Christian S.

Following the Autoweek article, this weeks Autocar has it's first test of the Cayenne Turbo.

Headlines, subtitles, excerpts and conclusions are as follows....

"Supercar for all Seasons.

"Purists may hate it but the Cayenne is an extraordinary achievement: a 165mph Range Rover that outdrives an X5.

"What you want to know, before anything else, is this: under most circumstances, Porsche's new Cayenne doesn't behave or feel like an SUV; second, in the main, it does indeed drive like a Porsche. Mission accomplished? Close. On the road, the Porsche is demonstrably better than BMW's X5, it's closest rival (apart from the jointly developed, notably cheaper, VW Touareg), while off-road (on suitable tyres), the Cayenne is almost in the same league as the New Range Rover.

"And, I have to say, a day at the wheel of the Cayenne Turbo leaves only positive impressions of the Cayenne's staggering on-road abilities. Porsche's suggested blacktop-only route to the mountains south-east of Stuttgart is clearly intended to demonstrate the Cayenne's 165mph top speed - making it easily the fastest sport-ute in the world - and car-like handling. It works a treat.

"The interior, accommodating and comfortable, if a little conservative in design, is beautifully finished - much better than the 911's - and feels solid. The only interior bits shared with the Touareg are the steering column stalks, although the general layout is clearly very similar.

"It should be obvious that Porsche has achieved its goal of building the Porsche of SUVs. No doubt the shrieks from true believers will continue. But not after they drive the Cayenne.

"Massively talented Cayenne keeps faith with Porsche heritage. It's fast, surefooted and surprisingly nimble for an SUV.

The magazine also describes the on and off road development of the car - recounting the succesful negotiation of the Hell's Revenge trail at Moab, Utah.

As for future development of the vehicle, the magazine expects a 250bhp V6 in 2003 as well as V8 or V10 diesels in 2004 as well as a Targa variant with full length sliding roof in the same year.

Wachuko

Wow!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

I know this was and still is a very disputed subject... but I have grown to like this SUV...

Whether I will be able to affor it, well, that is another story...

John H. in DC Area

Christian, thanks for the excerpts.

Based upon everything I've read in the car mags and looking at the stats quoted by Porsche, I'm inclined to agree that the Cayenne has no SUV peer in terms of performance. Actually, given Porsche's engineering excellence, there really was virtually zero chance that Porsche would miss the mark in that context. If they had, that would have been the first sign of the end of the world as we know it.

But what I want to know, and haven't really read much about, either in mags or quotes from Porsche execs, is how they missed the mark so badly with styling. It's almost universally panned or taken to task for bland, uninspiring, mutt-like styling (no offense to the dog-loving crowd). Sure, form follows function for Porsche, but I also haven't heard any engineering justifications for why it looks so bland. Months ago, when the first pictures were revealed, I read a couple of quotes from a Porsche exec that they believed the target buyers are perceived to prefer understated styling. Again, this seems like a decent assumption, presumably tested through their marketing studies. However, understated is one thing, and utter lack of a coherent visual character (which I think plagues the Cayenne) is another, and could perhaps impact the long-term attractiveness of the vehicle to a very ficle buying demographic.

Of course, there's a fine styling line between fad-ish styling and timeless styling, and the latter typically requires a hard-to-achieve combination of design boldness and restraint, but Porsche struck the right balance with all of their other models. BMW did pretty darn well with the X5. I find the RR actually quite harmonious design-wise, in a yacht-like kind of way. How did Porsche fall short here?

If I strain hard to find something positive to say about the Cayenne's styling, I find the front view of the Turbo to have a nice, menacing visage. Otherwise, the profile is tepid (the lateral view of the upturned nose is unappealing), the side window designs have no Porsche-like character. The rear wheel arches and tail from the rear view show a faintly exaggerated, slope-shouldered quality a la the 993/996, but that quality is not exaggerated nearly enough.

It must be that the marketing folks convinced the stylists that bland styling was the way to go. Can some of you whip-smart marketing types help me understand that argument/justification?

A few have said they've seen prototype Cayenne's impressively barreling past them on the Autobahn or in the Colorado Rockies. The sight of a fast vehicle in motion is indeed a sight to behold, but couldn't they have made it look better at rest?

Is it too soon to wonder when the first re-design will come? Similarly, I can't wait to see what the aftermarket supplies in terms of re-designed bumpers and fenders.

Regards

Christian S.

John, this weeks edition of Autocar is a bit of a "Porsche special" offering hints of what the revised 996/7 will look like and a lot of information about the rest of the range, future plans etc. Not sure whether it is available stateside, but worth getting your hands on if it is.

The question of the styling is addressed in a couple of different ways. There is an article where leading "industry insiders" give their opinion on the vehicle and many are not convinced by the styling or placement of the product within the car market.

The styling and possible development / redevelopment of it, is given a bit of a twist with a quote from Harm Lagaay, Porsche design boss, saying " The Cayenne is the start of a very long story. Our designs evolve quite a bit; it is likely that we will want to take the Cayenne in many directions.

That, I suppose could be taken to mean anything, but I suspect that the shape will evolve.

The senior writer who tested the Cayenne and wrote the test article adds some interesting info regarding the styling at the end of his weekly column.

