endless_corners

21's, pdcc + no fear = success

bgsntth

Anything over 80-85mph induced a puckering effect - the ability to lower the suspension and the GTS-specific height, PASM, PDCC, good weight distribution, and 295's at each corner do wonders. Even when I was running 255/55-18 Pirelli ATRs on the GTS it could sanely go through at 75-80mph; whereas, my present RRS Sport S\C with the Active Sways and Summer 20" tires invokes the Stability control at 65-70mph in a big way, with 75mph being the "comfort" limit with Stability off - the Sport is very heavy, and really is a supremely comfortable leather-clad British tractor with track shoes on.

Tex94

Didn't realize wheel size would make that kind of difference on the curves. I knew handling would improve somewhat but that seems to be a material change. Might need to dump my 18s for some 20s.

TexasRider

Ok. So my wife and went over to Porsche for the Cayenne test drive. It is a fun car. It is not a truck to me. I was surpised at the interior room in the Cayenne. She had the Hybrid S on test and while I did not drive it I got the idea of it.

Porshe is really pushing on the diesels right now. I said no, having 40 years of diesel experience in everything from 500 hp to 5000 hp, then boats, and even some little trucks working to support us overseas. They want to sell you on the mpg - the $7K difference even with the mpg difference will never be made without 100,000 miles or more, if ever. That is not including diesel maintainance. Anyway we tabled that for later. They have the diesels in Houston, but are waiting to get Porsche diesel qualified and techs qualfied before they can be released to the dealer for delivery.

The Cayenne drove great and was spacious. It had the air suspension in it. I dont see Mrs TexasRider ever using anything but the normal mode setting. It was soft on luxury and bounced. The sport setting we didnt really have anything to judge by. Power was good enough. Again they were gee whiz it is good on the diesel - yeah ok.

We got down to some initial pricing after a drive. Of course I knew to stay off the option list too heavy. I had it in my mind to get in it at $65K for a base price of $49K. Hmmm maybe not.

WIth just a few clicks the diesel was at $80K plus, and the V-6 at $75K plus. I have not yet decided how I feel about that. I am just a bit too old school to think about that this is really worth approaching $100K all in.

So, not to be cheap or anything, but I am going to seriously look at whether the air suspension is required for her(prob not) and some other options too. Probably I am thinking along the lines of the V-6, premium plus pachage, and a radio upgrade, although the Bose is only 50-50 here on the forum vs the stock sound system, and maybe the Turbo wheels and hold it to $65- 70K. I see why the Infiniti M37S we have for her now was such a good buy .

We went back by Land Rover too. The Evoque fell out of the running .

We did drive the Sport. Big, powerful, Range Rover-ish, refrig in the middle console ok, but I did find out they only get 20K miles on brakes for $1500. They get about 15mpg . But it is somewhat more "distinct" than the Porsche in ways. I had read some Cayenne reviews that said it looked like "everything else" and I guess it does in some ways.

Talking to a customer while there at Porsche who wanted to get " a couple of hundred thousand trouble free miles " from a Porsche , or other, and asked what I might recommend. Honestly I said "Check the box that says Ford F-250 Powerstroke."

I did look online at the Ford (gasp) and the new Explorder Sport. I see it is a serious upgrade in the Explorer line and you can easily see the Ford influence on the Ranage ROver Sport of today. Even the switch gear figures are the same - but that SVO twin turbo motor is going to be good. They have not even begun production on these at Ford.

On a different note, and one thing that discourages me from putting darn near $100K in a Cayenne, is the used Porsche prices on the dealer lot. I saw some nice 2008 and 2009 cars there for big discounts. Back to the fuel "savings" , I dont care too much about fuel costs savings when that $100K new Porsche is going to depreciate to $40,000 in four years from now. So $60K deprec, and then add $10 - $15,000 in normal maintainance , tires etc is $75,000 costs for 5 years. The $3-4,000 fuel savings dont even count compared to that. I have seen it before - it just made more impact to me now. LOL.

So the Buy List got a lot shorter .

XR4Tim

Cayennes tend to go through brakes at 20k-30k miles as well. The Cayenne S Hybrid should do notably better on brakes because of the regenerative braking (uses the hybrid module to slow the vehicle down instead of the brakes, when light pedal is applied).

TexasRider

Thank you Tim. I thought it might be in that range too.

One thing was that of course the Cayenne fit her use very well and she truly liked the Cayenne. She is pretty, and pretty conservative too , so we got a bit to decide on. She picked up on the distinctive-ness, or not, quick too. I said Porsche had to stay with the 911 looks, and always put that out there , in their other models.

While at the dealer and she was looking at colors etc, the parts manager who is a bud of mine walked over and asked which she was going to get. I told him maybe this Panamera here on the showroom . I said lets take it out. He said he would have to get permission from the GM of all the dealerships as it was ....wait for it ... an eye popping $217,000. It had "options" - yes I said I know a little about that.

Makes my Cayenne shopping look downright in-expensive.

bgsntth

For the Cayenne, it sounds like PASM without the air suspension is the way to go; albeit, I agree with others here that the Cayenne's air suspension is better than either Rovers on and offroad.

I also can confirm that the non-Brembo Rover's brakes do only last ~20K, and that they do cost $1.5K - $1.8K to replace if you go through the dealer. The OE pads/rotors are incredibly soft and dust like hell. Hence, I replaced our FFRR's with EBC rotors and Hawk LTS pads, and they are right now at the 20K mark with very little wear.

