Joseph O'Reilly

thanks for the detailed review speed21. your review really makes me wonder if i should bother with pasm on the diesel S. is it just a gimmick? the standard suspension is good, and since pdcc isn't available on a diesel S, i wouldn't necessarily bother with air suspension. without pasm and A/S, one also removes two sources of potential repair issues in later years (especially the A/S). what to do? to complicate further, the pasm in the diesel S apparently, according to C&D, has more advanced programming like the PASM on the GTS, which they say really expands the range of the three settings...that's why PASM is still checked in my option list.

speed21

Yes I read that in the reviews and I'd also keep that PASM box ticked for the S Diesel car. The improvements in the PASM settings passed over from the GTS would certainly make it a worthwhile option in the S diesel in any event where you have to option it into the car. In so far as it being just a gimmick, i dont think that was the intention. I just feel that in a practical sense it mustn't have been possible for all of the three settings to match the coil spring rates to perform in perfect harmony. This is where the hydraulic system has it in the sense it has made the best out of the shocks and spring rates in the one setting. It felt to me that pasm's sports is the setting where the shock and coil rates match perfectly and the normal setting is slightly compromised to provide a fall back setting for those lazier times. Comfort felt a bit of a bridge too far away from that sweet spot hence the overly floaty sensation giving an impression the car is riding mainly on the coils with far too little assistance happening from the shocks.

Thankfully all S's out here come standard with the pasm and air, the new S diesel included, so we don't have the choice to delete it and save money if we felt the need. In my Diesel S order I've also added the PTV plus as well and i'm also told the PDDC is available in the S diesel as is the case with the V8 petrol S car but i'm not selecting that primarily because of the 10K cost. My gut feeling is PDDC isn't a necessity as the car is so well behaved as it is, although like all options they would be nice to have if they were more sensibly priced. Porsche needs to get their act together on that....and that may never happen. Problem with any options as you know is that you never see the money back on resale and resale prices are always gauged off the cars original base price so any extras you put in are never fully recovered or appreciated by the second owner as worth any where near what you paid for them. A real user pay system imposed on the initial buyer..

As you would have read the new diesel S also gets the latest tech 4wd system and I imagine it's similar to what's used in the GTS, unlike the TDI 6 which has a more conventional AWD system if not a very good one.

My experience with the pasm in the current petrol V8 S and on TDI's which have had the pasm option fitted is as previously stated. It's really only in the sports setting that you get a sense you've gained a more polished ride handling combo over the stock hydraulic system, whereas in normal mode it's a bit touch and go imho and, comfort is like the car is relying 95% on the coils with extremely little assistance from the shocks. It's overly floaty and even on rougher roads with
irregularities and undulations the car doesn't display the level of stability you'd expect to sustainably put up with it in that comfort setting. The GTS on the other hand in comfort also has a that sense the shocks have been taken a long way out of play and has a bouncier feeling from the stiffer coils. Best left in normal or sports imo, and that applies to both GTS and S. Comfort is still there but you may find yourself not using it much at all because the springs and shocks feel they are not working sufficiently in sync as they are in the other settings.

Manifold

^ I agree with these comments on the suspension settings on the GTS. Comfort is too floaty and only useful for highway driving, where not much turning is involved. Sport provides great handling and is my default setting, but is firm enough to feel rough on bad roads. Normal is a reasonable compromise for bad roads, but still somewhat rough on those roads. Overall, if I had to drive often on bad roads, I wouldn't get the GTS. But on decent or better roads, the GTS is as close to a sports car as I've run across in an SUV.

sfo

PDCC not available on Diesel S in the EU and the US .. unlikely to be available in Australia.

Joseph O'Reilly

Thanks both. Maybe others here will think it is a mistake but i have deleted PASM and kept PTV+. All of the options have their justification, and my thinking was as follows: GTS and Diesel S may be the most desirable pair of Cayennes, but from what I have read and know about their set-ups, they are quite different performance-wise. One is a practical sports car substitute, the other a heavy torque monster. So first decision made: torque. I was always a 928 over 911 kind of driver. Next, having never owned a PASM/AS car, won't know what I am missing, but have spent time with the honda/acura SUV family where "super handling all wheel drive" was the main difference between normal and premium brand drivetrains. the trick there seems to be similar to what porsch offers with PTV+. Better steering and cornering and grip through braking and torque management. Based on what the dealer told me ("Pasm and A/S are only important with 20in and larger wheels") and what I have read on this and other Cayenne forums, I am counting on Porsche having sorted the standard steel suspension quite well, and that it will already be a big improvement over our 2008 X3 S diesel (teeth rattling) and any other car I have driven to date. Yet the proposition of PTV+ seems too good to pass over on a big, heavy, powerful SUV, and should be that extra trick to make the most out of the Diesel S drivetrain for a 958 newbie. My taxes have already financed smooth roads in Germany, so a trick suspension would feel like paying twice, and I plan to own the beast long after one could reasonably expect the air suspension, or even the PASM, to remain trouble-free! Still if I were in the US, I would go for PASM in lieu of paying for decently paved driving surfaces!

speed21

So manifold is this now a game changer? Meaning the car isn't as pleasant on those longer trips where there is usually varied roads surfaces? Or is it still more than acceptable for this kind of car? Nothing worse than doing a long haul and thinking if only i was in a...

