidedly better. If it is just the torque converter locking, I hope the reprogramming makes it like the 2016. That car was much better.

The 2016 Cayenne Turbo S we have has slowly joined the ranks of the problematic differential crowd. The issue started at about 26k and now is not drivable with 30k on it.

1. When backing out of the garage (turning) it clunks and jerks.

2. When accelerating forward it jerks and judders irregularly.

Flat bedded it to dealer for the second time on Friday... Waiting for a diagnosis...

The first time I took it to the dealer they ignored the obvious problem and told us to get new tires, even though there was only a tiny difference in the wear between them. Replaced them.

The second visit to the dealer resulted in the service manager ignoring my wife request to look at the car (while he sat playing games on his computer).

This is the third visit to the dealer for the same obvious problem. Is anyone else loosing confidence in the Porsche dealer service network?

Good that it's still under warranty.. the dealer will replace the transfer case. It sounds like one of the "early" failure cases - probably due to a manufacturing defect in the clutch assembly inside the case.

Sounds to me like you need a new dealer

so my 16 V6 just started to show sign of hesitation when switching from 2 to 3rd. It was so bad that it jerk back and forth a few times. I'm trying to setup an appointment with the dealer for diagnostic.

Just curious, how many miles or Kms. on your 16 V6?

31k miles.

Took my CTT (2013 with 59,000 miles) into dealer (Toms River, NJ Porsche) yesterday and had is diagnosed in about 5 minutes. Part will be here Thursday and fixed under CPO by Saturday.

For those looking for tell tales....

For me it was like I was driving over expansion joints when I accelerated from a standstill. The SA was a little young and I think the expansion joint thing threw him so I likened it to driving over a series of filled garden hoses.

At speed there were no issues.

No symptoms but changed fluid
 

Today I went ahead and changed the TC fluid. I haven't had any symptoms so far but wanted to be safe. Its a 2016 base V6 with 47,876kms./29,683miles. The fluid was pretty dark. I used the Porsche "63" fluid.

I'll be interested in hearing how this dealer (newish) treats you. Sounds good so far.. and CPO is a wonderful thing.

My 2014 Cayenne GTS is getting a new transfer case under warranty. Since buying it CPO a few months ago, the downshifts have been rough. When I brought the vehicle there on the original service visit a few weeks ago, suggesting from my RL reading a possible transfer case issue, the dealer service rep told me that a bad transfer case features rough up shifts, not downshifts. They did software tweaks to address my complaint. Now that I’ve taken it back with the same persistent issue, they say I’m getting a new transfer case.

BTW my CGTS has 15k miles.

Chalk me up for a new transfer case... got the TC replacement (cover under CPO) scheduled yesterday.

My Mom has a 2013 GTS we bought almost 1 year ago. It has 53,050 miles on it right now; 45,900 when we bought it. We were on a long road trip this past week, and I quickly realized something was not right. Once everything is at operating temperature, 2nd 3rd & 4th gears all exhibit the jerky stuttering and sometimes harsh upshifts. Upon my description to an SA @ Porsche Nashville, they plan to replace the TC. He said they even keep them in stock...

Don, what is the correct torque on the drain and fill bolts? Is it 13 ft.lbs.? Thanks for all your help on this forum.

Looking at used cayennes....is it possible to tell if the transfer case has been changed by looking at it? Some of the vehicles don't have complete records.

From the factory manual:


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...8e2c3a0e41.jpg

Err on the side of less..

Dropped car off on Wednesday on way to Stewart airport for a quick 3 day trip to Ireland. Part was supposed to arrive Thursday but came in on Wednesday.

Made arraingements for SA to leave car outside for me to pick up Sunday on way home from Stewart (for those on in NJ, all NJ car dealers are closed Sundays).

Car was done by Thursday (got a call and email) and right were it was supposed to be for pick up last night...washed and ready. SA will mail other key to me.

Another great experience from SA Rob and everyone at Toms River (Ray Catena) Porsche.

Car runs great! This is my 3rd experience with this outfit and all 3 have been spot on.

Can't recommend them enough, they are new but have a well trained group of techs that they've rotated from their other PCar dealerships.

So to recap, brought car in on a Monday )at about 4:30 pm), diagnosed in 5 minutes. Part ordered and arrived, one day earlier then promised, on Wednesday, work completed by Thursday.

A+

Thanks for the feedback on them. I haven't visited yet - sounds like I should..

For those on the fence. high possibility that i'm able to change the transfer case fluid faster then filling up 25 gallon fuel load on the vehicle (empty to full). It's that simple.

Possible TC symptom
 

Wondering if anyone else with a faulty TC experienced this symptom that I recently noticed: driving in 3rd gear under steady moderate acceleration, the engine revs drop about 300 RPM then climb steadily again. It feels exactly like the car is shifting to 4th gear, except it's not, it's still in 3rd. I noticed this more going uphill. It shifts through the other gears ok, although there's a little jerkiness from time to time.

2013 CTT with 58k miles, got CPO. Thanks in advance.

So a quick update from me. Car had to go in for an oil change and asked them to flush the transfer case fluid too. However, noise did seem to be getting worse though. Took it back to the specialist who had it for a few weeks to try and find out if it was anything else! Well it was worth a try at least. Anyway, we narrowed the search to the transfer case again and actually had the solenoid disconnected to test things out. Its amazing how noisy the transfer case is when it slowly builds over time. With the solenoid disconnected, the transfer case isnt in use and the car is effectively rear wheel drive. Anyway, it drove perfectly and quietly so we decided that we needed to replace the TC.

After a few weeks trying to find a suitable reconditioned unit, we went for a brand new unit. So unfortunately I am a statistic - a 2011 Cayenne S with just over 100,000 miles and a replaced transfer case. That said though, its quieter, smoother and I am so pleased its been done. Ok, so I dont like the cost involved, but the car is much better. I cant believe how bad things were getting, I guess its the gradual deterioration that gets missed.

Oh, and one final comment - 2 years warranty on the TC though, so thats something.

Can anyone who had transfer case replacement at dealer please post pictures of paperwork, curious if there is a new part number for the transfer case.

Was it 100k miles on original TC fluid ?

Kirill,

I posted my parts list over on this other thread, back when dealer replaced mine...

Post #79

https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...failure-6.html

=Steve

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...ce38729045.jpg
Here you are.

Don,

Wanted to add to your database:

2011 Cayenne S. Factory transfer case swapped out on 1/19/17 by the dealer as a warranty. Mileage 70,994. replacement part 958-341-010-HX. Assume Porsche Spec'd fluid pre-filled at the rebuilder. No vent line installed as it was prior to implementation or deployment

I think in Porsche world last two spaces in part number is for revision:

So looks like:
958-341-011-EX is for CT
another part numbers used is:
958-341-011-GX (i believe it's for V6)
958-341-010-HX (for V8)
Both parts are about 2500 and called "TRANSFER BOX READY F"

It looks like E or G suffix is meant to differentiate application
and X could be part revision.

there also
https://www.gossettparts.com/oem-par...-f-958341011gu
958-341-011-EU and 958-341-011-GU parts exist that are about 760$ and also called "TRANSFER BOX READY F" - so maybe dealers are running a clearance sale on flawed design TC

Not so sure about the ones ending with letters..

https://parts.porscheofannapolis.com...-f-958341011gu - has it for $560, but if you look at: http://sgnauto.com/products/cars/oem/porsche/page/245 - it gets more confusing. We need someone with PET up and running (Porsche Parts App..) to lookup the parts and id them on a diagram/layout parts drawing. The list price for them is only around $650-800. To me that's not a transfer case. I believe one seal and 1 bearing are available parts (only available) for the TC - wonder if that's what these are.

Add me to the list of successful transfer case oil change.
2014 Diesel S with just under 50 000 km. I live in a place with lot of rain and snow.
Symptom was a slight vibration, like driving on something small on normal acceleration in low gears. 2nd/3rd.
I picked it up rather early I think. My wife thought the car was perfectly normal but I knew better ;-)

Oil came out black as everyone else. Didn't smell burnt, rather like someone threw up.. yuck.
Improvement was immediate. No need for a 2nd oil change. When it's done you really notice it was not shifting smoothly.

If you don't DIY this, make sure the dealer has some transfer case oil in stock before driving there. They don't stock it, it's supposed to be a life long oil. They stock transfer cases instead :D

A big thank you for publishing all the info on this issue

If you under warranty - I think it's worth going to dealer and complaining of bad transfer case symptoms. You will either get a new one or it will be on the record that you had this issue while the warranty was still on.

