Can someone please explain the low depreciation on the Diesel?
06-12-2015 | 01:16 AM
#16
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,913
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Not arguing anything you said, but I would expect the systems in a semi to be far more robust than a passenger car. If a semi couldn't do 200k standing on its head you guys would tear the MFG a new one, most (stupid) people consider 100k in a car a lot and expect costly failures at that point.
My point is that I could easily see the systems in the semis holding up much longer and better than our cars will. Only time will tell (and I bought one so I'm betting on the up keep not being significantly worse than the pre-DPF motors.
My point is that I could easily see the systems in the semis holding up much longer and better than our cars will. Only time will tell (and I bought one so I'm betting on the up keep not being significantly worse than the pre-DPF motors.
06-12-2015 | 02:32 AM
#17
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,175
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From: Fruita, CO
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dies...iculate_filter
VW, Benz, and BMW all use a urea based DPF system (others may too, I'm just familiar with the Germans) which is injected into the exhaust to capture the particulates. In non-DPF cars you'll see the tell tale black soot all over the rear end and smell the burned diesel when you are behind them, but these new DPF motors do not exhibit those issues.
I've read that it reduces the power and fuel economy, but I don't know how accurate that is.
In the Cayenne the DPF tank is in the rear under the spare tire. Dealers will refill it during your OCIs, but since I don't go to the dealer for service I did it myself when the system told me it was running low. If I remember correctly it gives you an 800 mile warning which is plenty of time to get it refilled. If you let it go dry, it will not restart after you shut the engine off. I think I was around 12,500 when I refilled it and it was reporting about 100 miles left. I refilled it with a generic brand so 5 gallons only cost about $30.
You'll see it listed as a negative by diesel detractors, but it's really a non-issue. The big question is what happens when they start breaking and how long before that starts happening.
VW, Benz, and BMW all use a urea based DPF system (others may too, I'm just familiar with the Germans) which is injected into the exhaust to capture the particulates. In non-DPF cars you'll see the tell tale black soot all over the rear end and smell the burned diesel when you are behind them, but these new DPF motors do not exhibit those issues.
I've read that it reduces the power and fuel economy, but I don't know how accurate that is.
In the Cayenne the DPF tank is in the rear under the spare tire. Dealers will refill it during your OCIs, but since I don't go to the dealer for service I did it myself when the system told me it was running low. If I remember correctly it gives you an 800 mile warning which is plenty of time to get it refilled. If you let it go dry, it will not restart after you shut the engine off. I think I was around 12,500 when I refilled it and it was reporting about 100 miles left. I refilled it with a generic brand so 5 gallons only cost about $30.
You'll see it listed as a negative by diesel detractors, but it's really a non-issue. The big question is what happens when they start breaking and how long before that starts happening.
But, not all non-urea diesels have all the soot or the diesel smell. My '03 Ram with a 5.9l Cummins isn't sooty, though it does have the strong diesel smell when running. Compared to a Hemi engined Ram, it's worth $5000 more right now, though I wouldn't sell it.
My wife's '09 E320 Bluetec (which we traded for the CD) had no soot, no smell and no urea! It's value, according to KBB seems to be on par with the E350, so no diesel premium there.
We haven't road tripped the Cayenne yet, but have seen mileage well into the 30s on the highway. Around town, it's mid-20s consistently. I expect this car to last a looooong time!
As for new vs used, if there is not much difference between the two and is within your budget, buy new. You'll get exactly what you want and know exactly how it's been driven and maintained.
06-12-2015 | 07:35 AM
#18
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Joined: Jul 2009
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IMO, beside what has been said above, one of the reason why Diesel keep better resale is the following :
Diesel offer better MPG, (cost less on usage). A potential buyer of a used car is by nature of fact someone that try to save on purchase cost (going for a used car instead of a new one), so, such behavior (I fully respect it) "matches" very well ..looking for a Diesel. (I.e.: increasing the demand, and having better resale value.)
Prius market shows "that" quite well, ..beside the fact that a Prius uses such limited amount of gas (enabling Prius owners to do mileage for "nothing"), ..so, that many used Prius on market have very heavy counts on the odometer !
..Or in the opposite : wait to have the gas back at high prices, and see the used price of the heavy car with big V8 dropping !
Diesel offer better MPG, (cost less on usage). A potential buyer of a used car is by nature of fact someone that try to save on purchase cost (going for a used car instead of a new one), so, such behavior (I fully respect it) "matches" very well ..looking for a Diesel. (I.e.: increasing the demand, and having better resale value.)
Prius market shows "that" quite well, ..beside the fact that a Prius uses such limited amount of gas (enabling Prius owners to do mileage for "nothing"), ..so, that many used Prius on market have very heavy counts on the odometer !
..Or in the opposite : wait to have the gas back at high prices, and see the used price of the heavy car with big V8 dropping !
