Mike in Chi

Mike in CA,

thanks, I appreciate knowing it was meaningful for you, especially since it took so long to type by my hunt and peck method.


Mike in Chi

Gump993

Hey Guys... Why you all so upset because porsche want to build a SUV... Thats if you can call it that. V8 twin turbo.. Not your average family wagon. Porsche build the best cars.. They just happen to be sports cars... and soon big mean 4x4 machines.
As far as coments like Mercedes lost its premium image when it started building cars below $40,000.. Reality check... Ever been outside of the USA.. You might have noticed that most of the Taxi Cabs are diesel powered Mrcedes. Not all Mercedes are fully loaded fancy machines that only rich people can afford.
If you really believe that Porsche are the best at making cars.. Then you should be anxious to see what they can do for a 4x4.
I am a 933 owner... Aircooled rules!!! But hey I've had a 944. Admire the new 996 and boxter... 928 was an amazing machine and soon the Cayenne will be another fantastic SPORTS CAR.. No car with a TT V8 can be called anything but a sports car.. Look at the Lambo 4x4.. Ever heard it drive by you...
So why don't you not complain... and wait for Porsche to amaze you once again.

Cheers

Doc

I must admit, that I fall in the category of those who were not too thrilled with the prospect of a Porsche SUV. That's not to say I do not understand WHY they are doing it. In fact I must give accolades to several of you who have made me feel a little better about the whole prospect. However there is still one blaring issue, which I am surprised no one has mentioned. ...Timing.

OK, I suppose I'm on board now with the whole idea of Porsche expanding their market to make more money and support their heritage. But in this economy and with the apparent decline of SUV popularity, is this a case of too much too late?

I certainly hope not, but it IS something to think about.

Mike in Chi

Doc

I share your concern:

(posted above)

I hope there is still a market out there for the upscale SUV.

M

ked

Yeah, Porsche takes forever to develop new vehicles. They have fantastic talent, but are not too deep. Combined with the paying customers for design work (Harley, et. al.) they can't respond to "real time market trends" (up or down) quite like the Big Boys.
So, I believe they commit to long term concepts & products that transcend (hopefully!) whatever slings & errors the world economy presents. Thus, their analysis right now might be to a) not rush to intro. the Cayenne, b) make sure the first 1 - 3 years production is sold out and VERY well received in the press, the hard core, well-heeled Porsche owner base, & the dealers, c) is impeccable in service & performance factors, d) compete in the world rally championship w/ it & e) then, "sell into" a returning-to-health economy. This all might work, with a great car, a little luck, and a solid recovery within 2 years.

Also, they MUST return to world class, dominating sports prototype racing - something else that ought to be long term committment by Porsche.

Luke

Even though the "pepper" is out of the norm of Porsche's style, look at the Boxster. The Boxster wouldn't make sense unless the 924 paved the way. People didn't accept the 924 but it grew into the 944>968>986 and now they sell tons of them.

BlueMax

In addition to a Porsche, I also own a sports bike. The current controversy on this board regarding the SUV and that Porsche is not being true to its core market/business also has/had parallels in the sports bike world. There is outright belittling or worse from the spots bie group vs. the tourer group vs. the cruiser group. Yet, all the major manufacturer's whether Japanese (Yamaha etc.) or European (Ducati etc.)make product in each segment. I've also noticed lately in the motorcycle forums a refreshing trend where people realize that it is the sales of the for instance relatively low-tech cruisers that permit the manufacturer's to devote resources keeping the sports bikes leading edge at affordable prices.

Just a little food for thought.

Gonzo

Let's take that motorcycle comparison a little further. There are street bikes and there are dirt bikes. There are also those in-between bikes, the dual-purpose. The dual purpose is a Fun bike, but we should be able to admit that it is a compromise- it isn't as good in the dirt as a real dirtbike, and it isn't as good on the street as a real streetbike. The Cayenne reminds me of the dual purpose- a jack of all trades but master of none. I would prefer a 996 to a Cayenne at the N-ring. I would prefer a Grand Cherokee to the Cayenne in a blizzard.

To steal a line, the Cayenne is the wrong car at the wrong time from the wrong company.

I've never heard the Boxster refered to as a descendant of the 924, 944, 968...
How does a front-engined four cylinder become a mid-engined flat 6? Would you care to elaborate?