Did my second transfer case oil change today while it was up on the lift getting the engine oil changed. The old oil coming out of it had about 6,000 miles on it - and didn't look awful, could still see through it although it was dark in color. Went with the Ravenol this time. The difference was again noticeable - I can't feel a gear change driving normally in "normal" mode - didn't try sport mode yet. Gotta order some new drain/fill plugs for it for the next change... the originals are still sealing, but the sealant on them is getting a bit thin. Tightened to 12ft/lb (spec is 13..) and no leaks. The Ravenol bottle makes a big difference in ease of refilling the case - smart design that works. Oh - noticed the symbol for what I think is Aisin-Warner. on the case.. a stylized A combined with a W. That would make sense since the transmission is an Aisin Warner.

Something is not right if you can feel a difference after 6000 miles on lifetime fluid.
Can you get oil analysis next time you change the transfer case oil - https://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Don, I thought you had said the spec. was 15ft.lbs. I torqued mine to 13 just to be safe. A little trick I learned from my best friend whe happens to be a retired Porsche trained tech through to the mid 90’s. Firstly he cleaned and then put some new sealer on the drain plug. When torquing the plug he set it at 11lbs. And then softly clicked the plug, Then set it to 12lbs., softly clicked again, then set it at 13lbs. and clicked again. He sort of snuck up on it to avoid any chance of overtorqueing or cracking the casing. Not a bad idea for us DIY’ers.

You're right.. https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...l#post14600649 - 13ft/lbs will work just fine (as will 12..)


https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...8e2c3a0e41.jpg

I would expect next time there might not be a difference. There are two possible causes for feeling a difference:

1. I used a different oil. The first change I did with the Porsche transfer-case fluid. It was a bit of a PITA to get and expensive. This time I used Ravenol, as easy as going on Amazon and ordering, and it's on my doorstep 2 days later. It's possible Ravenol has a different coefficient of friction than the factory oil - which could account for the slightly smoother feel.

2. The last change was after the original oil, with 71,000 miles on it was drained. There had to be some of the old oil trapped in the clutch pack (as evidenced by the color of the oil when it was drained) - some of that contamination may have caused a very slight roughness.

There were a number of people (on the 6speedonline thread - which is way more extensive than this thread) who reported the same thing, First change was better, second change was better yet again - and they did those changes rather close in miles - around 1,000 miles or so.

I had a Brookstone bottle with me - intending to capture some engine oil - but by the time the oil was done flowing was when I remembered I had it. Brookstone has tested a number of samples of the oil from other people, and drew no conclusions from their analysis. I think since they haven't done a "virgin" sample of the transfer-case oils we're using - they have nothing to compare the used samples with, except other used samples from other people. That makes the test relatively useless. I could talk to them about doing a virgin sample - but the Porsche stuff is $$ (and has changed formulation since most of our cases were initially filled), and even Ravenol is $32. If someone wants to fund the experiment, I've always found Blackstone quite cooperative.

I'm assuming you're talking about one of the 'spigot' kinds of plugs? Like the EZ Oil drain taps?

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...3ee265ef0f.gif

Is the thread size known for the transfer case? And is it a straight thread or does it taper?

No - but that wouldn't be a bad idea.. and a nipple fitting of some type for the fill plug. Dunno what the plug size is - I believe it has a very slight taper to it.

Just got back from the dealer, tc is shot. They ordered parts, but I won’t have time to get it fixed. 16 base with 31k miles.

Is it normal for transfer case to go bad at 15000 miles? Under acceleration I hear this thumping noise until 3rd gear, it’s a 2016 cayenne s model?

"Normal" - no. Uncommon - also no. It happens. That's early failure mode stuff - where a part inside the case was machined wrong when the case was built. It's under warranty? Let the dealer put a new TC in. BTW - the usual failure mode is slipping followed by grabbing under acceleration when the transmission shifts, particularly the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts.

Add mine to the Transfer Case issue. Mine is a 2015 Cayenne S with only 16k miles. I started feeling the jerking/slipping feeling from 2nd to 3rd. I could also hear it when turning the steering wheel slightly under low acceleration. I’ve only had it for a month. Took it to the dealer Monday and they tech immediately diagnosed it replacing the transfer case. I’m setup to get it replaced on Thursday. Ticks me off they designed these so faulty even in the newer generation 958.2s. Here’s picture of my new to me Cayenne S.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...94aa54c8a.jpeg

With the low mileage failures I don't think it's a design issue so much as an assembly/manufacturing issue. Your new case should be fine - go enjoy your Cayenne..

Just got my new to me 958.2 CTT CPO with 43 Km , Jan./2016 Build , shall I worry about the TC ?, asked the dealer to change the oil was told to enjoy it and not to worry.
the problem I live far away from the dealer and thinking about just pay for the oil change and get it over with.
I have no issues thus far with my short time driving it. except a small jerking down gear before stopping while in Sport+ mode
and one thing for sure unlike my old 06 CS no transmission bucking .

Yeah - dealers do that. Ask for the service manager - not the "Service Adviser" (who is there to sell service, but often doesn't do that very effectively.) The dealer doesn't care since the car is CPO and it would get a new TC if there were problems. More money in it for them if they change out the TC.

Since you're far from the dealer, start asking around to find the good foreign car independent in your area. Get them to change the fluid. Labor cost shouldn't be more than 30 minutes (including the time to put it on/off the lift.) Order up two new plugs for it from an on-line dealer, and a bottle of our suggested Ravenol oil. If the case ever does fail - don't mention the oil change to the dealer.. they'd likely use it to deny warranty coverage. FWIW - I was quoted several hundred dollars to have a dealer change the oil (free coffee and a carwash don't come cheap I guess..) and people have gotten quotes of up to $700 for what's basically 15 minutes worth of work.

That is a very good advice thank you for the encouragement, I thought about what you have proposed but got cold feet fearing of being denied coverage if something happened.
will buy two new plugs as suggested, lucky for me I know a gentlemen close by who did work on my old cayenne and he is very good.
much appreciate the help,

I also asked my dealer about changing the TC fluid and they said they wouldn’t bother. I chose to heed Don’s earlier comments about what happens if it fails after warranty..the dealer won’t pick up the tab. So I went ahead and changed it but used the Porsche fluid and took photos for back-up.

Tell him 12 ft/lbs on the plugs (spec is 15, but I'd be cautious.. 12 will work just fine.. trust me, I slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night [not really]..)

I would encourage anyone to make them change it before you buy it. Mine was a CPO but before I picked it up I asked them to please change and they did. I even sent them the link to this thread. I didn't get any push back whatsoever.

Does this thing look like transfer case rebuild kit: https://www.ebay.com/itm/ATC350-450-...-/263086908030

Parts diagram: https://awd.tech/pages/pl72atc-diagram

more parts: https://awd.tech/collections/pl72-atc-vag?page=1

Not that I am planning to buy it, but if they sell it - there must be a demand for it - I guess someone figured out how to rebuild the TC

Took my CPO 2013 CTT (64k miles) to Porsche dealer last week with the scraping-grinding-while-turning-sound. They implemented campaign WD31 - Re-Program Rear Diff Lock Control Unit but the noise came back within a day so i'm taking back in next week.

Do you have PTV Plus ? I do and i have what you're saying above. I had the differential flashed with the new update. I would say the sound is more like traction control kicking in.
I have ordered (picking up today) Porsche magical differential juice fluid. It's 1.2 qrts for the rear and .5 qrts for the front. I'm changing this weekend and i'll report back. Thus far i have done Transfer Case thinking it was that. I had no change in TC but i never had an issue with TC grind / rpms jumping.

I have PTV+ (along w/ PDCC) in my '12 CTT, and I've had the grinding in the left rear for quite some time now. feels like a old posi-traction gear mal-adjustment type thing. I've flushed/replaced all my Diff's oil, which had little positive affect. I'm STILL trying to figure that one out.

Also had my TC replaced under Good Will last Spring,.. which certainly did help the TC problems I was experiencing. But the grinding in the rear under slow turn conditions seems to be something completely different than TC. Although it has indeed been mistakenly discussed in "this" thread.

Yeah, has PTV. And i agree that it sounds like traction control ...like clutches slipping/chattering...they think its the diff. and not the TC.

Every 958 I've driven with the PTV+ option (including mine) has made that sound on occasion with tight, slow left turns. Mine has the new revised TC along with the other updated bits, and some time ago had the WD-31 campaign fix applied as well. It still does it on occasion though. I'm convinced it's nothing more than the locking differential clutch packs 'chattering', as I've experience numerous times in years past with various GM LSDs in F-bodies and Z06 Corvettes I've owned. Sounds and 'feels' identical. In GM's case, it's completely cured with the addition of the correct amount of GM's limited slip additive. I'm not certain if there's something that would work in Porsche's unit, but I'm sure the fluid for the PTV+ diffs has something in it that accounts for that (or is supposed to account for that anyway). I just really don't worry about it much anymore.

It's a very different symptom from a failing TC.

