Anir

The numerous recent negative posts, coupled with my poor firsthand experiences with two Porsche dealers, make me more convinced than ever to stick with my 993 for the next 30 years.

Porsche will still make money from me via parts, but I doubt I'll ever buy a new Porsche unless things change significantly. I'd rather have a tooth pulled than visit Bluegrass in Louisville (or Northland in Cinci, FTM, after they tried to sell us an obviously wrecked 993TT "with no history of any type of body work").

As a company, Porsche must be pretty short-sighted. I'm a bona fide car nut who has purchased a MB S500, E46 BMW M3, 993TT, and '03 Range Rover within just the past 3 1/2 years. Maybe the service will improve only when they start to feel the financial fallout from the poor customer service. What a wasted opportunity for a company with engineering excellence that is second to none.

John from WA

I'm with you on that Anir. Still looking to that new Aston coming in a couple of years. Ford can't be any worse in the service department... can they? (at least me RR service has been top notch).

John

Christian S.

Anir, Laurence, I hear what you are saying, but my impressions and experience for what little it's worth, is that 'at home' in Germany, Porsche is very different.

I've never been myself to an German OPC (would be interested to hear from those who have), but at the factory the enthusiasm and pride is very much apparent. Visit the customer centre, museum and tour the factory if you ever get the chance and you might consider the purchase of a 'new' Porsche in a different light.

To my mind the cars are still designed and built with care, pride and passion - you can almost touch it in the air at Zuffenhasen. I turned up looking pretty scruffy in a 14 year old Carrera Cab, that had looked better having just driven around Europe. I was immediately welcomed with open arms and treated as if I'd just returned with the last remaining 959 on the planet. It was serviced whilst I stayed in Stuttgart and has convinced me that Porsche is still very much the same company it has always been.

Their problem seems to come with the ownership and management of their chain of distribution outwith the home country. I'm no expert here, but our family were briefly Ferrari dealers, which means I know some of the pitfalls and difficulties in selling cars. It is a difficult balancing act that is very much dependent on the support and relationship of the importer.

If you as a dealer have no incentive to care for the marques existing customers, just to try and find new ones, it's easy to see how the current situation arises. I see it as Porsche's (and some other car manufacturers) major failing. They have the balance between short term thinking and medium/long term thinking wrong at the moment.

There is a great deal of passion for Porsche and the OPC's should be centres of this passion. If I were the Chairman of Porsche I'd look at you Anir and be worried - you ought to be at the top of their list for a new car. The fact that you are not interested in buying is something they ought to be worried about.

DJF1

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Christian S.:
<strong>Anir, Laurence, I hear what you are saying, but my impressions and experience for what little it's worth, is that 'at home' in Germany, Porsche is very different.

I've never been myself to an German OPC (would be interested to hear from those who have), but at the factory the enthusiasm and pride is very much apparent. Visit the customer centre, museum and tour the factory if you ever get the chance and you might consider the purchase of a 'new' Porsche in a different light.

To my mind the cars are still designed and built with care, pride and passion - you can almost touch it in the air at Zuffenhasen. I turned up looking pretty scruffy in a 14 year old Carrera Cab, that had looked better having just driven around Europe. I was immediately welcomed with open arms and treated as if I'd just returned with the last remaining 959 on the planet. It was serviced whilst I stayed in Stuttgart and has convinced me that Porsche is still very much the same company it has always been.

.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That is exactly the feeling I got at the factory as well. The people there were very proud and extremely friendly. The service that I got was fantastic. They even went to great pains to find out who in Germany still builts hardtops for the older style of 911's! They found the name and phone number and asked if they could find anything else for me. Not to forget the incredibly friendly telephone operator in Stuttgart who told me was from NY (!) and helped me to plan my road trip to the factory.
I really felt good visiting the factory...

One more thing,,, having worked with Germans on a proffessional level for almost 7 years, I can confirm that if your case is legit, then for sure they will take care of it. I have high confidence in their business practices and ethics from my dealings with them.

JeffES

Sorry to disagree - PCNA is not a direct extension of PAG - it is very driven by the Dealer body. In fact, there is a "huge" disconnect between NA and PAG - and it's very ugly at times. Remember, PAG once tried to "cut the cord" - but fell afoul of the various states' dealership protection laws. I've heard that the PCGB is similar....
J

Christian S.

I always get confused here (comes from only running a small family business - I'm constantly amazed when I see the labarinithine group structures of large corporations).