They are going to introduce a new FFRR in 2013 and a new RRS in 2014. Both will be 800-1K lighter with new engines and retaining a transfer case, making the current ones very dated, very quickly. For the price, the Explorer Sport is very intriguing. I'm wondering if its twin-turbo V6 is headed for the RRS in 2014?

TexasRider

Thanks for that input too bg.

The Porsche is in tops for now, with the Ford right there not too far behind.

She is going to test a regular Explorer tomorrow - although the manager at our Ford dealer and I put a Sport together in the computer with every last option there is from Ford on it today. He and I also went in the back and opened up a white and blue 650Hp Shelby for me. Nice beast there.

The Rovers have moved down the list over the week and are out for us.

A couple of our friends have them now and say they love them and will always have Rovers from now on. One has owned their 2 Range Rovers about a year, and the other one about 4 weeks in the Sport SC, but he did go buy his wife a new Sport a couple of weeks ago. So they are both 2 Rover families.

I would more have a Cayenne and a Cayman especially with the deals they had on some low mileage used Caymans. And a F350.

The Porsche leads on style and being a Porsche. The quality and materials should hold up nicely to her milder use. Plus European delivery . The Ford is second for us on utility and and power. And price. The Explorer Sport with six pages of stuff, and every option and the twin turbo, barely breaks the Cayenne base price stripped.

The Porsche dealer is across Houston for us too. Our Ford dealer is close by, knows us, and if anything would happen she would be picked up and in a loaner within 30 minutes. So as nice as the Porsche is, and the sign in the garage says "Porsche Parking Only" , your dealer counts in too. The Rover dealer is even further away and harder to get to.

We could always just swap the Infinit M in for a new one. But what fun would that be , especially since she wants a SUV style again.

We have never looked at or driven this many cars . We generally just go get the one we, or she, selects. So it has been some education and fun too.

Thanks for all you guys help.

RESP

IMHO - Value over price.

Make sure you are getting the value you will need over time.

You (sorry "she") will be driving the suv more often than the number of times you might be taking it to the dealer (unless you get the Ford, where having the dealer nearby might be critical )

Happy deciding!

TexasRider

^^^^

Agreed all the way. Plus a trip to Dearborn would not be the same .

endless_corners

Rust belt delivery program.

TexasRider

Well, as an update, the Ford fell out of the race - but a new contender emerged in the form of the Mercedes Benz ML 350 Blue Tec.

We have never driven more than 3 cars and even that was only 2 brands. But this time we thought we would see what really was out there for her. Especially with the Porsches out the door price really getting up there. While I am biased for the Porsche, this vehicle is an SUV afterall and a lot more on Utility and Vehicle than on Sport . If someone had told me back a few years ago that I would even consider a SUV close to the $100,000 range, I would have known they were wacked out.

She really liked the ride of the MB 350 and it comes out way ahead when we add the options. While I am quite sure MB can build diesels, as MB has been doing for the last 70 plus years or more, I have to see about that in the 350 as none were there for test drive. I see that the primary Mercedes color is Black too - at least from Mercedes of all models on the lot. While I am on that, I would think that every last Porsche ever made would be offerred in Guards Red .

When my wife drove the first diesel Porsche off the boat and at our dealer here Thursday, she liked it, but I may have to re-consider the PASM. While the difference was not great it was noticeable enough. So I am back growing the options and bottom line of the Cayenne.

At the moment the Mercedes is in the lead by a nose based on its more reasonable option costs, the preferred ride for her, and probably equally as important is dealer location close to us. The Porsche leads on sporting feeling, on getting it any way you want it, but loses some to the stiff option costs and the 40 miles away to the dealer.

The decision and check writing is coming up soon for me.

But it has been fun and I learned a lot from all the inputs here.

I also got a full refresher on what is out there in the way of SUVs and models and brands. There are a lot of high quality choices today. It is also worth noting how much weight and goodies and gadgets these cars and SUVs have added these days versus say my older Eddie Bauer Broncos, Suburbans, X5 , Escalade etc.

Does any body else remember buying a $30 or $40,000 Porsche back in the 1980's and your friends, co workers , and your parents being shocked that you paid that MUCH for a car - well folks, things are different today and that's a fact!

I also learned that it is likely that a gently used Cayman S could join my cars here in the future , but I am going to have to get on building another garage with even more storage and a lift in it too before I get to there. I know a lot of you have been there and done that too.

endless_corners

You aren't going to go wrong with the merc. In some ways it's a more rational choice for the lady. I love my ML but it's shares nothing in common with today's unibody platform. Btw, why not consider the x5 diesel or touareg diesel?

TexasRider

The terms local VW dealer and POS are mutually equivalent in my mind , and come to mind at the same time. While that may be a little harsh, it is also a lot true.

While I have some trouble coming to the decision on Porsche vs MB, I would select either to a VW. I would just keep her Infiniti M37S which has been a spectacular car, before the VW. The Infiniti SUVs just dont look so good to she or I, and are even a bit fugly.

She had the X5 before and while it was Ok , it had some issues and BMW addressed that well enough, it is just not what she wants now. I also took the BMW on a longer trip and it was not that good at that for my taste. So it is time for something different.

But thanks EC. I got it down to the two and I am going to grind it out here LOL.

jerry joseph

Thank you for sharing moments of your quest for the ride that suits her best
Each of us has grown up with different cars and sharing our experiences is fun and informative
Happy trails