Under a strapline "Better late than never" he writes;

" Porsche opened its Californian studio in May '99, 15 years after most car makers decided Los Angeles was the ideal location for a second design studio. When SsangYong was taken over by Daewoo and ceased to be a car-maker, Porsche took over the Huntington Beach facility and named it Styling Studio Porsche Engineering Services. Currently eight designers work in California. By mid '99, however, Brit Steve Murkett's design for the Cayenne was finished. So the Cayenne was designed in Weissach and not in America, where more than 50 percent of the SUVs are expected to be sold."

That suggests that any redesign / evolution will be very US design led.....

Christian S.

Further info on the upcoming Porsche model range as provided by Autocar is:

2003; 996 based GT3 / Carrera 4S / Turbo Cabrio. V10 Carrera GT deliveries start. Cayenne V6.

2004; Cayenne Turbodiesel & Targa. Facelifted 911 Coupe launched - power rises to 350 bhp.

2005; New 911 cabrio. All new Boxster & Boxster Coupe.

The magazine also believes that the New Boxster will have a turbo variant producing circa 320 bhp.

Also Heinz Neusser, Director of Powertrain development is quoted directly saying categorically there will be NO V8 911.

993RS

I for one do not ever intend test driving a Cayenne, for the simple reason that I do not like big heavy vehicles no matter who makes them. What I always liked about the 911 was the small size, the seating position is low and close to the road and the comparatively light weight.

Ahmet

So does that mean a flat 8 is still a possibility for a 911?
Ahmet

Christian S.

No Ahmet, according to the Heinz Neusser quote "Our sports cars, like the 911 and Boxster, will remain flat sixes. The V8 can be usd in other cars, but not for the sports cars. The V10 for the Carrera GT is different, it was developed by the racing department."

Flying Finn

[quote]Originally posted by Christian Stewart:
[QB]...The V8 can be used in other cars, but not for the sports cars...QB]<hr></blockquote>

Listen what Porsche is saying:
"can be used in other cars, but not for the sports cars..."

There was a time when they said:
"Every Porsche is a sports car..."

John H. in DC Area

Christian, I'm happy to hear the teasers about future design possibilities for the Cayenne platform. It might take some work for them to get this wine just right.

As an aside, how hard would it have been, as a practical or financial matter, for Porsche to change the design of the Cayenne after it had been created in mid-1999? Tooling and machines for body panels, etc.

For those people who had the privilege of the sneak preview of the Cayenne at the marketing functions in early 2002, did the design change in a material way between that viewing and the official public debut of the car in summer/fall 2002?

What other Porsche cars, if any, did Brit Steve Murkett design?

Where's the visual captivation? I worry that they missed the mark so badly with the initial styling that they won't attract the intended buyers in the numbers they are planning for. My wife, for one, says she won't consider it, solely because of its styling. And I can't call her shallow because the strong visual appeal of the 993 was one of the primary characteristics that drew me to the car initially. While I remain intrigued by the performance and engineering stats of the Cayenne, she could care less about how fast it goes (she's a conservative driver) or how it hugs in corners. Not to be paternalistic, but I don't want her pushing the limits of physics in an SUV. I don't want her pulling 993TT-like avoidance maneuvers on the beltway. Again, marketers, exactly how do I sell the Cayenne to my better half? Just so the family can have ANOTHER Porshce, though not a sports car? That reason, alone, seems an absurd justification to me. I've shelled out for the 993TT, so we get regular sports car thrills. In fact, having one sports car almost compels me not to want an overly sporty car/suv for my second mode of family transportation, for reasons of comfort, practicality, minimalism, and avoidance of purely conspicuous consumption. Why should we get anything more than a Chevy Tahoe/Suburban or basic X5 for our needs?

Strangely, even putting aside my unmitigated passion for the marque, I am consistently able to reason my way through purchasing the 993TT (style, engineering, fun), but I can't seem to do the same with the Cayenne. I understand the business justification for Porsche building the Cayenne perfectly well, I just can't reason my way to seriously considering purchasing the Cayenne.

pilotshark

Regarding performance; Porsche used to compete with sports CARS. Quite well I might add. Sigh, those were the days. I mean no disrepect to anyone here. I am just disapointed and frustrated.

Anir

John H,

You did a wonderful job of summarizing the styling issues that both my wife and I have with the Cayenne as well. I also think that the X5 looks nice, and especially like the '03 RR - so much so that I purchased one.

I'd bet that most people place a large emphasis on exterior styling, even if they try to deny it. Ferraris are legendary for their beautiful lines, and folks pay a huge premium for these Italian cars despite the fact that much less expensive cars can be purchased with similar performance. I absolutely love the lines on the 993, and it still makes me smile when I look at it.

I would have probably bought the Cayenne as our family hauler and tow vehicle if its design was a bit more "truck-like" and cohesive. Certainly, I can't be the only Porsche enthusiast who put his money elsewhere because he didn't like the styling. On the other hand, Porsche might not need to care what I think, since the Cayenne looks like it will sell well regardless of its appearance.

mpm '95 C4

[quote]Originally posted by John H. in DC Area:
<strong> I worry that they missed the mark so badly with the initial styling that they won't attract the intended buyers in the numbers they are planning for. My wife, for one, says she won't consider it, solely because of its styling...While I remain intrigued by the performance and engineering stats of the Cayenne, she could care less about how fast it goes (she's a conservative driver) or how it hugs in corners. Not to be paternalistic, but I don't want her pushing the limits of physics in an SUV. </strong><hr></blockquote>


My thoughts exactly...