But the Structure reported by the most recent Porsche Group Annual report shows 100% direct ownership of Porsche GB and indirect 100% ownership of PCNA - or am I reading the damn thing wrong?

See: <a href="http://www2.us.porsche.com/english/usa/company/annualreport/group/structure/bilder/uebersichtporschegruppe.pdf" target="_blank">http://www2.us.porsche.com/english/usa/company/annualreport/group/structure/bilder/uebersichtporschegruppe.pdf</a>

George from MD

Why don't you try Dave Parsons who's head of Sales and Marketing Training in Atlanta? Assuming he's still there (I met him at a PDE a few years ago) you've contacted at least one person within Porsche NA who seemed genuinely concerned about pleasing the customer.

The phone number I have for him is 770 290-3670. Hope this helps.

laurence '97 C4S

Obviously a discussion of the nature of a dealer network is not a cut and dry situation. The dealers are independant entities from PCNA and Porsche AG. So, at the level of how long it takes for an appointment, or whether you get the loaner car you want, etc, etc, -- these are driven by the nature of the dealer ( and generally are not a reflection on Porsche).

However, this thread was about the re-purchase of a "lemon" car. How that process is handled is solely a PCNA/Porsche decision. Handled the way it was for Stirs is totally the responsibility of PCNA AND Porsche AG (the dealer can influence the process, but they are not a decision maker).

So if you believe that the approach taken with Stirs is bad (which I do), the blame is Porsche AG's. Quite frankly it is irrelevant whether PCNA takes the approach it takes with customers because Porsche AG says to, or because they are not supervised well. The bottom line is Porsche is a very arrogant car company in the way it treats its customer base. This is not a new phenomenon-- been going on for decades.

JeffES

I must respectfully disagree - to a point. While PAG did establish PCNA (actually, they purchased distribution rights back from VWoA), there is a huge disconnect between PAG and PCNA. AG has tried to establish new links, but, as I stated before, ran into the buzzsaw of American dealers.
As to LL, it is totally "up to" the dealer and distributor to make the purchaser whole - and you're right - they did a p*** poor job of it!
BTW, Dave P. has not been at PCNA for some time.
J
PS - Christian - "ownership", yes, but remember that as a distributor, not a manufacturer, in the US, they operate under a patchwork of 50 states' laws - thus the "addendum" of "lemon laws" in the owner packet.
It's a real mess - and an awful lot of folks at PAG are not happy that the US is again the largest market for those reasons. Bummer.

Christian S.

Thanks for clearing that up Jeff - seems like a real mess, with every opportunity for an 'unwilling' or 'unhelpful' cog in the works knackering the whole machine......

The key is clearly that the customer is the only thing that matters. The biggest problem IMHO, has been that over the last decade, demand has outstripped supply - Porsche dealers have had the luxury of being able to almost 'choose' their customers. Here in the UK this is currently the case re the Cayenne, although it will be interesting to see how things stand after a year. 996 and especially Boxster sales ought to be making them think right now though.

Most telling for myself is the fact that as someone in their mid-thirties who owns and runs companies turning over several million GBP, I have recieved NO sales calls regarding the Cayenne from the OPC where my old mans 02 C4 and most recent 03 Turbo were purchased. They know I'm a Porsche owner, allowed me a test drive in their Turbo demonstrator when we were all 'helping' my father decide whether to buy (bit of a no-brainer I know) and must have my details from my registering on the Cayenne web-site.

Considering how much I've defended the Cayenne in these forums, I feel like printing all my posts off and mailing copies to them and PAG, with a complete explanation as to why I'll never buy a car off them......

As for the other OPC near me - they still haven't got back to me regarding a test drive - it's only been a week I suppose...... Grrrrrr

JeffES

Christian,
As usual, you've nailed it. It's sad that "demand outstripped supply" - leading to some very poor attitudes.
Just a thought - remember the old 80/20 rule? I suspect that by doing simple things well less than 20% of the US dealers sell some 80% of the total volume.
True story (anecdotal, but still true...) I had my ear bent for several minutes by P "sales" person complaining that the build process for an ordered car was so long that by the time the car arrived the client had gone elsewhere - but it turns out that the "sales" person had NEVER contacted the client during the order time, and this id*** told me that "contacting buyers" wasn't his job. The really sad part is that that man is still employed to sell Porsches.
J

docjackson1

stirs, i hear you, but if i may, let me help you put things in perspective. you are a presumably healthy man who is lucky enough to drive a great car-be happy. don't ruminate about your percieved problems. you look awful petty to some poor bastard who is broke and/or dying of a terminal illness. be happy-your glass is half full. your world hasn't come to an end. don't dedicate your life to bringing down porsche. dedicate it to enjoying what you have.

