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Old 06-08-2003, 01:18 PM
  #76  
Torags
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Anir:

"I've never sued anyone in my life, nor pursued legal action against any individual or organization, and I'd like to keep it that way."

Sometimes there is no other way.

After 170 days in the shop within one year, PCNA/PAG?, Gave back the money on one of the first Boxters. Only after a bad *** attorney made them do it.

In a perfect world, two reasonable gentlemen could get it done themselves.... Noooo longer.

BTW that's why lemon laws got passed. Manufacturers paid no attention to people parading outside dealerships with signs on lemons, etc. (Chrysler comes to mind)...
Old 06-08-2003, 01:33 PM
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Anir
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Torags,

Of course, you're right (unfortunately) - but PCNA could avoid this sort of mess and create a whole lot of goodwill in the process.
Old 06-08-2003, 02:25 PM
  #78  
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Enlightened dealers will....
Old 06-08-2003, 04:16 PM
  #79  
Doug H
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Stirs:

I am not blaming you in any way. The lemmon law stuff is very frusterating and you should not have to be in the position of having to invoke the lemmon law in the first place. The reality, however, is that lemmons will appear from time to time with all manufacturers. As an individual, I have had lemmon issues with both a vehicle and a boat and never filed a lawsuit. I was tempted.

Anir:

I have never sued where I was a named plaintiff. Demanding and pro-active example is like the trailer hitch issue. I told my dealer I take my boat to the lake house every weekend and that we had to get towing issues resolved within 2 weeks or they are taking the Cayenne back. I tried to be very nice and even apologetic about my position, but stern. The tow issues were resolved within 1 week.

I have sued in the capacity of an attorney/class counsel representing class members. That is how I make my real money. My "base" compensation if there is such a thing, is actually dervied from defending doctors, lawyers, accountants, nurses and other professionals with E/O coverage. I love defense work, but one cannot make 7 figures/year from defense work.

I am more opportunistic than litagous. I just settled, as class counsel, a 401(k) securities/pension fraud class action for $ 18,000,000.00 last month with final approval date of August 29, 2003. This is how I buy my toys and why I am buying the new 996 TT. 1/3 of $ 18,000,000 will buy some nice cars! A little to busy to pursue lemmon type of lawsuit for only 100k.
Old 06-08-2003, 08:10 PM
  #80  
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Doug H:
<strong>I am more opportunistic than litagous. I just settled, as class counsel, a 401(k) securities/pension fraud class action for $ 18,000,000.00 last month with final approval date of August 29, 2003. This is how I buy my toys and why I am buying the new 996 TT. 1/3 of $ 18,000,000 will buy some nice cars! A little to busy to pursue lemmon type of lawsuit for only 100k.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I'm starting to understand why your dealer treats you with kid gloves. I apologize for the following rant.

We can't solely blame attorneys for raping the system (I mean, being "opportunistic"). It's our collective fault, for allowing the creation of such a skewed, lottery-oriented legal system that rewards plaintiff's attorneys so disproportionately to defense attorneys. Does any attorney really need, or deserve, to keep 33% of a settlement? For heaven's sake, you can work one big case and then retire. The tort system is in dire need of a dose of common sense.

And people get angry that the average doc makes $180K after 10-15 years of school and 100-hour work weeks. Interesting phenomenon.

I honestly don't mean this as a personal attack. I know that tort laws have led to some good things for the American people, and I have nothing against attorneys. I seriously considered law school as an alternative to med school. I also understand that corporate abuses must be checked, and the legal system is an important part of the checks and balances.

I'm just deeply saddened by the state of affairs in our legal system, because it's raising the costs of doing business in every facet of American life - especially medicine. It's simple redistribution of limited resources into the hands of a few. Most importantly, it's making our country less competitive and attractive in the global arena. Need an example? There are some awesome medical products available in Europe that will likely never see the light of day in the U.S., because the manufacturers of these products do not want to expose themselves to potential liability issues in the U.S..

You seem to have found your peace with it. I just wish I could. Rant off. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />
Old 06-08-2003, 08:38 PM
  #81  
laurence '97 C4S
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Anir-
You should not apologize for your statement or feelings at all. The plaintiffs bar is one level up from... well the bottom.
Old 06-08-2003, 09:01 PM
  #82  
Doug H
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That's alright with me and no need to apoligize to me. Puts my kids through school and keep a Porsche in the driveway.

