Uprated Turbos for 06' Turbo s ?
03-11-2013, 05:07 AM
#16
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Maybe this is a Little Bit easier for you us Guys:
Go to leistungmotorsports.COM Website and then to 955 Turbo Section.
They offer the whole package. I have bought the cai and secondary Cat replacement pipes from them .
I have just Seen that they now offer also the primary Cat replacement pipes.
Concerning the diverter valves :
Just go to eBay.COM and Search for 996 diverter valve. There are several vendors offering them ( evoms, ...).
Originally for the 996 Turbo they also fit the Cayenne Turbo and work Fine.
One Side Note to the primary Cat replacement pipes:
The Engine check light will come on As the primary cats are Monitored by the Main brain. The secondary cats Not.
Your Tuner will have to delete this during Mapping As Porsche Service is Not able to delete this fault permanentelly.
Cheers
Stefan
Go to leistungmotorsports.COM Website and then to 955 Turbo Section.
They offer the whole package. I have bought the cai and secondary Cat replacement pipes from them .
I have just Seen that they now offer also the primary Cat replacement pipes.
Concerning the diverter valves :
Just go to eBay.COM and Search for 996 diverter valve. There are several vendors offering them ( evoms, ...).
Originally for the 996 Turbo they also fit the Cayenne Turbo and work Fine.
One Side Note to the primary Cat replacement pipes:
The Engine check light will come on As the primary cats are Monitored by the Main brain. The secondary cats Not.
Your Tuner will have to delete this during Mapping As Porsche Service is Not able to delete this fault permanentelly.
Cheers
Stefan
03-11-2013, 09:15 AM
#17
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I had a discussion with a Porsche tech several years ago about getting more air through my '06 turbo S. Point being that air IS power... whether in the form of greater displacement or greater boost.
The tech I spoke to pointed out that on my turbo S the limiting factor is the capacity of the DOWNPIPE (exhaust exit pipe after the turbos). He pointed out that the downpipes are such a tight and custom shaped fit for the tight space that they have in the Cayenne that it is not really feasible to increase the size of the downpipe as Porsche has already maximized it for the tight space that it occupies.
To the point, increasing the size of the turbos will be rather pointless IF you do not increase the size of the downpipe after the turbos and doing that is next to impossible due to the tight space they have to occupy in the Cayenne... but if you figure out how to increase the size of the downpipe please tell us how you do it.
The tech I spoke to pointed out that on my turbo S the limiting factor is the capacity of the DOWNPIPE (exhaust exit pipe after the turbos). He pointed out that the downpipes are such a tight and custom shaped fit for the tight space that they have in the Cayenne that it is not really feasible to increase the size of the downpipe as Porsche has already maximized it for the tight space that it occupies.
To the point, increasing the size of the turbos will be rather pointless IF you do not increase the size of the downpipe after the turbos and doing that is next to impossible due to the tight space they have to occupy in the Cayenne... but if you figure out how to increase the size of the downpipe please tell us how you do it.
Exactly my Experience !
Replace them with downpipes from "Friedrich sportauspuff" 721eur in stainless , pita to install and to find 100 Cell Metal cats for this tight Space but Turbos spool up very fast abd gain is recognizeable !
Forget secondary Cat delete and catback - just pointless.
I also have Uprated BOVs from precision motorsports, good improvement against those Leaking OEM valves and nice wosh :-).
Regards
Stefan
Replace them with downpipes from "Friedrich sportauspuff" 721eur in stainless , pita to install and to find 100 Cell Metal cats for this tight Space but Turbos spool up very fast abd gain is recognizeable !
Forget secondary Cat delete and catback - just pointless.
I also have Uprated BOVs from precision motorsports, good improvement against those Leaking OEM valves and nice wosh :-).
Regards
Stefan
03-11-2013, 10:12 AM
#19
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I've already long since done a billy boat catback exhaust. Sounds good. Didn't really notice any real performance increase.
How important at this point, if I were to do the downpipe upgrades, is going to impoved induction, KN filters? I've avoided them to now because I was still under CPO. About to go out of warranty. Do mostly city driving, so not worried much about sucking up dust.