The GM fluid worked wonderfully in an '87 BMW 535i with LSD that I owned.. about half the bottle did the trick.

misery loves company then. Thanks for writing this up. This is exactly what I am experiencing,... although I would love to hear why there is a connection to PTV+,... given that all PTV really does is apply braking pressure to the inside wheels which are experiencing less traction. So how does that come into play when we hear & feel this noise on slow tight left hand turns? I just blame the LSD & not really the PTV.

Anyway,... I have been wondering if I could suggest to my dealership that they entertain an additive to the Diff oil.

=Steve

Porsche Magic stuff for PTV differential. ($35 a bottle, requires 2 bottles total for front and rear. 1.3 liter rear and .5 liter front)
I'll report back tomorrow when i have a chance of changing.
For the record: 2011 Cayenne S, 73k miles, PTV Plus, PDCC. I did the TC fluid change, my car has never had a TC issue. Flushed therefore it does not become an issue. I do have rear noise what sounds to me like traction control kicking in during left and right hand turns from stop lights(appears to come only from rear differential). I'm hoping by doing this fluid change, it will minimize the "traction control" feel kicking in.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...12846be8ac.jpg

Just had my transfer box replaced under warranty, 4.2 V8 diesel, 60,000 miles (2013)

Since it was under warranty - I guess a change of fluid wasn't tried? New isn't bad if it didn't cost you anything.

Update: For those with PTv Plus and PDCC that have the "crunching" / "traction control" noise coming from the rear differential. After changing the fluid - 90% + noise gone. I have only done about 30 miles of driving.

Recap: My car has had the "flash update" campaign perform, still had the noise. Purchased Porsche OEM fluid from picture aboive (part # 000043300037 ) . 1,3 liter rear and .5 liter up front.

Hi Steve. PTV+ equipped vehicles have a completely different rear differential unit versus the standard one installed in non-PTV Cayennes. The PTV+ system uses an electronic fully locking unit. So it's not only the automated braking pressures you mentioned as part of the PTV+ system, but different hardware as well.

Good to hear that. Next time my vehicle's at the dealer for an oil change, I think I'll ask them to change the PTV+ rear diff fluid as well and see if that eases the noise a bit, although mine doesn't do it too much anyway. I suspect like the GM LSD's, that fluid really does require replacement occasionally, despite what the service schedule states.

And as you noted, the WD-31 "flash update" campaign applied to mine as well some time ago, really does nothing for the PTV rear diff noise we've been discussing. I'm sure it serves some other purpose though.

Thanks CarGuy for that explanation. I did not know we had a different PTV differential.

Hey Don,... while I'm thinking about this,... do we want to take this discussion off-line from this TC thread? Although it is possible that Cayenne owners are getting confused on which sounds are coming from where,... and whether they should suspect their TC -vs- Differentials.....
... plus this may only be a PTV differential issue. I do not yet recall any non-PTV owners chiming in to say they are experiencing the same crunching from the rear or not. Your call on keeping this discussion here, or creating a new one.

Thanks F1 for the report out on positive results from the SAF Carbon Mod 300.37 oil.

=Steve

It went in for a sevice and they said it needed a new one, as it's under warranty with no excess (so all it meant was a couple of extra days without the car) I didn't argue!

I will, probably in about a week make a new sticky for PTV issues and move the posts here over to it. I want to do that at a real computer - right now I'm using an Asus Transformer, my travel, read-email computer, and the screen size and mouse aren't really conducive to doing it. Great suggestion, and having the thread separate from the TC thread will give it better exposure.

Just purchased a '14 S (see other threads) with 45K miles a few weeks back...it's not symptomatic (no noise or turning issues), but since it's a CPO car, I begged the dealership to do the TC fluid swap while it's in for other minor work. They said yes, so I'm very happy.

TXCOMT

Make sure they are using the latest Porsche TC fluid 000-043-305-63. Most dealers don't keep it in stock and will have to order it. When I had the TC fluid changed I provided the Porsche fluid to my dealer since they didn't stock it.

Good to know and thanks for the heads up! BTW, I was planning to change it once again with the Ravenol product after a few weeks, but this is still great advice.

TXCOMT

^^ same scenario for Differential fluid. They do not stock it as they have it "by the drum in the back" i was told.
Also, they do not ship fluids. Pickup only.

Just changed my TC w/ Ravenol - 2011 CTT 74852 miles

Is there any reason that people are not reporting these failures to the NHTSA? I checked the website and it is very easy to report, potentially helping lead to an investigation for a recall, yet there are really very few reports.
There is so much posted online about these failures and every dealer knows the problem before you even finish explaining it. It is a known and regular issue and silly that it is not warrantied beyond the original btb warranty..

https://www.nhtsa.gov/vehicle/2012/P...AWD#complaints
You can "report a problem" on the same website.

Is this something we should start a campaign for?

I was thinking about it too.
Can we justify it as safety issue ?

That's the catch - NHTSA recalls are only for "safety" related failures. It doesn't cover defective engineering or manufacturing except as it may cause injury or death to a human being. So far no one has reported their Cayenne stopping dead in traffic due to the transfer case being wonky.. they may behave oddly, but the vehicle can be driven safely.

I doubt very much if an NHTSA campaign of reporting the failure would lead to any action on the part of Porsche.

What is someone will keep driving on Transfer Case that is going bad - it should end up with total lock up or lost of acceleration?
Or vehicle spinning out of control when 2 axels going at different speeds?

There may be a way we can make a case that it is "potentially" a safety issue and manufacturer quietly trying to hide it by installing updated design of transfer cases in large numbers.

Hi all, just looking through this thread. I am considering a 2011 S with higher mileage (120,000). I would hope that the transfer case would have been done under warranty but it doesn't have any records. I will see if I can get a dealer to check to see if it has been done based on VIN.

Anything that I can check with a PPI, other than the driveability issues mentioned?

Check for wetness under the front carpets, a sign the cowl drains and/or AC condensate drains are blocked. Water under driver's side front carpet can corrode the main wiring harness causing many strange electrical gremlins. If the transfer case part number is legible on the car that might be a clue that it was changed. Good Luck.

I'd suggest reading the sticky on buying a 958. Most of the major issues are addressed there.

A previously replaced transfer case does nothing to convince (me) anyone that it won't happen again. We're now on our 4th transfer case replacement between 2 cars and 7 year's ownership (3 on the last car alone). It doesn't seem to matter the model or mileage. People here have suggested replacing the fluid. Well, one of our cases lasted on 11K miles. I guess that means changing the fluid every 10K is required? 7.5K? 5K? Sounds like a complete re-design is needed instead, which probably wont happen as we end the lifecycle of this model. We can file this with the '70s 2.7l motor failures, Carrera chain tensioners, IMS failures.....

Where are you located, what kind of weather conditions and what kind of driving was involved?

Restore,
Did your replaced transfer cases get the vent tube fix?

Rob

How did you do that? I mean - please give us more info on your driving conditions. There are people here with perfectly fine factory transfer cases that can't get an updated design under warranty because the factory case is fine.
There is an updated transfer case and vent kit - I think it became available in 2017 - anything before that probably got the same failure prone design

I'm on the East coast. I'd have to check records but don't remember snow or real frigid weather ever involved. Car's are only suburban-driven. Never sport mode, mostly my wife but me on weekends. No teenage kids or valets involved. I did pull a trailer for 1000 miles a few months prior to one failure but never before or since. To be fair the vent issue was possibly not known with the second-to-last replacement but I was always told I had the most up-to-date version and on the 3rd replacement I got under the car and verified the date stamp which was up to date; not a 2011 unit. On this last invoice it did mention the vent change for the first time so.....I'll report back after #5 if it continues (I'm CPO'd to 100k miles (or else I wouldn't have purchased a second Cayenne). It would be interesting to know if anyone has had a failure after the vent change.

Hows humidity level where you live?
Also how far do you go on a set of tires - may be slipping tire on one axle contribute to transfer case failures. (i once drove RWD Mercedes to the point rear tires were basically slick with barely visible traces of tread)

I moved from the NE to SE. I'd say normal type of humidity with the first two failures but much more humid with the last two. I got 50K miles out of initial tires and traded at 92K on second set (I think two failures were on stock original Michelins and 3rd failure on Pirellis. Current vehicle has 29K miles on original tires. None were bald except normal wear. We were original owners of first car with 3 failures and purchased this one with 15K on it (now with it's first/our 4th failure). Interior was immaculate and not abused. I've thought about this but my own experience seems to show there is no as yet pattern to discern. At first I thought it was a first year model thing as we bought a 2011. Obviously this is not the case.

Annoying that probably Porsche knows whats wrong, but instead pretends that there is no issue at all

My 2017, built August 2016, still had the old style vent and they don't proactively do anything until the transfer case fails. They didn't have the fluid, so couldn't do a change for me when I was in for an oil change. I'm going to have it changed at the next interval. I don't know if anyone's had a failure after the latest vent change.