Just keep in mind, I am one of the good guys (defend doctors) as far as medical malpractice goes. I, however, would point out that the medical malpractice laws are weighed heavily in favor of the defense side (my side and your side). I win a very high percetage of my cases and my victories are not always solely predicated upon the doctor's or professonal's level of compentency. I win a lot of cases that I should not win, but I am good and that is why I make good money.

I see alot of scarey stuff happen to people, but they are still unable to win medical malpractice suits due to the heavy burdens placed on plaintiffs by medical malpractice legislation for doctors.

Now my recent 18 million dollar settlement merely got back to the class what the defendants were cuaght red-handed from stealing. Theft of peoples retirement funds doesn't pay post Enron.

Doctor's salaries: I have clients making 50k to 70k a month so I don't buy the doctors cannot make any money any more. But alas, its not my job to legislate. Its just my job to win cases and that is what I do.
Old 06-08-2003, 09:17 PM
  #83  
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Anir and Laurence, as an attorney who has been licensed since 1983 I could take offense to your remarks. Further, my wife and my best are friend are plaintiff's attorneys. But I can not be offended since you two are 100% correct. PI attorneys contribute nothing to our society and are in fact increasing the speed at which our society is decaying. I quit the practice of law in 1997 and will never return. To this day the way my best friend and wife earn their money sickens me. Yet they can find ways to rationalize their work. I always find time to ridicule them but like the bottom feeding snakes that they are, my insults amuse them.....The discussion regarding a board about dealers has merit how can we develop something like this?
Old 06-08-2003, 09:53 PM
  #84  
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Doug,

There are certainly some crummy docs out there, and I agree that organized medicine does a poor job of policing our own bad apples. I also agree that some docs make $500 - 600K per year, but they are a small minority. Did you know that the average pediatrician makes just over $100K/year? It's interesting that any career that has to do with caring for our most valuable resources (our children), whether it be teachers or docs, is poorly compensated for the time and energy it takes. Our collective priorities are pretty misplaced.

Honestly, I feel that a six-figure salary is appropriate for a professional, be it an attorney, or accountant, or physician. I'm just not sure that you deserve to keep a third of the money that belongs to the folks wronged in the 401K crime. How many victims were involved, and how much did each of them receive? Not $6 million, I'm sure. Wouldn't $200K, or even $500K, be adequate compensation? You'd still get rich in a hurry. BTW, I have to perform about 12,000 facial reconstructive surgeries to generate income of $6 million (aren't you glad you didn't choose medicine?).

Again, I hope this doesn't come across as a personal attack. You are the one who volunteered intimate details of your own case. I'm trying to speak to the problem in general.

Les,

If you don't mind me asking, what other career did you transition into? When I was deciding what to do with my B.S. in electrical / biomedical engineering, I desperately tried to talk myself into law. I mean - who wouldn't prefer 3 additional years of school to 9 yrs of school/internship/residency/fellowship, and the opportunity to clerk and make money in the second year of law school to going $150K into debt in med school? As much as I would have liked to have a second job in med school, it just wasn't feasible when working 90 - 120 hours per week and skipping a full night of sleep every third day. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

I finally decided (guessed?) that medicine would prove more personally rewarding for me. Fortunately, I am very happy with my decision, but I do think that law would be interesting - probably more in theory than its current practical daily application.
Old 06-08-2003, 11:11 PM
  #85  
Doug H
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You got to kiss a lot of frogs before you find a prince.
Old 06-09-2003, 09:13 AM
  #86  
Stirs
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Anir:

It sounds like you went into medicine for the right reasons. I am a practicing tax accountant and would have gone into trauma medicine were it not for the fact that I have had to support myself since age 17 and couldn't afford med school and living on my own. For me medicine would not be about the money but the satisfaction that comes with making a difference. Were I to win the lottery I would enroll in med school and head straight for trauma medicine -- long hours/little pay/great excitement. FYI: in my practice I refuse to accept any personal injury/malpractice lawyers as clients . . .as a group their practices do little to contribute to society and in fact are contributing to our stagnation in innovation relative to many other countries.
Old 06-09-2003, 11:35 AM
  #87  
Greg Fishman
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P-Car seller,
Just read this thread and besides WOW! I have a few comments.