03-11-2013, 10:13 AM
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03-11-2013, 11:06 AM
#21
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+1 link, e36bmer !
@Peter: Can you check the part no. of your turbos to see if those offered by Scroll Products are the same as in the Cayenne Turbo S ?
Meanwhile I have requested a quote from Evoms for their Evo/Garret GT 700hybrid turbos, I'll let all of you know, when they have come up with a price.
Will also get in touch with Scroll products to get more info on performance figures, aso. .
...So we have already two vendors which are able to supply uprated turbos , very good !
@icspres: All the exhaust gases go from the header through the turbo to drive the compressor wheel, leaving the turbo in exhaust direction through (1) pipe with primary cat, then (2) pipe with secondary cat, then (3) straight pipe , then reaching the (4) rear muffler .
Cheers
Stefan
@Peter: Can you check the part no. of your turbos to see if those offered by Scroll Products are the same as in the Cayenne Turbo S ?
Meanwhile I have requested a quote from Evoms for their Evo/Garret GT 700hybrid turbos, I'll let all of you know, when they have come up with a price.
Will also get in touch with Scroll products to get more info on performance figures, aso. .
...So we have already two vendors which are able to supply uprated turbos , very good !
@icspres: All the exhaust gases go from the header through the turbo to drive the compressor wheel, leaving the turbo in exhaust direction through (1) pipe with primary cat, then (2) pipe with secondary cat, then (3) straight pipe , then reaching the (4) rear muffler .
Cheers
Stefan
03-11-2013, 11:47 AM
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Next vendor:
Turbo Dynamics in UK:
http://www.hybridturbos.com/hybrid-t...turbochargers/
Price : 2100 GBP per side.
The more I search the more I get the impression that Porsche did not change the turbos from the 450 HP model over the 500 HP model to the Turbos S with 521 HP.
Anybody out there who is able to confirm that the turbos always remained the same spec ?
Next question that came into my mind: Is there a need for larger injectors to take full advantage of these uprated turbos or do OEM injectors and fuel pump / pressure regulator the job ?
What do you guys think ?
Regards
Stefan
Turbo Dynamics in UK:
http://www.hybridturbos.com/hybrid-t...turbochargers/
Price : 2100 GBP per side.
The more I search the more I get the impression that Porsche did not change the turbos from the 450 HP model over the 500 HP model to the Turbos S with 521 HP.
Anybody out there who is able to confirm that the turbos always remained the same spec ?
Next question that came into my mind: Is there a need for larger injectors to take full advantage of these uprated turbos or do OEM injectors and fuel pump / pressure regulator the job ?
What do you guys think ?
Regards
Stefan
Last edited by srupp1969; 03-11-2013 at 12:15 PM.
03-11-2013, 12:51 PM
#23
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@icspres: All the exhaust gases go from the header through the turbo to drive the compressor wheel, leaving the turbo in exhaust direction through (1) pipe with primary cat, then (2) pipe with secondary cat, then (3) straight pipe , then reaching the (4) rear muffler .
Cheers
Stefan
03-11-2013, 05:59 PM
#24
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icspres,
first, the trick to increased flow is to delete the primary cats by using a downpipe without them. If you look under your car you will see that the primary cats are directly situated right after the turbos. They are the biggest bottleneck. Aftermarket primary cats are not foreseen - would be totally senseless.
You need a remap after installing the downpipe to erase the check light warning.
I first also replaced my secondary cats with the leistung motosports straight through pipes. The gasoline smell was so awefull that I welded the 100 cell cats in. Result: gasoline smell gone.
Noise level with the OEM rear muffler and my setup:
- very decent rumble throughout the whole rev range, the diverter valves are louder ;-)
first, the trick to increased flow is to delete the primary cats by using a downpipe without them. If you look under your car you will see that the primary cats are directly situated right after the turbos. They are the biggest bottleneck. Aftermarket primary cats are not foreseen - would be totally senseless.
You need a remap after installing the downpipe to erase the check light warning.
I first also replaced my secondary cats with the leistung motosports straight through pipes. The gasoline smell was so awefull that I welded the 100 cell cats in. Result: gasoline smell gone.