It doesn't sound like there was anything atypical about your driving conditions. Not that there should be any sensitivity! I don't think anyone here has pinned down anything specific about the causes, at least not that I've read here.

My transfer case had to be replaced on my 2012 Cayenne Turbo at about 60,000 miles.
In retrospect I noticed the beginning of the problem at around 47,000 miles while it was still under warranty.
It was a thumping sound made initially only at slow speeds when turning the steering wheel tight.
I thought it might be tire scrub or just an intermittent noise.
Since my nearest Porsche dealer was over 2 hours away, I blew off having it checked out.
It was a $4200 mistake as it was well out of warranty by the time the problem became obvious.

It's easy to not notice a failing transfer case at the onset so you're not alone. Initially the symptoms are non-specific and very intermittant where a few days and drives go by without any problem. I've found the symptoms seem more prominent once a number of miles have been done (on a given outing) thus heating up the case. Classically there is stumbling on moderate acceleration in gears 3 and 4 (as described here by others). It's similar to fuel starvation, fouled injectors or a bad miss in timing. If you're really sharp you can notice a rumble like going over a buckboard or rutted road when moving slow in reverse or 1st gear and with the steering hard over to one side. I've usually waited before bringing it in so as not to have to argue with the service advisor. If anyone is nearing the end of warranty or a 2 year warranted replacement don't wait. People here have asked about what would happen if the unit is not changed. I asked our SA and the only response I got was akin to 1930's motoring verbiage: "failure to proceed."

Submit your case to NTHSA - if Porsche will get off their butt and does a recall - you should get reimbursement.
https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/
Make sure to say that failed transfer case could cause 4 wheel lockup and dangerous situation while driving.

One more point to help anyone trying to trouble shoot. On my receipt it states,"...unplugged the transfer case CU and test drove again and the jerking was gone." I'm not sure where the connection is or whether this throws a code but it seems like a clear diagnostic point being used by the dealer to determine a bad transfer case.

I posted to 6speed but will here as well.

You can add me to the list as well.
2012 Cayenne S
50,300 miles

Shudder not just on turns but once it started it was all the time. Around 2nd to 4th gear mainly. Diagnosed at dealership and replaced with the new design, new vent line and reprogrammed. Cost was paid for by Autonation 90 day used car warranty - thankfully!

A couple of notes-
1) The SA at Porsche West Houston has been there a long time and he is good. He noted that issue has been an overheating issue and that the new design has fixed it. We shall see but at least they are acknowledging and attempting to address it with a new design as many have seen. I asked why it hadn't been recalled and he sort of exhaled as this probably comes up every day. Unfortunately so far Porsche is claiming it is not a safety issue but just a quality of driving issue so they have yet to offer the recall. Who knows perhaps one day they will so I'd save my receipts just in case.

2) I corresponded with a super guy in Lithuania who claims these cases can likely be repaired. His company does all sorts of European transmissions and transfer cases. The items he noted that were typical fails were the clutch discs and the chain. He did make a point that we needed to verify the particular unit before proceeding. There are numbers on the bottom of the transfer case and from there he could identify whether his company could help. The two likely cases are the PL72ATC which is the active transfer case and the most common option and the other is a PL72T with a Torsen differential. The company name is AWD Tech. I have not used him but if my replacement was not covered I was going to try them out - assuming the fluid swap didn't help. He was very responsive and knowledgeable and if you have a good local transmission shop they should be able to break it down and replace with the AWD Tech parts if needed.

Has anyone tried to rebuilding one of these?

Also FWIW I just filed a complaint with the NHTSA. I'd recommend others do the same. It doesn't take long to file and while Porsche wants to say this is not a safety I argue otherwise. The car does not accelerate properly which is dangerous when merging with traffic.
My repair was paid for but I don't care. This should not be a customer pay $5k repair when it is a known engineering failure.

The two likely cases are the PL72ATC which is the active transfer case and the most common option and the other is a PL72T with a Torsen differential. The company name is AWD Tech.

Has anyone tried to rebuilding one of these?[/QUOTE]

I've had my case apart and took pictures at that time. When I look at the pictures I don't see any part numbers that correspond to your post. The closest I can come is a series of numbers 485 1122337MPTL. The case is a 95834101008 FYI. Where would you find the numbers you mention.
I may open mine up again if the stepper motor does not fix my problems. I should know by Friday COB. Thx

I posted the link to their website couple weeks ago https://awd.tech/collections/pl72-atc-vag?page=1

Looks like you will need about 500$ in parts to completely refresh the transfer case

I've had my case apart and took pictures at that time. When I look at the pictures I don't see any part numbers that correspond to your post. The closest I can come is a series of numbers 485 1122337MPTL. The case is a 95834101008 FYI. Where would you find the numbers you mention.
I may open mine up again if the stepper motor does not fix my problems. I should know by Friday COB. Thx[/QUOTE]

From awdtech site: This kit fits only if your number starting with 95834101

So their parts set is correct - https://awd.tech/collections/pl72-at...tc-bmw-porsche

What is the problem you experience?

If you have the actuator, perhaps that is what you are calling the stepper motor, then it is likely the ATC. As for the numbers I quoted you won't find those on the unit. The numbers I provided are the actual model of the transfer case from the manufacturer - not the Porsche numbers. There is a badge on the bottom of the unit with some numbers on it - etched below some raised text that says MADE IN AUSTRIA. If the numbers are still legible you can send those to AWD and they will let you know. The easiest way I corresponded with him was via Ebay but I can ask for a direct link. They do have a website as well but the Ebay messaging worked well. See pics below and the Ebay link for the clutch friction discs. He also has the chains.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/263086908030?ul_noapp=true

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...f9d9d69ca9.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...ef51c4114a.jpg


And here was one of his responses which explains some of the specifics:
-----------------------------------

Hello,

Nice to receive your question.

Let me answer in short with most important information.

1) 958th may be equipped with different transfer cases. The most significant differences you should find out - does it has actuator? If yes, this is PL72ATC - Active Transfer Case (the most common option). Otherwise - you have a PL72T transfer case with Torsen differential.
2) PL72ATC has 2 significant modification - 1" or 1.25" chain (width).
3) Useful diagrams: https://awd.tech/pages/pl72atc-diagram, https://awd.tech/pages/pl72t-diagram
4) Most common issues with PL72ATC are wear of clutch and stretching of chain. The PL72T's common fault is stretching of chain.

The symptoms you have described seems like worn-out clutch but I suggest to replace it together with chain if your t/c equipped with 1" one.
We have both the clutches and the chains listed here, but chains are currently out of stock until about 5th of January.
After rebuild of mechanics you should update software of transfer case ECU at the dealer or maybe at someone who has PIWIS. I mean exactly update of software, not adaptation procedure.

Also we can offer factory rebuilded transfer cases for much better price than it may be offered by dealer.

Regards,
Andrew

------------------------------------------


Again, I had mine replaced but there should be a better option for people that are not covered under warranty. I am hopeful this helps but if not it was at least worth a look.
Cheers-
Stephen

Thanks SCB71 will take a look.

Stephen,

Thanks for sharing. Great information.

Could you ask Andrew about the vents kits, what lubricant he puts in his re-manufactured units he sells direct to customers and any advice he has about increasing the longevity of our transfer cases.

It'd really be good to hear what's specifically leading to the failures of the automatic ones. We know the die and potentially moisture contaminating the fluid is a leading problem... but what else?

I agree that we know that they "die". There are several reasonable assumptions about why they die, but we have an opportunity to hear from someone who remans these things. So far I think I have read two failure modes from Andrew: Chains and clutch packs. Looking forward to reading more of Andrew's experiences. Cheers!

I just filled my complaint with NHTSA. The final event leading up to the transfer case failure was a safety issue. While doing some reading through the Manufacturer's Communications, I found two interesting ones, both attached.

1. It seems that back in October of 2016, Porsche told the dealers that prior to installation from inventory, they were to update the transfer case with a kit that included three parts: boot over the front shaft, vent and a vent line. My transfer case was replaced in January of 2017, but the updated kit was not included. Well, back to the dealer.

2. In November of 2016, Porsche identified a potential electrical issue at the connectors. Since my dealer did not read the first communication, I am going to bring this to their attention too.

File those complaints with the NHTSA folks. It will take all of 5 minutes. Stick to the facts and if you feel it is safety related, communicate that too!!! No dealer likes to see repeat issues from multiple different customers on a Federal Website.

I absolutely enjoy they way the Cayenne S drives and handles. Just wish it was as reliable as the other three vehicles in my stable.

If I lease a 958 2018 Platinum Edition Cayenne, I am guessing that I'll have the redesigned transfer case. Is that correct?

