ozr

...let me comment on below statement, because I think it's a little too strong and OUT of balance and reality a little:

1. handling:
...actually, it's partially true, but ONLY partially for cars before 2007. Forget comparing regular non-sport packaged X5 to ANY Cayenne. Non-sport packaged x5 2003-2008) handles worse, will handle slalom worse and is SLOWER/less power potent on specific selected gear, than regular Cayenne. Sport packaged x5 or x5 4.6/4.8is (before 2007), also sport packaged x5 2007/08 DOES handle just a little better slalom (more tight, driver feels less centrifugal forces=>"BMW adaptive drive at work..." ) and just comes closer in power on selected gear, than regular or air suspension Cayenne 2004-2008 (WITHOUT PDCC, as it was introduced for 2008 cars...) (dont forget WEIGHT difference!!!...earlier X5s were lighter, than ANY Cayennes, now they are the same for 2008 ...) In that scenario regular or air suspension Cayenne feels a little more LOOSE, less tight, just a little more body roll.

Also let me mention, that we are comparing apples with oranges... X5s and Cayennes have DIFFERENT driving dynamics/physics balance between front and the rear.

When you drive sport packaged x5(2003-2008) or x5 4.6/4.8is (before 2007) you still feel like you are riding in a "truck", sitting high in a driver seat (center of car gravity is higher, car balance between front and the rear is in the middle...)

When you are driving ANY regular Cayenne 2004-2008, you feel like you are driving in a CAR, but not a truck. Cayenne center of gravity is lower, car balance between front and the rear is in the rear 40/60%split. You feel the SAME "rear driving balance" like in any Carrera ("loose playing" front and strong tight rear balance...

...but for 2008 there is a PDCC=flat driving dynamics in slalom, MUCH superior to BMW sport or "adaptive drive" suspension implementation, NO BODY ROLL, FLAT, like Carrera4S ...

...so your above statement about handling was a little too strong, too overgeneralizing and unprecise...

2. sport mode:

In Cayenne or Carrera sport mode programming is fully engaged, when you press PSM OFF (in BMW vocabulary turn traction control off... ), any PORSCHEenthusiast knows that. It produces MAJOR driving/power/sport handling difference (like about 30-40% difference with regular mode). In 2008 they put the "Sport button" for the drivers coming from Audi, BMW worlds. This button does not do much more different things, than just "PSM OFF" button in 2004-2006 and 2008 Cayennes...

In BMW including x5 4.6/4.8is (before 2007) or sport packaged 2007/08 x5
sport mode (DSC off, sport trany program selection) produces LESS driving/power difference (like about 15% at the most with regular mode...)

...that mode in ANY regular 2004-2008 Cayenne is MUCH more raw...

...so your above statement about sport mode is "out of balance"...

I love and drive BMWs, the best they offer, but I also drive PORSCHES, and when you'll get yourself deeply involved with PORSCHES, you'll notice, that there IS A GAP between how close best BMW comes to ANY PORSCHE. PORSCHE AG constantly maintains and WILL maintain such a GAP. Cayennes ARE PORSCHES, not VWs (like some want you to know...). They drive/balance like ALL PORSCHES...

...there is NO substitute...


OZRacing

ozr

...if I were at your place, I would buy any 2008 Cayenne with PDCC, for example, CayenneTT08 500hp on paper, but not CayenneTTS (before2007).

...PDCC makes A LOT of sense/difference, CayTT08500hp on paper ACTUALLY are more hp in real life, than CayTTS520hp on paper...

...Why?,...the answer is: VarioCamPlus starting in 2008 Cay V8 engines and VTG (Variable Turbine Geometry) features in 2008 CayTT engines...


OZRacing

GBG

OZR, can you elaborate?