Noise level with the OEM rear muffler and my setup:
- very decent rumble throughout the whole rev range, the diverter valves are louder ;-)
03-11-2013, 06:45 PM
#25
AFAIK, a regular turbo p!g has TDO4H turbochargers.
e36bmer - wow, thanks for the link!
as for the turbo dynamics kit - ouch, the price is crazy.
srupp - I'm driving my p!g to the chiptuner tomorrow, will definitely take a look. when we finish w/ our mods, we gotta meet in Munich or wherever to test our p!gs in action. I'll just need a summer tire setup that's capable of more than 210kmh as I've got ATs on right now ;-)
e36bmer - wow, thanks for the link!
as for the turbo dynamics kit - ouch, the price is crazy.
srupp - I'm driving my p!g to the chiptuner tomorrow, will definitely take a look. when we finish w/ our mods, we gotta meet in Munich or wherever to test our p!gs in action. I'll just need a summer tire setup that's capable of more than 210kmh as I've got ATs on right now ;-)
03-12-2013, 12:07 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
icspres,
first, the trick to increased flow is to delete the primary cats by using a downpipe without them. If you look under your car you will see that the primary cats are directly situated right after the turbos. They are the biggest bottleneck. Aftermarket primary cats are not foreseen - would be totally senseless.
You need a remap after installing the downpipe to erase the check light warning.
I first also replaced my secondary cats with the leistung motosports straight through pipes. The gasoline smell was so awefull that I welded the 100 cell cats in. Result: gasoline smell gone.
Noise level with the OEM rear muffler and my setup:
- very decent rumble throughout the whole rev range, the diverter valves are louder ;-)
first, the trick to increased flow is to delete the primary cats by using a downpipe without them. If you look under your car you will see that the primary cats are directly situated right after the turbos. They are the biggest bottleneck. Aftermarket primary cats are not foreseen - would be totally senseless.
You need a remap after installing the downpipe to erase the check light warning.
I first also replaced my secondary cats with the leistung motosports straight through pipes. The gasoline smell was so awefull that I welded the 100 cell cats in. Result: gasoline smell gone.
Noise level with the OEM rear muffler and my setup:
- very decent rumble throughout the whole rev range, the diverter valves are louder ;-)
03-13-2013, 08:49 AM
#28
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Sean of Scrollproducts came back today will following interesting and detailed info:
"Stefan,
If you were to ship both units to our workshop in Warsaw PL we can process both in approximately 3 days or less. If you confirm the shipment and provide the tracking we will prepare ahead of time by ordering components and scheduling technician work load to insure a faster build.
We do not offer fixed cost pricing for turbocharger rebuilding until the turbochargers have been inspected. There are a few issues that come up with the VF43 turbos and one issue is common on every set we process, turbine shaft piston ring "seat" wear. The piston ring locks the turbine shaft into the cartridge, the turbine piston ring seat is 1.2mm in width and typically the seat is worn past the service limit of 1.22mm and needs to be professionally tig welded and machined back to the 1.2mm width to correct the problem. This process adds 6 hours of labor to the final cost 3 hours per turbine. If you are using a performance tuning ECU or the vehicle is past 70,000 miles I can guarantee the turbine piston ring seat(s) are worn past the service limit.
Performance- The standard compressor wheel on the VF43 comes with a 56mm wheel compared to the 60mm RHF55 wheel. Overall the RHF55 will support 270HP per turbo totaling 540HP overall, this can be exceeded to 300hp but the piston ring seat(s) will be overwhelmed do to shaft overspeed. All of the data provided is based on efficiency not overall MAX output. The goal you have of 700HP is not tangible with these turbochargers. My suggestion would be to turn back your horsepower goals as the 4.5i is known to have a weak crankshaft made from cast material and considered a failure point on that engine. Extreme output will cause premature failure.
http://www.ihi-turbo.com/turbo_RHE-RHF.htm
Porsche 4.5i VF43 / RHF55 Upgrade Set- $1500.00
Possible variable- Turbine seat work 3hours per turbine (6hours@95.00)= $570.00
Shipping $110.00 EMS Priority 3-5days.