My guess is it has a different transfer case than mine since it is a lower displacement engine, maybe part number 958-341-013-01. No part numbers for 2017 and 2018 were available at the parts portals.

I would search 2016 and 2017 NHTSA complaints. I found a transfer case complaint from 2016 in a few seconds. Take a look at the part numbers. My 2011 S 958-341-010-08 is used up through at least 2016 (in Turbo S).

You might call PCNA and ask them.

Is there an easy way to check the part number on the car I might lease?

Get the VIN and ask the parts department what the part number is. But this will not answer your original question. There does not appear to be a specific transfer case part number that is a problem.

With a new car lease you will get a 4 year warranty or leasing of a "used" one should get you a 6 year warranty (4 + 2 CPO). So no worries.

Thanks. I was just hoping to avoid inconvenience in the case I had to have a repair done or a safety issue.

2014 Cayenne base. 29,300 Mi
I had hesitation on 3rd and 4th gears merging into highways, going uphill and on lower gears going in sharp turns. Called the dealer and the adviser felt like it was transfer case right away.
Below is my invoice:

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0c4a7af03.jpeg

Transfer case replacement invoice

@FirstCayenne: Was your transfer case just replaced? My transfer case (2nd replacement) was replaced by the previous owner back on 8/1/17 @ 69k miles and the work order shows a different part number for the transfer case (958-341-011-EX). The same repair order shows the same vent line part number as above (958-301-047-10) and other associated hardware that you've shown on your invoice. Prior to that, the transfer case was replaced @ 61k miles (part # 958-341-010-HX) with no vent line. That repair replaced the original transfer case from the factory and only lasted 8k miles before giving up. It would be nice if we could keep a list of the part number revisions at the top of the thread to see which part numbers Porsche has gone thru for these transfer case replacements.

According to the invoice yes the case was replaced with the same part# but additional Vent Line, spacer ring, clamping sleeve...


Which part# fixes the issue permanently?

@FirstCayenne: It's anyone's guess whether the current replacement transfer case and associated hardware (vent line, etc) will be a permanent solution to this ongoing problem, but supposedly the vent line is the fix for it. I just purchased my Cayenne and am hoping my transfer case replacement lasts a long time....

Just a quick FWIW - for those thinking of changing their TC oil - I do not recommend Ravenol. I am not happy with how the transfer case behaves using it. I'll be switching back to the new Porsche fluid - hopefully before I leave California for NJ in a week or so. There is a definite deterioration in shift quality with the Ravenol.

YMMV - but bet it doesn't (other people have reported similar..)

Don,

Does your T-Case have the vent line and shaft boot installed? Hope to hear a positive report from your fluid change. Any thought about sending a sample for analysis?

No it doesn't - but I've also been driving it in LA for the past few weeks - and it hasn't rained once. Supposed to rain tomorrow and the next day (badly needed rain actually - the entire city looks dusty from ash from the fires..) As far as sending a sample - I don't know what we'd be looking for since we also would need an analysis of a "virgin" oil sample to compare it to. My feeling right now is that it drove better with the new Porsche fluid than with the Ravenol. Other people have come to the same conclusion. The cost difference isn't really much (Porsche fluid is around $60/liter, Ravenol around $30) but I did find the convenience of the Ravenol oil bottle design with the built in tubing/spout attractive.

Not sure how much longer I'll be in LA - but if it looks like more than a few more days (visiting my son and daughter-in-law) I might explore finding a shop that can change it for me - provided I can get new fill/drain plugs and a liter of the Porsche oil fairly quickly.

Any links to expand on other reports of not liking how the Ravenol behaves? I was going to use it when doing the T/C and Diffs (also Ravenol-MDL) in the next few weeks.

Don,
My experience with the local dealer was they did not stock the new TC oil. I had to supply it to them. YMMV.

Good luck,

Rob

You can pick up from Pelican Parts in Harbor City, CA if you in a rush - https://www.pelicanparts.com/support/ContactUs.htm
https://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/SuperCat/1082/POR_1082_BASMIS_pg4.htm#item16
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/000-043-300-37-OEM&SuperCat=Y&SVSVSI=1082.htm

Some were here, some were on 6speedonline and some were personal communications. A bit of searching will turn up several instances where people went from old oil to Ravenol and symptoms got better but still were present, they then went to the new Porsche oil (cheapest price I saw was $47 - which seems to be pretty standard) and symptoms went away. I wasn't certain if this was because the remainder of the old oil got flushed with the Ravenol or not, but my own experience is - I won't use it again.

Feel free to use whatever you want to in your vehicle - it's your $$. Balancing a replacement TC vs an additional $30 for a better oil - I come down on the side of the better oil. But that's probably just me.

YMMV..

Not at all a surprise - but they certainly could have ordered a liter for you. That's why I won't bother with a dealer on this. People have gotten quotes of $400 to change the TC oil. That's just silly for 10 minutes work.

Dealers buy oil in 25 to 50 gallon drums. You can bet they don't dump the drum and replace it every time Porsche changes oil specs. They'll continue using it - with the justification that it was good enough when they bought it.

Kinda my plan actually - but just wrote them to see if they want to add to their DIY library with a TC oil change for a 958.. mine. Problem is I'm visiting and don't have a handy garage to do it in, or I'd be sliding under it myself. They also have the fill/drain plugs which I want to replace this time. Waiting to hear back from them - if you know anyone there and want to drop them a line - I'm available whenever, especially since it's raining today and tomorrow.

I used to have success with small mom and pop oil change places - the ones with "drive over" pit - I come in during slow hours bring my fluid and then direct the guy what to do, they usually happy with 20$ for service.

I am happy to report that my dealership was able to agree with me that my transfer case was failing. I am pretty sure the first time they tried to diagnose my problem was on a cold morning as I had dropped off the vehicle a few days before. I found that the problem is more noticeable when everything is up to temperature, and I believe they took it out cold and assumed it was fine. So, anyone going to the dealership, make sure your car is at operating temperature for a proper diagnosis. Now I just hope my new TC holds up for a good long time!

Figured I would add myself to the casualty list.

2011 Porsche Cayenne S - 100k miles

Issues started when wheel speed sensors went bad and was constantly causing crazy torque vectoring errors, hesitations and all kinds of craziness until we got it back home (was almost 1k miles from our indie) and to the shop. 1800$ later all wheel speed sensors were replaced and issues seemed to be resolved. 3k miles later and a thumping started appearing. Went back to indie shop who told me they have no idea whats wrong, no codes, etc. I read on here about transfer case issues and the thumping described was what i was experiencing. Asked to have the TC fluid changed, did not resolve the issue per the indie. On my way to pick up from the shop now. Was quoted 4800 to replace the TC.

Does anyone know if the TC in the Cayenne S crosses with any other cars? I cannot seem to find a part number anywhere. Also is it possible to replace the clutches in them instead of a full rip and replace?

Few posts back in this tread - https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...l#post14640984

There are repair parts available, but so far no one from US came forward and said they did successfully rebuild TC, but I am sure there are shops in Europe that rebuild TCs and don't brag about it on the internet.
So you want to get 300$ worth of parts and see if you can replace the clutches and save few grand ? If we autopsy one broken TC - we can figure out repair path for fraction of what dealer chargers.

That is my thought. It is absolutely ridiculous that Porsche has ignored this issue and wants to throw a 4,000 repair bill at someone for their incompetence. If this was the 1st gen Cayenne I would say learning curve but that car was around or almost 8 years. If I can indeed find the parts for the internals I will see if I can get the TC tore down and rebuild. I seen videos of a shop in Germany doing just this, although he didnt go into detail as to what the issue was just a rebuild time lapse.

Porsche did cheapen out on the all-wheel-drive system for 958 compared with 955/957 - but they did go too cheap, hence the falling TC, their cost is probably 300-400$ for the complete TC and 100-300$ in labor charges, the other $3500 on the $4000 repair is profit
Replacement Internal parts are available, my understanding is "noise"=bad bearings, "jerking\slippage"=bad clutch disks, good shop should be capable of replacing clutch disks and adding the vent line

Follow up to my earlier post. Took the '11 Cayenne S in for its annual safety checks and coolant smell hunt (still no source identified, yet), and while it was there I asked them to look into the Porsche Communication from Oct 2016 directing its dealers to fit the vent kits during all future R&Rs. Picked up the car and they showed me a communication that was effective in Jun 2017. So I left my copy of the NHTSA document with them and asked that the service manager research it again since i had pointed it out to them before I brought it in for service. Received a communication from the service manager today that they had made a mistake and that the 3 part kit would be installed, along with a fluid change, when my Cayenne goes in for its news cam shaft adjusters ... next week. Here is the info from the NHTSA that I shared with them:

Doesn't sounds like much for the "new type" conversion. Just 10$ worth of plastic

The Mercedes G-Wagens have these type of vent systems and on our G-Wagen forum there are zero issues with water contamination (both diffs, transmission and transfer case). Even though the transfer case designs are very different, if Porsche reduces one nasty variable, water, then it is a step forward. Time will tell on the factory 2016 and newer that had them installed from the factory. The rest of us off warranty folks, we will fend for ourselves and try to get Porsche to take more responsibility for these transfer cases than they have so far. Strength in numbers.