Thanks

ozr

...for a good demonstration of the VarioCamPlus watch the 1st movie here:
http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/ca...y/?gtabindex=6

or read here:

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/ca...ndetail/drive/

for a demonstration of the VTG principles watch the 3rd movie here:

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/91...y/?gtabindex=5

or read here:

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/91...ndetail/drive/

...2008 CayenneTT includes not all but SOME features from the original CarreraTT08 VTG design...

...to summarize the advantages of the above two systems - they VARY power stream!!! for the 2008 V8 engine with and without turbo...

When MORE power is necessary instantaneously, they provide it on demand immediately, creating two engines out of one- "expanding one engine into two". When NO more power is needed and car is slowing into the more economical driving, "two engines contract back into ONE" to conserve power, gas resources...

...for the 2008 CayenneTT, they selected the lower MAX hp figure 500hp, than CayTTS 520hp for their model lineup prestige reasons and to fool dumb American driving public...

...BUT having a little lower peak/MAX hp number 2008 CayenneTT has FLATTER power delivery graph in middle RPM range and the rest of the power distribution segments. ALSO!!! this flatter power delivery segment in 08 CayTT is noticably WIDER, than in CayTTS. The result - in REAL life situations driving in MID range at 40-60 and 60-90 mi/h 2008 CayenneTT is quicker, than CayTTS by design...

...there are other successful cars, which use the SAME basic principle: 07 BMW 335 coupe, 08 BMW M3...

...regarding new M3, for example, M3 has MAX hp figure 420hp LESS than competition MB C63 457hp, BUT ... ... expect M3 to be quicker in real life on 0-60, 40-60, 60-90, 0-150 mi/h... because of the same principle described above - "more hp power on demand in the MID range and wider power segment available..."


OZRacing

GDF-TT

OZR, I think you got a little too intense on this subject. I was specifically speaking about my 4.6is, not any other X5 non-sport this that or the other. I am also specifically speaking about an '06 CTTS not any other model or year. The 4.6is does not feel like a truck, it drives like a 5 series with little to no body roll. The CTTS rolls quite a bit, although with the 22's and more aggresive tires, it seems to handle a bit better. I love my CTTS and I am happy I have it. Porsches are great, that is why I have two of them. If I had to do it again, I would have probably kept my X5 4.6is, it was a fantastic vehicle. ..................

leek

I bought a 08 CTT, the BMW was a distant 2nd. Nice vehicle but not close, in either price or performance. The 08 CTT handles quite a bit better than the previous Cayenne models that I drove. The BMW (and the Audi, and the Lexus) all had better electronics. I added bluetooth capability for $500 and ipod interfact for $500, but it still not as good as the other brands.
Car has been flawless through first 7000 miles including pulling #6000 boat over mountain passes.

OldGuy

thats just a plainly wrong statement. I have tried and tried to talk myself into a Cayenne and now a Cayenne GTS coming from my 06 4.8is. The cayenne is uglier and the only GAP is between the
BMW (better) and the cayenne (worse). When my (Porsche)dealer comes up to me and tells me
NOT to buy a Cayenne and stick with the 4.8is its a better vehicle that tells me alot.
Its the same thing alot of my own Porsche enthusiasts tell me as well as many on this very board.
BMW makes no car in the class of the Porsche GT cars but in the SAV/SUV segment Porsche missed the boat.

MadFox

Toe-mah-toe - Too-mate-oh ... Old Guy, YOU have every right to your opinion... but, this forum definitely likes provacators!! UGLY?? Like a Pig? But a Bimmer is less of a PIG?? It wishes it was a PIG.. it's a jelly-bean HIPPO!! ... OldGuy put your reading glasses lower on your nose.. and LOOK AGAIN..

and YES, I drove a '06 4.8is after having a Beta before I bought my '06 Tit.S (flawless to date) and the BMW does NOT drive like a Porsche does either.. okay.. this is for the WOR thread monitors... AND -- frankly, any BMW SUV ---- is a woman's car!