Stirs

docjackson:

Thanks for putting things in perspective and I'm certainly not dedicating my life to bringing down Porcshe, PCNA will take care of that without my help. You should work for Porcshe's PR dept. -- be happy you are fortunate enough to buy our products and don't worry about how we treat you. Maybe to some, including many of my clients, dropping 65K on a SUV in no big deal, but to me it is a lot of money. After spending nearly $150K with a company in the last twelve months I guessed I expected better treatment. . .

Anir

docjackson1,

As a fellow doc, I hear what you're saying, but believe that you're missing the point. If Stirs comments strike you as "petty", may I say that your post comes across as condescending?

Someone who spends many years saving pennies to buy a Porsche deserves better - just like your patients deserve your best every time they come to visit you. This issue has nothing to do with misplaced priorities. DE events with my Porsche - and the friends I have made as a result - have enriched my life greatly. The poor dealership experiences have not.

Back to the topic at hand. Evidently, Porsche may not be the only company with excellent engineering that needs improvement in the dealer customer service arena. The following post is by Harry Metcalfe, the head honcho at the British mag "evo", in the June 2003 issue:

Fast Fleet, Audi RS6 Avant, evo, p. 156

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><strong>"It might be tempting fate, but with over 21,000 miles under its wheels, nothing has gone wrong with our RS6. Diddly squat, in fact. Something which was brought home to me when I booked it in for a service with Autohaus in Northampton the other week. The service receptionist asked if anything needed attention beyond the standard service items...

It's a shame then, that the quality of the service provided by Autohaus fell woefully short of the standards set by the build quality of our RS6. You'd think a day would be enough to complete a 20,000-mile service, but I'm afraid it didn't turn out like that, even though the RS6 was dropped off just before 9:00 am. We needed the car back the same day but as I still hadn't heard anything by 5:30 pm, I rang to find out what was happening. I was told that it could be ready for 5:50 pm but Autohaus would have to order the spark plugs and fuel filters because it didn't have any in stock. What on earth is the point of booking a car in for service a week in advance if they don't get the parts in to do the job?

No apology was offered and, just to wind me up further, I could only get the car back that night if I paid for service in full. Comapny policy, apparently, to demand full payment before releasing a car back to the customer. That'll be 284 British pounds, please, even though half the jobs hadn't been done.

Teh next day, Autohaus rang to say the parts were due and could we book the car back in. On arrival, the service receptionist got me to sign in advance for the work to be carried out. Plugs and fuel filter wre fair enough, but I put a line through front brake pad replacement as even Autohaus admitted there were a few thousand miles left in the old ones.

At 5:30 pm, the car was finally ready for collection. I was staggered to be preseneted with another bill, this time for 157 British pounds; turns out I hadn't paid for the eight spark plugs and fuel filter the previous day after all. That meant the service had cost a whopping 442 British pounds in total, an unacceptable amount for an oil and spark plug change in my view. Not from Autohaus's viewpoint though - its retort was 'what do you expect if you buy a car like that?' Well, some old-fashioned courtesy would be nice for a start, together with an apology for the inconvenience of having to arrange lifts for the two days it required the car. The labour charge didn't help either, and eye-watering 94 British pounds / hour, reduced to 73 British pounds / hour if your car is over three years old. I bet it's the same mechanics doing the work.

I was thoroughly disappointed with the whole episode. It's little wonder rival BMW's free service package is proving such a hit on its new cars. Audi should take note."</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">High-end car companies are kidding themselves if they think that this sort of negative publicity won't eventually come back to haunt them.

Stirs

Anir, thanks for reiterating the point of this thread. I am not interested in complaining and the fact of whether I have cancer or not is totally irrelevant. More than half of my clients are physicians and would not tolerate what I have from Porsche. I am 32 years old and always wanted to own a Porsche. Now that I have two I am completely dismayed at the attitude Porsche has towards its customers. What disappoints me is that I would love to own Porsche autos the rest of my life but will not spend hard earned dollars with a company that has no respect for me. My hope is that at some point Porsche Germany will have some positive impact on the way PCNA deals with its customers . . .maybe they will have to lose signficant market share before that happens.