Haven't checked in here for a while as I've only been really in the Variocam thread lately, but saw Don make mention of the updated Porsche fluid and being happier with it in a facebook Cayenne group so I figured I'd get myself semi-up-to-speed on what's gone on in here.

Mine is still in for the cam adjuster failure, I'll be calling Monday to ask about the updated vent kit, and seeing if they can get that done while it's there as I forgot to mention when I last spoke to them last week.

My TC showed no symptoms of failure, but I changed it out for the Ravenol and have driven on that for roughly 5-6k miles still showing no issue. Come spring I may change it out for the new fluid to be on the safe side if it seems to hold up better long-term. I'll be interested to hear others' feedback. I'll likely have the crack in the rear cover welded if possible when I do that, and if I can find out more about the rebuild, just go ahead and do that at the same time to prevent future failure.

This makes me wonder how many - if any - are out there with higher mileage and zero failures. When I get it back I may visit the dealer it was serviced at prior to my ownership to see if they can tell me if it was replaced at any point, or had the fluid changed regularly.

I have so much to learn about this. We recently bought a 2012 Cayenne S with 150,000 kilometers on it. The driveshaft was out of balance so I put a new drive shaft in it and the exact same day I started getting a code saying faulty all wheel drive system. When the rear wheels spun on the ice the front wheels would stop receiving power. I took it back to the garage and now they tell me it needs a new transfer case. When I put it into manual 4-wheel drive lock everything works. Does anybody have any insight for me on this? The part to by new is $4,700 Canadian. Obviously I feel like throwing up.

what's up folks, I need some help and/or advice

Recently bought a 2011 base -- I did some research on it and it was a CPO until 100k miles. We bought it with 109, current miles is 114

Within the last few days we have these symptoms:
- when turning at medium speeds, speed turns there is what feels like a slip - hard to describe but feels like what it would feel like if you went to make a turn in a 4x4 Fguaged150 with the 4x4 engaged
- when under normal to heavy acceleration, the vehicle hesitates. It does not accelerate smoothly, like the start of a misfire condition, but, I replaced the plugs and coils with Behr and the correct plugs
- no codes, pending or set

Is there the start of a bad xfer case?

The unit was placed at 90k (not sure the miles) under CPO with the previous owner. The unit was replaced but NOT WITH the vent tube unit as it was not available yet

Is this a possible faillure due to fluid? Am I scaring myself for no reason?

thoughts?

thanks!

It would certainly do no harm to change the fluid.. and I'd suggest using the Porsche fluid (PN ends with "63") and replace the fill/drain plugs while you're doing the job. If the unsmooth condition is worst in the 2-3, or 3-4 shift - chances are it's the transfer case clutch slipping. Unfortunately - parts replaced under a Porsche warranty do not carry the 2 year Porsche parts replacement guarantee. They are only warrantied until the end of the warranty period, and since this PiGGY is out of CPO - the onus will be on you to pay for fixing it.

Good luck! Hope the fluid fixes it - it has for a lot of people.

Yea....ugh, I knew what it was the second my wife reported it to me....I was trying to be hopeful, but I knew. I already ordered the plugs and I got the OE Supplier fluid Pelican and will light a candle and see what happens. Am I ahead to get the Porsche fluid? My experiance in 25 years of working all types of vehicle is once you get toa certain level, fluid is fluid, as long as it is correct fluid.

I got

Transfer Case Fluid - Shell TF-0870, (1 Liter)

Part #: 000-043-301-36-M1199

No - that's not the correct fluid. I guess you got the same guy I got when I first called Pelican about fluid (I was picking it up since I was in LA..) Despite giving him the actual Porsche PN - he insisted that it didn't come up in HIS database as being for the 958 Cayenne and he refused to sell it to me - because I said "transfer case".. He also sounded quite confused.

I eventually called back and got someone else who was perfectly happy to sell me what *I friggin asked for.." without an argument. The Porsche fluid comes in a bottle labeled by PORSCHE (go figure!), there are 850cc's instead of a full liter because the case TAKES 850cc. The part number IS given above in the thread.

This is from my order receipt from Pelican:

so is that for the xfer or for the trans? Bcs that is trans fluid, no xfer case fluid...fun fun fun

I am not sure if it matters but mine is a base, V6

2011 S, 189,000 kms. Just received all service records and transfer case is original. No records of fluid being changed. I have a little rubbing noise and vibration in the steering wheel when throttle is released at 45-65 mph for a few seconds then goes away. I will replace fluid and see if it improves. Otherwise no hesitation or any other transfer case symptoms.

New 2011 owner with this issue
 

Bought a 2011 S with just over 50k about 2 weeks ago. Did not notice I had this issue until like day 2 driving but quickly found this thread. Mine had the typical symptoms although I didn't hear it. I got fluid locally from my Carquest guy since I didn't want to wait for shipped stuff. It was listed in their system for this car, Labeled BMW DTF 1. Not sure if this is actually right but figured better than what was in there. Changed it out and it improved a good bit within 50 miles local driving. After maybe 300 it seems just about fine except for 2 things. One, it's always had a bit of a bearing sort of sound that I can feel in the steering wheel on the highway - at times. Most pronounced is on decel but present in other situations as well. This doesn't seem to have changed at all since the fluid change. Second, I put a passenger in the car yesterday for a quick ride a few blocks and was pretty sure I felt the original symptoms again just be adding a 200lb person.

Guess I'm wondering what input anyone has, if any. I'm equally concerned with what seems like a bearing groan as with the rest of it. I'll probably talk to some locals to me, tranny guys, Porsche guys, and see about chances of actually repairing. Meantime I'll check the thread again for the best fluid and give it another change.

Glad to have the resource.

Dealer here (NoVa) quoted $5100 to replace. Just crazy IMO.

Mine does same thing on initial deceleration, most pronounced between 45-65 mph. I just got the Porsche branded t case fluid and I will also change the fluid in the front diff.

Does your car have servotronic? Mine does and I was wondering if it's something related to that.

Hmm, since I don't know what this is I'm guessing not? Been thru 300+ pages of owners manual and don't see reference to it. I assume it's a steering assist.

I'm pretty bummed. I work on cars and this aspect just feels lousy. Changes with the pitch of the car and all that. Feels like a plain old bad bearing somewhere to me. I'm so new to it, this is basically a transaxle isn't it?
I can't imagine that fluid is going to change it but definitely need to isolate. Does not feel steering related in that that's not when it really changes at all.

No - not at ALL a transaxle. There is a separate transmission, separate transfer case, and separate front and rear differentials. It is a true full-time 4-wheel-drive system, not a modified front-wheel drive with rear drive patched on - as is used by a lot of SUVs. Servotronic is a variable assist steering system where the amount of assist is changed depending on vehicle speed. At low speeds - lots of assist, higher speeds less assist = better road/steering feel.

Thanks for the clarification. Love that. And probably better for my situation!

Plug your VIN in place of the one at the end of the URL to get your option codes.

https://admin.porschedealer.com/repo...AA29973S624062

Servotronic is listed as 1N3 Variable Assist power steering. Mine is whiney especially at low speeds, was wondering if the noise at speed may be related. I searched here and we aren't the only ones with this sound or symptom.

I'm curious, if just a fluid change actually fixes the problem, why doesn't the dealer just change the fluid for $45 versus change the whole transfer case for 100x that? What's the longest mileage the fluid change has kept the thumping/rough shifting at bay? I think your Ravenol only lasted 4000 miles, right?

You're correct. I went back to factory fluid - drove it about 4,000 miles home - and it's up to a bit of mischief again. Not so awful that I'm immediately planning on replacing the case - but enough that I'm happy I still have 3 years and 15,000 miles left on my extended warranty. I suspect I'll be using it..

So interesting (and depressing) that these clutches get so "overworked" that they degrade the oil so quickly that the symptoms return relatively soon. :(

Also, you found the factory oil did not hold up any longer than the Ravenol, correct?

I wonder which iteration of the transfer case will finally not have this problem. Anyone known to have a failure of the most recent transfer case part version?