Adrian

Guys,
Whether we like it or not Porsche has to make money. Porsche engineering has been at the forefront for a long long time. They design everything from new Porsche models to wind powered electrical generators.
Did you know that Porsche designed a complete range of motorbikes in the 1970s. The whole package was sold when permission to build them inhouse was refused (or so the story goes). Guess who bought them. A clue, this company started in 1915 and started building motorbikes in 1923, head office is in Muenchen,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: Audi also designed and built a motorcycle and this was also abandoned.

ked

In terms of Product Theme, the Boxster recaptulates the 550. In terms of Merchandising (price points), Porsche has always tried to offer an entry level model having high performance for the dollars ("best value). So, I see that path as;
Speedster, 912, 914, 912E, 924, 944, Boxster.

I think those of us who are "value-oriented" will carefully compare the Cayenne's low $ offering to the X5 and the "Sporting" version of VW's cousin to the Cayenne. I think this will all be great fun in '02!

CagS

hi guys,
I may be new to this, but i kno for one thing that Porsche has definitely been going down the drain ever since they started making the 996 and the Boxster. It seems like it is all about money now, there is no pride anymore. Yea it is still a hell of a lot of fun to own and drive a Porsche, but where is the skill that it used to take to be able to drive one of these cars?
To me it seems like Porsche is just widening its consumer basin and is just going to put more cheap parts into these cars that will never last.
Porsche has always been on the cutting edge with performance technology. All the Cayenne is going to do is put the Porsche symbol in the toilet bowl. I remember when it used to be a big occasion to see a Porsche on the road, now they are all over the place. From the Boxster, to the 996 Water-Cooled cars, and now the Cayenne (a family car) its just pitiful.

ked

While I appreciate the motivation behind your sentiment, at least we may still see (& each of us have the chance to make our own buying evaluation) newly minted ones on the road, & have parts availability assured via factory sources and hold out the hope for an independent course that may yet "live & learn". Or would you rather Porsche become another Bugatti ("history") or Alfa (wholly owned subsidiary of one of Big Boys)?

CagS

With the recent sales of the 996 cars and the Boxsters, Porsche has made enough money to carry it through without the formation of an SUV.
The 911 has always been their number one car, and now it seems like they want to take that emphasis off of it.
I appreciate your response.
-Steve

exc911ence

Wow, where do I start? Firstly, I am not overly keen on the direction that Porsche has been going recently. When they pulled out of GT1 in order to funnel their resources into an SUV, I was horrified! The Cayenne may well be an interesting vehicle and I'm sure that they'll sell tons of the things but I, for one, have no interest in one. It's not that I am anti-SUV, I have always had a Jeep product in the driveway since before they became fashionable but for me, a Porsche should be a car. The idea of racing it, on the other hand, does intrigue me and could very well sway my opinion on the vehicle. Porsche has always been a racing company first in my eyes. Still, if I was in the market for a truck to take off-road or to use as a tow vehicle, I'd be looking at another Jeep or Land Rover product. Can you picture a Cayenne hauling a boat trailer or bashing its way up the Rubicon Trail? Me neither. Of course, it's not meant for these duties which brings forth the question of why? Or more to the point, what? As in what is it suppose to be? It's not a truck and it's certainly not a car... so, what then? As for the other recent Porsche cars, the 996 has grown on me on it's own merits but it's a little too watered down (no pun intended) to be a real 911. The Boxster on the other hand, is marvelous! It may be the spiritual successor to the 550 and the 914 but it is completely different in its own right. With no direct past versions to compare it to, it can and does present itself admirably. If I were in the market today for a new Porsche, I'd be walzing out of the dealership tomorrow with the keys to a Boxster S in hand. Silver on Boxster Red leather, please!

ked

Good Questions! We will have some insight to Porsche's current "soul" when we see their racing plans for the Cayenne, future Prototype Racing, and if they build the Carrera GT, won't we? I'm afraid I can picture a Cayenne being operated just like any other SUV, including as trailer fodder or back country sled - "rich people" operate expensive devices that way all the time.

Maybe its purpose will be to chew up and spit out other SUVs... X5, M-Class, etc. etc. One could do worse, I supppose...