UPS or TNT Service is available at additional cost.
Unfortunately the VF43 turbine wheels are not available for resale as IHI does not stock any components for this turbocharger, very frustrating!
Thank you,
Sean Kinch
Scroll Products / TriState Turbo
80 Greenwood Avenue
Midland Park, NJ 07432
888-292-7001
www.scrollproducts.com
www.tristateturbo.com
Turbo Dynamics informed me that they do not support the turbo upgrade for the Cayenne any longer.
I am still waiting for feedback of Evoms.
@Peter: How was your trip to the Tuner/Dyno yesterday ?
Cheers
Stefan
"Stefan,
If you were to ship both units to our workshop in Warsaw PL we can process both in approximately 3 days or less. If you confirm the shipment and provide the tracking we will prepare ahead of time by ordering components and scheduling technician work load to insure a faster build.
We do not offer fixed cost pricing for turbocharger rebuilding until the turbochargers have been inspected. There are a few issues that come up with the VF43 turbos and one issue is common on every set we process, turbine shaft piston ring "seat" wear. The piston ring locks the turbine shaft into the cartridge, the turbine piston ring seat is 1.2mm in width and typically the seat is worn past the service limit of 1.22mm and needs to be professionally tig welded and machined back to the 1.2mm width to correct the problem. This process adds 6 hours of labor to the final cost 3 hours per turbine. If you are using a performance tuning ECU or the vehicle is past 70,000 miles I can guarantee the turbine piston ring seat(s) are worn past the service limit.
Performance- The standard compressor wheel on the VF43 comes with a 56mm wheel compared to the 60mm RHF55 wheel. Overall the RHF55 will support 270HP per turbo totaling 540HP overall, this can be exceeded to 300hp but the piston ring seat(s) will be overwhelmed do to shaft overspeed. All of the data provided is based on efficiency not overall MAX output. The goal you have of 700HP is not tangible with these turbochargers. My suggestion would be to turn back your horsepower goals as the 4.5i is known to have a weak crankshaft made from cast material and considered a failure point on that engine. Extreme output will cause premature failure.
http://www.ihi-turbo.com/turbo_RHE-RHF.htm
Porsche 4.5i VF43 / RHF55 Upgrade Set- $1500.00
Possible variable- Turbine seat work 3hours per turbine (6hours@95.00)= $570.00
Shipping $110.00 EMS Priority 3-5days.
UPS or TNT Service is available at additional cost.
Unfortunately the VF43 turbine wheels are not available for resale as IHI does not stock any components for this turbocharger, very frustrating!
Thank you,
Sean Kinch
Scroll Products / TriState Turbo
80 Greenwood Avenue
Midland Park, NJ 07432
888-292-7001
www.scrollproducts.com
www.tristateturbo.com
Turbo Dynamics informed me that they do not support the turbo upgrade for the Cayenne any longer.
I am still waiting for feedback of Evoms.
@Peter: How was your trip to the Tuner/Dyno yesterday ?
Cheers
Stefan
03-14-2013, 11:11 AM
#29
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That's some good info, and really not too bad on price. I'm just afraid it's more of a pain to take those turbos off and have my car not run for a couple weeks than it's worth to me.
It looks like I'm going to need another daily driver, so that I can have something to drive while my current daily driver (cayenne) is down for upgrades.
It looks like I'm going to need another daily driver, so that I can have something to drive while my current daily driver (cayenne) is down for upgrades.
03-14-2013, 12:02 PM
#30
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I think that changing the turbos is a major job and with the upgrade will put the car of the street for minimum 2-3 weeks.
The Cayenne is my "winter" car so I am changing horses beginning of april.
Therefore plenty of time for me to perform the upgrade as car is not needed necessarelly till october :-).
It is really a pitty that Turbo Dynamics is not performing the upgrade any longer :-(.
Would be interesting why.
The Cayenne is my "winter" car so I am changing horses beginning of april.
Therefore plenty of time for me to perform the upgrade as car is not needed necessarelly till october :-).
It is really a pitty that Turbo Dynamics is not performing the upgrade any longer :-(.
Would be interesting why.