I'm hesitant to say if the factory fluid "failed" that quickly - or if the transfer case wore more when it had the Ravenol in it - and the factory fluid can't fix it now. Right now I'm still suggesting people use the factory fluid if they decide to change the transfer case fluid. In driving it today I paid very close attention to the shift quality and for any odd feelings - and can't say I noticed any. I can feel the shifts a bit - but I feel all of them - not just the 2-3, 3-4. I'm giving thought to resetting my transmission adaptations. As far as I can find with the iCarScan - there is no reset for the transfer case except for the oil wear indicator number, that I think is calculated by the amount of power that has gone through the transfer case. As far as I know - I don't think that changes any computer control of the case - but I might as well try it and see if there is any real change in performance.

Hi Kramer- Indeed I did last night and came to report I do have Servotronic. No wonder it's sooo easy to steer in parking lots. I'm going to totally agree I feel mine at low speeds like between stoplights and such. It is somewhat like a power steering pump gone dry but doesn't groan when working the wheel back and forth. Definitely on normal around town and decel on the hiway. Not sure of the speed range there. My oil change to the TC hasn't really held up at ~400 miles and clearly had no effect on the weird feedback to the steering wheel. I think it feels and sounds like a differential gear setup worn or out of adjustment.

I'm not sure which bugs me more, the TC or the feedback. It's both.

I also feel like I have a lazy torque converter. Sometimes from stop it isn't ready and I get a firm engagement after I hit the pedal. Anyone else?

My first Porsche. :)

Don - sorry to hear the Porsche fluid didn't seem to fix it. Glad you have that warranty.

Mine doesn't seem to be behaving badly yet, but reading that is making me want to change my Ravenol out again sooner rather than later. Slightly worried about doing so with the crack I dingus'd into the rear cover the first time. Maybe taking more care with a non-junk torque wrench set properly and I'll be able to get one more fluid exchange without needing to weld it, or using a fluid extraction pump through the fill hole. (I know, that won't get all of it, but it may get enough of the contaminated/deteriorated fluid out to prolong it's life) However I do it, I'd like to make sure it's in decent health, as I'm supposed to be taking part in a snow-hill-climb event late March, and April 1st is opening day for Silver Lake Sand Dunes.

I still haven't found much (anything) regarding doing the rebuild. I've sent an email to AWD.TECH (Lithuanian company selling the parts and rebuilt transfer cases) to see if they can help with some more information regarding the rebuild procedure. I've never rebuilt a transfer case myself yet, and these seem more complex than a generic unit, so it's not a procedure I'd feel comfortable tackling blindly. I'll be sure to update with what they say.

edde - I get a firm engagement occasionally from a standstill. Sometimes feels like the motor and transmission mounts are allowing too much play, but my paranoia tells me it's the transfer case.

With a PIWIS, when performing the transfer case oil service function, the wear integrator parameters get reset (all but the roll-over counter) but it also performs a "forced calibration" procedure as well.

If no one minds I'd like to offer a couple of thoughts about torque and wrenches from my experience. I would never use a clicker type wrench on low torque 30 ft lbs or under -and even then if they're not known to be accurately calibrated? 75-150 ft lbs, ok. Otherwise no. If it doesn't click when it needs to I'm potentially in real trouble. I use a 3/8 drive bendy style mostly, they're actually pretty consistent. And I still get a feel to what I'm messing with. I'm less likely to overdue something since I'm not relying on the click. And I'm mostly concerned with torquing big things that can't be short.
Second, torque specs are often based on threads that are treated a certain way. Clean, chased with a tap, oiled, moly-lubed, etc. Our TC has a thread sealant so perhaps it's based on that stuff on new parts but in any case, it's a tapered thread so it is going to seal pretty easily. It really shouldn't crack a case but it certainly is possible. I didn't find a stop when reinstalling mine so it isn't clear where to stop. I could have put more on it, but it's not backing out. Take a good pic of it before starting if you aren't confident for whatever reason. But I never use a clicker on smallish stuff. I learned by putting a clicker on a 5 ft lb bolt and the head just twisted off like a bottle cap.

projekt-h - that is an interesting thought. I kind of figure a transfer case is in my near future so in the scheme of things that would be great for me.

I need to figure out to attach a stethoscope to my drivetrain components while I'm going 10 mph. See what roars.

Eddie - good idea with the stethoscope. Is the noise at all gear/engine speed related? Have you tried shifting into neutral and coasting when you hear it? One thought - given your description of it - is tire noise. Some tires are noisy (the Michelin Latitudes that came on my pig were..) If the noise is basically road speed related - it's possible tires are to blame.

And on the torque wrench - I agree in this case unless you have a good Snap-On dial low-torque wrench. I have a 1/4" drive one that's good for inch-pounds. 144 in/lbs = 12ft/lbs. When I changed it in California - I used a 3" long simple Allen wrench to hand tighten them "snug".. knowing that with 3" I'm not going to be over-torqueing them.

Post #'s 112 & 115 in this same thread, for picture of inch/pound torque wrench. I agree, everyone should have one.
.... keep in mind it is the handle that makes it so precise. The handle pivots on a center pin, which allows the tool to use the exact length from the socket (to give your reading). You can see the pin in the pic in post # 115....

Quick jump link:
https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-...er-case-8.html

=Steve

Yes indeed, I have thought about tires, these are Pirelli Scorpion 265/50 19's in very new condition. I would say it seems more load related than speed at least on the highway. The car is still new to me but I am getting more comfortable every day - for testing purposes. Other than rotating I'm not sure how I'm going to firm that idea up.

I should have added a caveat for a quality clicker. It just seemed like maybe there were some folks not too confident about those plugs - I know so many people who have NO idea how to wrench. Hard to tell when new to a forum.

I think I have my noise narrowed down to an engine vibration on deceleration at certain speeds / rpm. I may change out the torque arm and see if it helps, maybe the engine is moving too much. It's definitely not the diff or transfer case.

I lke this ^^^

Have you had chance to watch it while goosing the gas a little?

Not yet, but I will take a look when I get a chance and look at the rubber bushing inside it. Torque arm is cheap, under $100.

I immediately went out and looked at mine. I'd say the big end bushing could be beat. Curious to know how you ruled out the differential. I mean a big gearbox should be one of the last things to go so it makes
me feel better. In considering every thing I could, tires and bushings have come to mind.

I ruled it out simply by it not making the noise all the time on decel, and only making the nose for a few seconds then disappearing. Worn pinion bearings usually howl all the time on decel and change pitch with speed.

Garrett, can you describe the actual steps to do the forced calibration? Apparently the system does some sort of regular calibration routine too. I tried doing the forced calibration using my iCarScan (which has the function..) and wasn't successful. Problem is - their description of how to do it is somewhat vague:


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...770cbb481e.jpg

That screen leads to this (the "No Support" message is really cryptic..):


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...c1bea6e887.jpg

Then we get:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...31ed664570.jpg

So apparently it didn't do the calibration. That's not a big surprise.. the iCarScan has various tests that require having the vehicle in some state like, engine running, or ignition-on - engine not running, or temperature must be reached for 120 seconds (oil level reading.) The problem I have it it's unclear what this condition has to be. It looks like it has to be with the vehicle going 2MPH or less, with the engine producing less than 100nm of torque. To do this rather obviously will require more than 1 person.

I also question if it's needed - the iCarScan can read out the data from the TC controller - and on mine it showed 820 successful calibrations, 10 unsuccessful calibrations. It appears it periodically does one all by itself.

More on shifting roughness in the next post. The Ravinol may not have been to blame (but out of caution, I'm still recommending the OE fluid..) I was able to reset the oil change indicator on the TC - once I remembered that it has to be done with the ignition on, engine off, then it tells you to turn the ignition off for 5 seconds, then it tells you to turn the ignition back on for 20 seconds.. It then reset the oil wear indicator.

OK - the continued part. Since I had the iCarScan hooked up (latest version of all their software - I'd recently reset the phone and reinstalled the OS - so iCarScan - EZDiag - had no vehicle files..) I decided to do the reset of adaptation values for the transmission.

I suspect part of the problem I experienced in California (and to a lesser amount on the trip back..) may have been due to the driving environment in the San Fernando Valley part of LA. It's continuous stop/go/squirt/crawl/stop/go.. I think it teaches the transmission bad things just due to the utter unpredictability of the driving environment. This is a case where my daughter-in-laws Nissan Leaf makes a lot more sense than a Cayenne Turbo.

So - I reset the transmission adaptations - and so far with limited testing (around the block a few times - I have a head cold and really shouldn't be out of bed..) - it feels very smooth again. Can't feel the shifts. What I was blaming on the transfer case may have been the transmission had learned bad habits, and was expecting the stop/go/squirt driving I did for 3 weeks in SFV/LA.

If you have issues - and have access to an iCarScan, I'd suggest doing this. Dunno if the Durametric performs this function or not, haven't bothered hooking it up.

Don any more updates ? How is transfer case ?

TC issue reported to NHTSA. Everyone join in!

It's gotten to the point of being hard to judge.. it generally seems smooth. I can feel some shifts - but no lurch or banging. So.. up in the air on it. If it's going to go bad, I just hope it does it before my 100k extended warranty runs out..