FORE!

leek

I tried for six months not to buy the Cayenne, I was having a tough time with the expense. Your 06 BMW is a nice car and probably a better car for the price but there is no way you can compare it to the 500 hp Ctt with air suspension and the new anti roll technology. I drove both and they did not compare in terms of response to throttle, handling, sway, rear loading height, towing capacity (7700#) or uniqueness. My wife drives a 5 series and I think they make a great car but these Suv's are not comparable. If you want to Compare the mid line Cayenne S with the BMW you might get a little closer.

MadFox

and take that too! well.. except the mid-line comment! Next?


FORE!

EnigmaWmn

I came from a 5 series that I LOVED! Test drove the X5 before getting a CS and I have to agree with ozr - there's no comparison. Btw, to date, I've smoked EVERY 4.8 that raced with me. But they probably had cell-phone-yapping-double-wide-assed (shout out to Larry) soccer moms behind the wheel. No, wait, I distinctly remember dudes driving them. How, you ask, I remember? It's the look of disbelief on their face, which is impossible to forget, when they see that they've been owned by a Cayenne, um, a girl. Total Status Kill*






*https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topic/389603-status-kill-stories.html

JRCTT

[QUOTE=EnigmaWmn;4757977]I came from a 5 series that I LOVED! Test drove the X5 before getting a CS and I have to agree with ozr - there's no comparison. Btw, to date, I've smoked EVERY 4.8 that raced with me. But they probably had cell-phone-yapping-double-wide-assed (shout out to Larry) soccer moms behind the wheel. No, wait, I distinctly remember dudes driving them. How, you ask, I remember? It's the look of disbelief on their face, which is impossible to forget, when they see that they've been owned by a Cayenne, um, a girl. Total Status Kill*

NICE!!! Now we are talking...total status Kill

OldGuy

THis is what humorous about this stuff. You guys can talk about the X5 3.0 or the 4.4 or the 4.8i
I am talking about the 4.8is It looks alot different MadFox than the run of the mill X5. I agree with you
that the X5 3.0 looks femnine but the X5 4.8is has 315 30's on the rear with 20" rims it looks VERY masculine relatively.
Enigma woman You have obviously not raced a 4.8is it has 20 more HP than a 06 Cayenne Titanium S and is a FULL second faster from 0-60. So you guys go do some homework look at the 4.8is and you wil become educated. Having owned a 993TT a 996 GT3 a now my beloved 997 GT3 I KNOW my handling(heck even the wife drives a Z4"M") and even the CTT does not handle as well as a BMW 4.8is. The 4.8is was supposed to be the X5 M version but BMW execs were loathe to put the M badge on a SUV. You guy DO KNOW what the M versions of BMW are dont you?? It doesnt sound like it.
And Yes Mad the X5 4.8 is IS more handsome than the Cayenne
Again when your own PORSCHE DEALER tells you the BMW 4.8is is better than any Cayenne that says alot!!!!

Leek again the 4.8is was supposed to be a M version of the X5 it has Air suspension too and still handles better than the CTT But like Mad and Enigma woman you havent driven a 4.8is either
its light years ahead of any "S" and for the money makes the CTT look like a huge waste of money

I REALLY wish you guys would go drive all the vehicles we have talked about instead of using the weak
"my wife had a 5 series and........."

I am not trying to get a rise out of you. I WANT the Porsche SUV- they just dont make a Porsche that measures up
to the 4.8is. I could have any Cayenne I want but there isnt one I want, or one that my OWN PORSCHE DEALER can recommend!!!!!! I DO want that Porsche badge next to my
BMW and it irks me that Porsche has to price their Cayenne TT at $120K and its not as good as the $70K
2006 X5 4.8is.

EnigmaWmn

No idea, can you please edumukate the benighted ones? :-D

EnigmaWmn

P.S. I'd like to go on record, once again, and say that X5 is a status kill, yo! That includes the 4.8is, yup. Sorry, OldDude :-D