Cayenne Turbo in for laundry list of service items
12-01-2004, 11:28 AM
#31
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I find that same hesitation after my wife drives for a while. Kind of like a limp noddle feeling when stepping on the gas. Although I don't see it as a fault just an automatic economy mode. My wife being a rather conservative driver compared to me, likes the car in the fuel economy mode. She feels the CT is to fast for her after I drive it and prefers it in slug mode. 
I find that by just one or two stomps on the accelerator peddle and it is back to normal. It may just be the system going into economy mode but I could be wrong. I have always been an aggressive driver and find that after the first hard push the car to be rather responsive compared to any other high end SUV I have driven.
You may try the once hard when starting approach to smooth out the problem for you.
I find that by just one or two stomps on the accelerator peddle and it is back to normal. It may just be the system going into economy mode but I could be wrong. I have always been an aggressive driver and find that after the first hard push the car to be rather responsive compared to any other high end SUV I have driven.You may try the once hard when starting approach to smooth out the problem for you.
12-01-2004, 11:40 AM
#32
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Originally Posted by cobalt
I find that by just one or two stomps on the accelerator peddle and it is back to normal..
You may try the once hard when starting approach to smooth out the problem for you.
You may try the once hard when starting approach to smooth out the problem for you.
12-01-2004, 12:11 PM
#33
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Sounds like you need to check the DME possible software upgrade, vacuum leak, pressure sensor or more likely the electric frequency valve for proper duty cycle. If these have already been checked, I would address it directly to PCNA and threaten Lemon law. I know of several CT owners that have not had any problems and experience the operation to be identical as I have described. I would assume one of the devices is not working properly and is always telling the DME that you are in fuel economy mode. Unfortunately with the way cars are built today all the mechanic knows how to do is plug into the computer and read fault codes. A step by step evaluation of each component is to costly and beyond their thought process. It may be time to try a new dealership. Although these guys may be polite and attentive it does not mean they are knowledgeable and creative.
Good Luck
Good Luck
12-01-2004, 12:44 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by cobalt
Sounds like you need to check the DME possible software upgrade, vacuum leak, pressure sensor or more likely the electric frequency valve for proper duty cycle. If these have already been checked, I would address it directly to PCNA and threaten Lemon law. I know of several CT owners that have not had any problems and experience the operation to be identical as I have described. I would assume one of the devices is not working properly and is always telling the DME that you are in fuel economy mode. Unfortunately with the way cars are built today all the mechanic knows how to do is plug into the computer and read fault codes. A step by step evaluation of each component is to costly and beyond their thought process. It may be time to try a new dealership. Although these guys may be polite and attentive it does not mean they are knowledgeable and creative.
Good Luck
Good Luck
12-01-2004, 01:24 PM
#35
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I understand why the cynicism now. You have had even worse luck then I have.
Unfortunately it sounds like you need a third dealership. The lag issue has to be within one of the modules and shouldn't be that difficult to fix. I find that most of these dealerships feel they are the experts and we are all clueless. Yet none of them are willing to look beyond the fault codes to figure out if all that the brain relys on is working properly. The day of the old time mechanic (expert) is gone and with all of these new fangled contraptions they need to look beyond the tip of their noses to really find the root cause to these obscure problems. (no money in doing that) Unfortunately Porsche must rely on the feedback from the dealerships to be able to narrow down the problem and address it in a TSB. The fact is most mechanics don't have a clue if the vehicle is running correctly unless a fault code tells them it isn't. In the process they just return the car to you and say they did everything they could. (a big waste of your time) This info never gets back to Porsche and therefore the problem goes on until someone actually addresses it. If I were you I would put it all down in writing and send it off to PCNA.
This is very similar to a problem I had with a Dodge product. The computer kept saying everything was OK.They made an adjustment (?) or replaced an unrelated component under warrantee and return the truck to me. In fact a sensor was out of calibration from the factory sending false info to the brain and causing the knocking that continually persisted. After 5 dealerships I gave up and started changing sensors only to find I was correct about the problem. The funny thing was that once I resolved the issue of the bad sensor it had to go back to undo everything that was previously done. All they kept on doing was making adjustments and in fact throwing the working components out of spec only making it worse. So in retrospect the brain was saying everything was OK because it was relying on a bad sensor to determine operating parameters without a way to diagnose the actual problem. This was way beyond the scope of the so called mechanics/experts I argued with. In the end they just claimed there was no way for them to determine that this was an issue. So much for modern technology, it is only as good as the flawed humans working on it.