Hmm. Seems on our list it's an available option for the S. I'll confirm that and let you know. It's not available in the V6TDI...but that's not an S variant. My only problem with ticking the box is the 7690.00 price tag. The PTV plus including rear axle differential lock is 3590.00 so that's in the game. I think id go the full leather at 7690.00 instead on the basis the car is starting to feel the money with that in.
You've got to draw a line somewhere with these options...

speed21

I think this is logical. Once you shift away from the 19" to a larger dia wheel you will lose ride quality so the pasm is a safe fallback position having the soft spongy/softer floaty settings. I found the few cayenne TDI V6D's i've driven with the hydraulic have all had the 19 and they ride fine...really good combo for the car with those wheels....and nothing like an X3. Ive driven a TDI with the pasm on 19" and again felt the sport was the more used selection. But in the V8 S which had the 21" the pasm seemed to go better with those rims and lower profile tires. That said i again found myself moving to and from the normal and sports. Either was pretty good in that car....not as floaty feeling as in the TDI with 19" in normal. A Cayenne would have to go a long way back to have a ride as harsh as an X3S. My wife has one of those now and while it handles great, it sure is a a teeth rattler. I think it's just a BMW thing. None of them seen to ride very well at all.

Manifold

Really depends on your roads. All of my long trips are on decent or better roads, so I leave it in Sport with no problems. But there are a few bad local roads that I avoid because they're too rough in any of the suspension settings.

I'll put it this way. If you need an SUV but long for a sports car, the GTS is the choice. If you need an SUV and comfort is a high priority, consider a different Cayenne or different SUV, but don't go to the other extreme; for example, I tried a Mercedes ML and it was so floaty and the handling so floppy that I just couldn't drive one. Best value I've seen so far in an SUV that handles well is the Mazda CX-9.

Manifold

I would try one with PTV+ versus one without, back to back. I'd be surprised if the difference is noticeable at anything less than jail speeds, but I could be wrong.

Joseph O'Reilly

You are probably right. I've made the configuration process harder for myself by not simply test driving all the iterations. Aside from going by what I've read on rennlist, the leap of faith I've made is that PTV+ will matter more for a high-riding SUV than for a 911, and that it works as advertised. And there are places in Germany where jail speeds are legal.

Manifold

I forgot one important point. You can also improve the ride quality by raising the ride height. For example, normal stiffness and height is considerably more compliant than sport stiffness and lowered height.

speed21

Interesting. So with the raised height in GTS, is it the same as the regular height on on S? or, is it higher?

Btw on the PTV + it's quoted by Porsche as being noticeable at low speeds. Exactly where and how i don't know. I must say i found the GTS without PTV+ a very good handler so i guess only a back to back test in a GTS with it and without would tell the true story. Doesn't appear any of these that have come out here as dealer order have either the PDDC or PTV+. The dealers that have these cars are generally spec'ing with the Pana Roof, keyless entry, 18 ways, sports C. Also seen 2 without the 18 ways but with the other options as stated. They are selling very quickly it would appear. I see the main vulnerability with the GTS as being its poor resale values 2 years on (based upon the previous GTS model i imagine) vs the diesels which apparently attract much stronger interest and much better values on the used market. I guess this is something that has to be lived with as a reality. 60% of Cayennes sold here are the TDI, 25% V8S and i guess the rest are a mix of turbos and now GTS. I imagine once the V8DS comes out the petrol S will be very hard hit....possibly the GTS too if talk strengthens on it getting a V8D into the future. Have you read this?

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257A28000DE2B9

I'd say the V8D has further tuning potential....

endless_corners

There is definitely a place for comfort setting. Rough roads. Although my car is in sport/low 95% of the time. I never use "normal" it's like no mans land. I like the extremes.

Mike in CA

I have the full alphabet soup; PASM, PTV+, A/S, and PDCC so it's hard to separate out what's doing what, but my S has exceptional turn-in for an SUV. I attribute this mainly to PTV+ which is designed to help rotate the car into a turn and improve steering response. It's noticeable at all speeds. PTV+ also includes an electronically controlled rear diff which can be locked with a console switch in low traction situations. Personally, I wouldn't pass on it if you have a choice.