06-12-2015 | 08:10 AM
#19
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 46
Likes: 5
Definitely is not a new fad. I have owned diesel cars/suvs for the last 10 years and they have all held their value much better than their gas versions. I am always amazed how well diesels hold there value.
In the US, diesel fuel may be more expensive in the winter time, but the rest of the year it is very close in price to regular gasoline and cheaper than premium gas that all the high end cars use. If you own cars, like my family does and drive 20,000+ miles a year, then diesel is a no brainer decision. Porsche makes it tougher, as they require those 5,000 miles oil changes in the US.
I would still take the diesel, as the torque, mpg and towing capabilities are great!
In the US, diesel fuel may be more expensive in the winter time, but the rest of the year it is very close in price to regular gasoline and cheaper than premium gas that all the high end cars use. If you own cars, like my family does and drive 20,000+ miles a year, then diesel is a no brainer decision. Porsche makes it tougher, as they require those 5,000 miles oil changes in the US.
I would still take the diesel, as the torque, mpg and towing capabilities are great!
Diesel motors and gas motors have almost exactly the same number of moving parts, and nearly identical basic design. To claim todays EPA compliant diesels are uncomplicated is simply not true. They have become much more complex and because of strict emissions are now no better for reliability or durability.
The advantages of the diesel are fuel economy low end torque. The pitfall is that fuel is more expensive and, if you drive it like a Porsche, the savings due to economy disappear.
Why are they holding value? Because it is a new fad, just like buying a Prius was, or riding a Harley. None of those is the best at its purpose, unless the purpose is to make a statement.
The advantages of the diesel are fuel economy low end torque. The pitfall is that fuel is more expensive and, if you drive it like a Porsche, the savings due to economy disappear.
Why are they holding value? Because it is a new fad, just like buying a Prius was, or riding a Harley. None of those is the best at its purpose, unless the purpose is to make a statement.
06-17-2015 | 07:06 PM
#20
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: CT
Can someone please explain the low depreciation on the Diesel?
Originally Posted by skiahh
My wife's '09 E320 Bluetec (which we traded for the CD) had no soot, no smell and no urea! It's value, according to KBB seems to be on par with the E350, so no diesel premium there.
06-17-2015 | 10:54 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 430
Likes: 3
Diesel
Never owned a diesel before.
I now have the 2010 Touareg TDI from new with 170,000 km on it today.
Towed a 20 foot trailer from Ontario to Alberta. Forgot a few times it was behind me, whoops and got going too fast.
Tons of torque available at 1800 rpm. 400 ft lbs
Engine is very complicated with :
Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System
Fuel Cooling System
Variable Vane Turbocharger
Diesel Particle Filter
DEF Exhaust Treatment System
Likes :
700 - +1000 km per tank full of diesel.
16,000-20,000 km per full DEF tank.
When you put the peddle to the floor at a light it is surprisingly quick off the line.
Go any where in any weather vehicle.
Quite smooth, luxurious and roomie for four.
Dislikes:
Reliability of the emissions systems/exhaust treatment. Had too many problems from 50,000 km to 100,000 with more than average repair bills. Therefore would recommended a extended warranty that covers all emissions items. They are pricy to replace.
Although I have gone these last 70,000 km without a emission component failure.
After 5 years of ownership would I buy another TDI, Yes and it will be A CPO vehicle with the 160,000 km warranty.
I would upgrade today to the CD but I still can't order vinyl seats. I like the fact I can wash the seats with a wet cloth after the dogs drag tons of mud in the T.
I hope when vinyl seats are I finally added to the Cayenne configurator I get a higher than average trade value on the Touareg. If not I will just drive another +170,000 km.
Cheers
I now have the 2010 Touareg TDI from new with 170,000 km on it today.
Towed a 20 foot trailer from Ontario to Alberta. Forgot a few times it was behind me, whoops and got going too fast.
Tons of torque available at 1800 rpm. 400 ft lbs
Engine is very complicated with :
Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) System
Fuel Cooling System
Variable Vane Turbocharger
Diesel Particle Filter
DEF Exhaust Treatment System
Likes :
700 - +1000 km per tank full of diesel.
16,000-20,000 km per full DEF tank.
When you put the peddle to the floor at a light it is surprisingly quick off the line.
Go any where in any weather vehicle.
Quite smooth, luxurious and roomie for four.
Dislikes:
Reliability of the emissions systems/exhaust treatment. Had too many problems from 50,000 km to 100,000 with more than average repair bills. Therefore would recommended a extended warranty that covers all emissions items. They are pricy to replace.
Although I have gone these last 70,000 km without a emission component failure.
After 5 years of ownership would I buy another TDI, Yes and it will be A CPO vehicle with the 160,000 km warranty.
I would upgrade today to the CD but I still can't order vinyl seats. I like the fact I can wash the seats with a wet cloth after the dogs drag tons of mud in the T.
I hope when vinyl seats are I finally added to the Cayenne configurator I get a higher than average trade value on the Touareg. If not I will just drive another +170,000 km.
Cheers