Doug_B_928

I'm looking at a 2013 diesel. MSRP was 70,965 CDN. In service was September 12, 2012. It has 72,000 Kms and is relatively poorly optioned. The additional equipment list includes:

1D6 Trailer hitch
1N3 Power steering plus
3FE Moonroof
3SN No Roof Rails
4L6 Auto Dimming Interior Rearview Mirror
7B6 12-Volt Outlet in Rear Center Consoles
7X2 ParkAssist Front and Rear
9JB Smoker Package
9MB Dimmable Interior LED Lighting
EXT TPMS
H9K Summer Performance Tires for 18" Wheels (these are not on the car)
MA Standard Interior Black
N4 Dark Blue Metallic
PA1 AutoDimOut/InsideRearViewMirr
PIP Porsche Intelligent Performance
PP5 Light Comfort Package

So, from what I can tell, no navigation, no heated seating, no heated steering wheel, no headlight cleaners, no reversing camera, no CD changer. If any of the aforementioned missing are standard equipment, please let me know.

What is 'Porsche Intelligent Performance'? I did a search and don't see anything explaining this.

The car is said to be 1 owner with a clean carfax and is being sold by a car flipper. The previous owner bought two new Porsches but, rather than trading it in, sold it to the current seller about two months ago. He shipped it and is flipping it (He isn't a dealer but sells the maximum allowable cars without being a dealer--5 per year). It seems odd that the stealership wouldn't give the original owner a good trade value given their purchase of two new cars, which also makes me suspect that perhaps there are hidden issues with this car. It also comes from an area of the country that is known for using a lot of salt in the winter. There is some wear on the interior but the exterior looks pretty good (a couple of small scratches and a few stone chips). Apparently some ice fell on the front somewhere and that was repaired. This suggests it probably has sat outside its whole life. The car hasn't been babied by an enthusiast, but doesn't look to have been abused either.

I'm aware of all of the information about the Diesel scandal and the likelihood of extended warranty (it's almost out of warranty by virtue of mileage, but I assume this will be extended an additional 2 years to September 12, 2019), as well as the certainty of some combination of lower performance/fuel consumption/add blue usage.

I'm not sure we can live in this climate without heated seats and steering wheel. Most people put on average 15,000 Kms/year, so this car is considered by most to be high mileage. However, given all of the above information, if we were to take a chance on it and make make an offer what do you think would be a good deal price for us?

Doug_B_928

Does the scandal mean that no one knows the current value of these cars?

gnat

It's easier to pontificate on the price if you give us what is being asked for it.

If it is missing things that you think are important (heated seats/wheel), then move on to another. There are aftermarket options to give you heated seats, but retrofitting a heated steering wheel will be a costly pain in the ***.

Figure close to $2k USD for the steering wheel/column parts, but then you'll likely have to run extra wiring and also need to get it reprogrammed. I've seen the subject discussed off and on, but I've never seen a report of it being done with actual details, processes, and costs.

Doug_B_928

I meant to include the asking ($55,900). So, it's a 3.5 year-old car with more than 4 years of wear (by most people's standards) and he is asking 79% of its MSRP.

gnat

Note: This is all based on the US market. I have no idea what Canada is doing in relation to these observations.

Historically that percentage seems about right for any diesel.

Going by US standards, some areas are seeing prices fall due to the scandal, others have held steady, and a few have bumped up a smidge. I'd say the overall average is probably in the 8% range right now.

So based on everything you've said, I think the lack of some options (HID lights, 14-way seats, heated seats, PCM) says that he's a bit over priced. Coupled with the scandal I think this could be had for $50k if the seller is reasonable and accepts/understands these things, but not motivated to sell quickly. If they are motivated and you are good at negotiating I'd think $48k would be a reasonable number to land on.

Doug_B_928

Thanks gnat.

Doug_B_928

Went out for New Year's dinner last night and sat with a SA for Range Rover. He had just been talking with a mechanic who told him that diesels need to be driven.... "or else." The mechanic's opinion is that it's particularly bad on diesel engines to be driven a short distance to work and back each day (i.e., worse than it is to do so on a performance gasoline engine). Something about "gumming up" the internals with carbon. Does this resonate with the brain trust here?

Rob VN

You might check that there is no oil leak at the rear of the engine. There were issues with the timing cover (at rear of engine) leaking.

Doug_B_928

Actually, funny you should mention that. After a sedate test drive both myself and the seller could smell some burning oil from the engine compartment. Given it's under warranty and I'd get a PPI I wasn't too worried about it. But the confusion over whether warranty will be extended gives me pause. Now I'm also unclear about the utility of the diesel for my wife as a vehicle to drive to work and around town.

skiahh

Sort of. You do want the engine to warm to operating temperature. Doesn't take much for these engines, so unless the short distance you're taking about is 3 or 4 miles, you're probably OK. Or if it's really cold so that it keeps the temps low for extended periods.

It won't kill it, though, if you don't always warm it up fully. If you take it out and really romp on it every so often, that'll burn out any gunk you may have built up. Or otherwise put it under load so it's really working, like towing at max weight. Up some good hills.

gnat

Double post

gnat

Really the only downside to a diesel for short commutes is that you won't get the good MPG that you do with long cruising. Still better MPG than the Base or S though

Even in the warm months (90s) mine is at proper coolant temp in ~2 miles. The oil, however, takes just shy of 10 miles. Now that it's getting cold the oil is taking about 10-12 miles to get to temp. The oil temp is the most critical of the two.

My commute is only 10 miles...

You don't have to romp on it (though why get a Porsche otherwise ) but a good long cruise will do the trick too. In fact you want to get a good long run from time to time so that the DEF regeneration can kick in and clean the filter out.

No matter what, always make sure the oil is up to operating temp before really getting on it.

stronbl

^^^ This. DEF regeneration needs distance as gnat notes. Biodiesel versus low sulfur highway diesel could also add to concerns on short trips. But the modern diesels are really pretty robust engines.

ddeliber

Diesels take a long time to warm up. Bigger everything in the power plant. I suspect the reason that the coolant gets up to temp quickly (well that is if the temperature reading is accurate) is because there is probably an additional heating mechanism in there so that the heater blows warm air quicker.

I say probably because I am not a Cayenne expert but I have a small (by comparison) 335d and it has one. It also takes 10 - 12 minutes to get to optimal temp but I get toasty air in a minute or two. Fuel economy and power are noticeably improved once it gets up there as well.

+1 on the don't get on it til its warmed up.

skiahh

It's the oil temp you want at operating temperature, not the water, so my comment stands about 2-3 miles vs longer.

As for romping on it vs a long haul, I disagree. You need to work a diesel engine and a long lope at highway speed doesn't work these engines at all. You don't have to work it hard all the time, but they do need to be pushed hard from time to time. In my pickup, I make it a point to run through the gears, taking the RPMs up to near redline when getting on the highway or when it seems like there is a need to "blow it out" (with oil warmed up, of course). Towing and accelerating briskly or running up a hill with significant weight will force the engine to work hard, too.

Loping these things along (whether the 3.0l V6 or my 5.9l I6) at 70 mph and ~2000 RPMs doesn't even get these engines winded! That's why we buy them, after all, isn't it? The DEF regeneration cycle, though, is a good point, so romping on it and a good long cruise sounds like a good solution.

(For reference, I've been driving - and learning about diesel engine quirks - since 97-98, when I decided to get my first diesel pickup. Since then, I've had 2 Cummins Rams, and E320 Bluetec and now the CD. I'm not an expert, but do have some knowledge and experience with them.)