Slow Guy

Where are you going to be/where will you be needing to go when the starter finely fails?

touareg

I live in the Boston area myself, I keep within the 17 mile or so radius (minus the Atlantic of course) of the city, getting a tow 24x7 is not a problem. Once in a while I head out towards Worcester, but even out that way, not a problem getting a tow. Assuming my phone is dead, I am parked in a remote spot, there is a snow storm, and it is after midnight I might be SOL and freeze to death.

Seriously though, everywhere I go is well populated and I would most definitely not take the truck into the woods or something putting myself in a situation, that would be pretty stupid Be prepared right?

touareg

Too add to the theory it is the starter that is the problem.

6F this morning, car cranked once but struggled, didn't start per usual. Then tried the 2nd time, cranked slow, then faster and faster and on 8th crank car started. (usually starts on the 3rd, all based on ear of course) Car has been sitting for 2 weeks as well and outside.

My limited knowledge of batteries says if it was bad, the first crank would have the most draw, 2nd through 9th would decrease in crank speed and at 6F outside, that should kill a few starting amps.

I am still going with the starter is partially fried and not turning that well.

Slow Guy

Happens quite frequently with me with my riding mower and I've had it happen in cars too. Don't know if it's getting lubrication that's allowing it to rotate more easily or if it's the battery warming up providing more juice or what but it does happen that way.

Not to say it can't be the starter but I wouldn't eliminate the battery based just on those symptoms. Esp at 6 deg F.

deilenberger

If you're sure you want to go with the starter..

Just a point - in very cold weather battery output is limited by the temperature of the battery. When you run the starter, you warm the battery internally, and your cranking-amps go up. So.. a bad battery can exhibit the same behavior you're describing. And getting a battery load-tested at someplace like Autozone is free, which is a world of cheaper then needlessly replacing a good starter.

Your starter could be bad, but.. before spending that sort of $$ I'd like to be sure of it.

mjr_cayenne04

Not sure if this was posted yet, but issue could be starter "draw" - failing starter drawing to much power, hence, apparent lag. This will lead to premature battery drain as well, and eventually, starter failure. Some shops can test starter draw for you.

touareg

Thanks Guys,

I have replaced the battery 2 times and on the third in 3 years, always had them tested and told they were OK.

Hence me being convinced it is the starter

Basically I am not throwing more money at it till I break down :-p

ALEV8

I'm more into replacing the fuel pump to bring the idle smoothly back to life than the starter at this point.....I'm sure it's the fuel pump or filter check valve. Likely I'll cave and put a starter in if symptoms persist. I'm keeping the CTT so Turbo S A arms going in as well.

gbstu

On cold mornings (<15F) the starter would stall on the first attempt, the next try the engine would generally turn over and start. Since the starter stalled the battery voltage would drop and give a false four wheel drive failure warning (I have a new Interstate battery).

I replaced the starter last weekend and my troubles are solved. I purchased a rebuilt starter and new intake gaskets from Vertex Automotive; I used the instructions for coolant replacement from ECS.

BTW, you CAN get the starter out with the aluminum coolant pipes installed....it took about 15mins of wrestling but was able to get it through the opening.

The whole job took about 4hrs, I did break one of the breather hoses while wrestling the starter, mine were quite brittle.

Hope this helps, Stu

Frutti_pig

Great thread and replies!
Did you take any pictures of the starter swap out?
Cheer FP

gbstu

Here's the only pic I took:

Frutti_pig

Great place to put a starter )

endless_corners

porsche does a lot of convenient placement.. Like horns.

touareg

Stu, thanks for the update.

I know your pipes were replaced, did you do it?

My suspicion on my car is that the pipes were not replaced until they exploded Happened with the previous owner, before I got the car at around 70k.

My seal on the transfer case was damaged from coolant, and I suspect that is what ruined the starter as well.

Earlier advice was to always replace the starter if you had an unknown leak for a while with the coolant pipes.

I wonder if you know you had a similar situation, was the old starter corroded?

I too would once in a while get a misfire code, or 4x4 error because of the extra draw on the battery trying to turn the beast over on its belly

deilenberger

No worse than the average BMW (which requires intake removal to access, and often dropping the rear of the transmission for one bolt..) and better than most of the new twin-turbo's (where it appears engine removal is needed to R&R almost anything on the engine. The crap just wraps around the engine to where you can't see it.)