I will flush mine soon ... I have noise at slown turns ... If flush does not help ... I will rebuild with parts from AWD tech new chain and clutch.

I might be misunderstanding your question, but using a PIWIS when the transfer case oil service reset is performed, a Forced Calibration is part of the reset process. It guides one through the process: turn off ignition, turn on engine, and a bit later it is done and the parameters get reset. Separate of the oil service reset, a Forced Calibration can also be performed on its own.

My question was - the exact steps that have to be taken to do the forced calibration. I know there are several things like this (the transmission adaptations for instance) where the engine has to be on, then off, then back on for the reset to work. The iCarScan tells you some of these - but not all. There are no specific instructions on the transfer case calibration - so..

Turn off ignition
Turn on engine

At what point does the PIWIS tell transfer case controller that it wants a calibration? When do I press the button on the iCarScan that says "Perform Calibration" - which supposedly sends a signal to the transfer case controller to do the forced calibration? What was confusing were the conditions that iCarScan outlined.. (less than 3kph, less than 100Nm torque..) I believe you're doing it with the vehicle stationary?

TIA!

BTW - the point may be moot - since I car scan has reported over 800 calibrations - the vast majority "successful" - and the vehicle has 84,000 miles on it - so it looks as if the Xfer-case controller does calibrations every 100 miles or so anyway.

Newbie here. Can this fluid be a substitute for OEM fluid?

Not sure why it also says transmission fluid on the label

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...72a22b9860.png

No idea. Possibly - since it notes the 0.85 liter capacity. It might well BE the Porsche fluid. My question is - is it worth saving $10 to find out? Porsche fluid is now around $45..

A guy at Pelican parts told me this is basically a Porsche brand without a label. Part # is : 000-043-301-36-M1199 by the way. They actually didn't carry OEM at the time. So I was debating if I should get this or Ravenol

He may very well be correct.. they did have the OE oil when I was there last month and needed it - I picked it up. Guess some other people did too.

IT DID THE JOB!!!!

Mine is 2012 V6 with 72k miles and on the second transfer case.

Replaced it within 10 minutes. Super easy DIY thanks to people in here

Car drive very smooth now.

Is the "recommended" frequency sentiment to change the X-fer case fluid every 10K or 20K miles? Since mine is new and on my own dime, I want to be proactive. My engine oil OCI is at 5K intervals FYI.

I'm kinda curious too.

Got my Porsche 000-043-305-63 fluid from Ebay delivered on Sat so I'll be doing my second drain fill. I must say although the symptoms came back they seem more minor and don't appear to be progressing. Cost $47.88 shipped.

Also for those curious about fixing the TC I came across this - may be everyone has seen it but if not it shows you pretty much exactly what you're looking at and is pretty straight forward stuff. A chain, and a pack of clutch discs. If anyone speaks Russian feel free to translate :) Not sure how to or if I can embed so linky below...

I would think every 20K would be fine. The expense is just the oil, and the fill/drain plugs - so probably about $70. It can EASILY be done if you have air suspension in the off-road-terrain super high mode of the suspension, If you have steel suspension - then make up 4 ramps out of 2x10 lumber, 2 pieces of lumber for each one - and lift the car about 3.5" that way - you'll be able to squeeze under. If not - add another 2x10. If you're having it done by an independent - 15 minutes labor tops. It really takes about 5 minutes.

If it's going to become necessary to replace the TC fluid frequently it would be nice to figure out what the thread sealant being used is instead of having to purchase new drain plugs each time.

When I did mine I used a new drain plug but reused the better of the two existing as the fill plug since it really doesn't have any significant amount of fluid to stop. But being frugal I'd like to be able to just add the right sealant to the drain plug and reuse it as well. My guess would be that it's probably just one of the high-temp Permatex products or similar that's been pre-applied and allowed to cure.

I used Permatex high temp thread sealant and it works perfectly:

I mark the drain plug so it gets tightened back to the same spot. No issues.

I heard back from AWD.TECH (Lithuanian company mentioned before) about the procedure and gasket/seal for the housing, here's what I got back:

"Sorry for late reply, I was on sick leave.
You've asking about gasket between 2 halves of housing - it's not envisaged at all, these transfer cases are initially assembled with sealant.

Regarding documentation, unfortunately it doesn't exists or at least it's not available outside manufacturer's factory. So rebuild procedure consists in disassembly, inspection (special attention should be paid to parts #30, #32, #33, #34), replacing of worn out parts if they are and assembling in reverse order. According to our experience all these transfer cases have common issue - worn of clutch so its replacement (parts #18, #19, #20, #21) expected regardless to inspection of other parts. Replacement of chain is not obligatory but is strongly recommended.

https://awd.tech/pages/pl72atc-diagram

Also I need to advise you, that after rebuild you need to update the software (exactly update not a simple reset of adaptations) of the transfer box ECU (or rebuild may not be successful), it's better to find out ahead of time if your local Porsche center is offering such service.

Kind regards,
Andrew"

That, with the video shared before seems pretty straightforward.

I will have to say that I don't know how much help I'll be going forward, and won't be doing the rebuild and a write-up of it as mentioned as my Cayenne is now gone.

Thanks Don. I have air suspension so will do it myself. I think I will change at 10K and look at the oil on my new case then after thinking about it. Cheap insurance IMO.

projekt-h,

Great info. If you look at the case rebuild video I see no bolts that need any specific torque - it appears the clutch pack is held in place with a C clip on the output shaft. The bolts holding the case together could be torqued to whatever that size bolt normally is torqued to (there are tables to look this info up) or a bit less - allowing the sealant to mush and seal. If it was me - I'd use a Permatex product or Yamabond (from my motorcycle background..) there are also Loctite products made to "make a gasket". Interesting that they've found the clutch to be the failure point - it's what I've suspected all along given the symptoms and the fact that a change of oil changes it's behavior.

I also likely won't be doing the rebuild (I've got another 15,000 miles of an extended warranty) - but if someone does - it would be great to document it. It looks like about $300/400 worth of parts would do it and maybe an hour labor on the box once it was removed. If someone did this - it would be a good time to add the vent kit that Porsche made up to move the vent up into the engine compartment.

FYI I had my "old" case apart in order to weld the crack at the drain plug. The 2 dust seals around the output shafts took some time to get off without damaging the surrounding area. You will need the two dust seals and the wire reinforced seals (05 & 50) around the shafts plus new cir-clips at re-assembly. We replaced all with new. The case itself is straightforward. You will need two case "expander" tools to split them apart with all of the sealant utilized at assembly. There are two bosses to put the expander tools into then wrench (expand) them apart. I took many pictures of the disassembled gearbox. Going back together we utilized high temp sealant made for differentials -- no leaks.

My chain seemed very tight with little discernible stretch. We came to this conclusion because in order to get the assembly out and back in we had to be almost perfectly aligned and parallel on the shafts. No real give or play was noticed.

As a reminder, my case failed for different reasons other than what this thread is about. Now with a new case, and the under body/frame area repaired, and a new cross-member, coupled with proactive Porsche fluid changes, I expect the case to outlive my ownership of the PiG.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...f60c2d76e6.jpg

I wonder if the case can't be split on the car and leaving behind the section without chains and such? You think?

And guys I'd reuse those plugs forever. Just use some good RTV or other sealant that isn't locktite red.

I don't think so after participating in the tear down at my local Indie shop. The assembly is "captured" between the two output shafts with cir-clips. You need unfettered access to both sides even to split the cases IMO. Both shaft dust seals, wire enforced shaft seals, and cir-clips have to be removed from both sides of the case.

So I did another fluid change on my transfer case after 100 miles of driving just to flush the old stuff out

Since I just purchased the vehicle (2012 V6 with 72k miles). The car had a slippage acceleration when we bought it. Did the TC oil right after and it's gone, and I did another change 100 miles after that.

This is what the TC fluid look like after 100 miles

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...bf5b51d4f1.jpg



And this is fresh TC oil.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...67b20d5736.jpg

Hi Guys

What is the verdict on fluid ? Is ravenol still way to go?

Thx

PLEASE share the photos..

Maybe - but at this point - I'd only use genuine Porsche (or perhaps the Shell oil discussed earlier - which appears to be where Porsche gets their oil from.) The Ravenol bottle is killer for filling it though.. so it's worth saving the bottle (I did..)

And - there is about $10 difference between Ravenol and the Porsche fluid (Porsche dropped the price).. so why Ravenol?

Pics
 

Here are some pics of X-fer case apart.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...8149179345.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...d1fdc5dba8.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...d0e6187787.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...24fedd5ef5.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...8ca4744a23.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...fd5ad6d435.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...0ddf51775b.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...d06bce464e.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...a7133c527e.jpg