I bought my 98 Carrera S directly from Blue Grass. My salesperson treated me very well and gave me a fair deal. I was 27 years old at the time and he did not treat me any differently (in my eyes) from a older or even repeat customer. Car was delivered perfectly etc.

The problems started with the service department. I had a horrible vibration in the front end. Took it to the dealer (70 miles away) and they tried to balance. On the drive home it returned, called the service manager and told him the problem and he said that he saw on the report from the tech that they couldn't remove the vibration. I said thanks for telling me, he said to bring the car in and he would get me new tires. I made an appt and drove up there and needless to say all he did was check the type of tire I had and ordered them. So I wasted a 140 mile round trip for them to look at my tires. When I asked for a loaner so I didn't have to put the miles on my car he said no.
I drove back up the next week and had the new tires installed. Back home I washed my car and low and behold they damaged both of my front wheels with their "$15K tire changing machine". Lee told me they would they would make it right. Again no loaner car. My car was on jackstands for 4 weeks while they tried to get the wheels re-finished. I get my car back and the wheels are damaged again. I put my foot down at this point and said they had to send me new rims. They did but tried to pull a fast one and send me the non-hollow spoke versions. I called them out and they finally, 2+ months later sent me the correct ones.

Do you think I ever went back there? HELL NO! If they can't do something as simple as balance a wheel and tire how could I trust them with something more involved. The horror stories that I have heard from others make my situation seem like kid's play.

"For our Customers, The ones who PURCHASE from us, We provide Porsche loaners on request, We've arranged(or offered)for service pick-up and delivery. Some customers are content to ride a shuttle, others arent."

Never was I offered a loaner car even though I bought a $75K car from them.

My grandfather did banking business with the owner and never bought a car from another Lincoln dealer in his life, and even a call to the owner's son meant nothing and did nothing to help with my problems.

I had a great salesperson and I would buy from him again but not from your dealership.

You maybe a great service to your customers but if your service dept. can't back you up with reasonable service what good does it do?
Old 06-09-2003, 12:13 PM
  #88  
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doug h, you just don't know what you are talking about. i also know docs that make 50-70k/month-about 1%. anir is correct-most docs make south of 250k/year, way south. to infer that tons of docs make the kind of money you speak of is irresponsible, and just plain incorrect. for most of us, our salaries decrease yearly while our patient loads and overhead (malpractice insurance) increase. to educate you, my malpractice insurance has gone up 50% in one year, and i have never been sued, in 23 years of practice. i know that this is not a medical forum, but blanket and incorrect statements like yours must be refuted. anir is right, most pediatricians hardly break 100k. who do you call at 3AM when your kid can't breath-the pediatrician or the junk bond sailsman?
Old 06-09-2003, 03:29 PM
  #89  
Doug H
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Docjackson:

whoa, cool the jets. I just said "I have doctor clients making 50k to 70K a month." Do not make too much out if it. It was in response to docs cannot make any money type of post. Incidentally, I am defending a large class action filed by docs against a local accoutning firm and I have the tax info on these doctors and their practices from a three state area. Most of these are considerably higher than 250k.

Don't screw up, run a tight ship, and you won't need a lawyer. You may not be able to avoid health issues, but you may be able to avoid having to pay a lawyer if you be careful. Regulate your fields and see to it that irresponsible doctors are unable to practice. That will keep your insurance down.

Stirs:

Becareful now, I represent accountants also . . . BTW, I don't discriminate, I will still take accountants as clients.

Guys:

Don't you all think its about enough. If I get good service from a dealer because I am a scumbag lawyer, so be it. Let's move on. Things got totally off track. So much animosity isn't healthy anway.
Old 06-09-2003, 04:11 PM
  #90  
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Doug H:

If I get good service from a dealer because I am a scumbag lawyer, so be it. Let's move on. Things got totally off track. So much animosity isn't healthy anway.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">LOL Doug. I know Im always extra careful in what I do or say, when my client is an attorney.....

Greg.....You havent been here in FIVE years? How do you KNOW our service sucks?(still) I didnt know 98 C2s came with hollow spokes....I thought they were Turbo LOOKS.

Peace
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