Unfortunately it sounds like you need a third dealership. The lag issue has to be within one of the modules and shouldn't be that difficult to fix. I find that most of these dealerships feel they are the experts and we are all clueless. Yet none of them are willing to look beyond the fault codes to figure out if all that the brain relys on is working properly. The day of the old time mechanic (expert) is gone and with all of these new fangled contraptions they need to look beyond the tip of their noses to really find the root cause to these obscure problems. (no money in doing that) Unfortunately Porsche must rely on the feedback from the dealerships to be able to narrow down the problem and address it in a TSB. The fact is most mechanics don't have a clue if the vehicle is running correctly unless a fault code tells them it isn't. In the process they just return the car to you and say they did everything they could. (a big waste of your time) This info never gets back to Porsche and therefore the problem goes on until someone actually addresses it. If I were you I would put it all down in writing and send it off to PCNA.
This is very similar to a problem I had with a Dodge product. The computer kept saying everything was OK.They made an adjustment (?) or replaced an unrelated component under warrantee and return the truck to me. In fact a sensor was out of calibration from the factory sending false info to the brain and causing the knocking that continually persisted. After 5 dealerships I gave up and started changing sensors only to find I was correct about the problem. The funny thing was that once I resolved the issue of the bad sensor it had to go back to undo everything that was previously done. All they kept on doing was making adjustments and in fact throwing the working components out of spec only making it worse. So in retrospect the brain was saying everything was OK because it was relying on a bad sensor to determine operating parameters without a way to diagnose the actual problem. This was way beyond the scope of the so called mechanics/experts I argued with. In the end they just claimed there was no way for them to determine that this was an issue. So much for modern technology, it is only as good as the flawed humans working on it.
12-01-2004, 02:30 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by cobalt
I understand why the cynicism now. You have had even worse luck then I have.
Unfortunately it sounds like you need a third dealership. The lag issue has to be within one of the modules and shouldn't be that difficult to fix. I find that most of these dealerships feel they are the experts and we are all clueless. Yet none of them are willing to look beyond the fault codes to figure out if all that the brain relys on is working properly. The day of the old time mechanic (expert) is gone and with all of these new fangled contraptions they need to look beyond the tip of their noses to really find the root cause to these obscure problems. (no money in doing that) Unfortunately Porsche must rely on the feedback from the dealerships to be able to narrow down the problem and address it in a TSB. The fact is most mechanics don't have a clue if the vehicle is running correctly unless a fault code tells them it isn't. In the process they just return the car to you and say they did everything they could. (a big waste of your time) This info never gets back to Porsche and therefore the problem goes on until someone actually addresses it. If I were you I would put it all down in writing and send it off to PCNA.
This is very similar to a problem I had with a Dodge product. The computer kept saying everything was OK.They made an adjustment (?) or replaced an unrelated component under warrantee and return the truck to me. In fact a sensor was out of calibration from the factory sending false info to the brain and causing the knocking that continually persisted. After 5 dealerships I gave up and started changing sensors only to find I was correct about the problem. The funny thing was that once I resolved the issue of the bad sensor it had to go back to undo everything that was previously done. All they kept on doing was making adjustments and in fact throwing the working components out of spec only making it worse. So in retrospect the brain was saying everything was OK because it was relying on a bad sensor to determine operating parameters without a way to diagnose the actual problem. This was way beyond the scope of the so called mechanics/experts I argued with. In the end they just claimed there was no way for them to determine that this was an issue. So much for modern technology, it is only as good as the flawed humans working on it.
Unfortunately it sounds like you need a third dealership. The lag issue has to be within one of the modules and shouldn't be that difficult to fix. I find that most of these dealerships feel they are the experts and we are all clueless. Yet none of them are willing to look beyond the fault codes to figure out if all that the brain relys on is working properly. The day of the old time mechanic (expert) is gone and with all of these new fangled contraptions they need to look beyond the tip of their noses to really find the root cause to these obscure problems. (no money in doing that) Unfortunately Porsche must rely on the feedback from the dealerships to be able to narrow down the problem and address it in a TSB. The fact is most mechanics don't have a clue if the vehicle is running correctly unless a fault code tells them it isn't. In the process they just return the car to you and say they did everything they could. (a big waste of your time) This info never gets back to Porsche and therefore the problem goes on until someone actually addresses it. If I were you I would put it all down in writing and send it off to PCNA.
This is very similar to a problem I had with a Dodge product. The computer kept saying everything was OK.They made an adjustment (?) or replaced an unrelated component under warrantee and return the truck to me. In fact a sensor was out of calibration from the factory sending false info to the brain and causing the knocking that continually persisted. After 5 dealerships I gave up and started changing sensors only to find I was correct about the problem. The funny thing was that once I resolved the issue of the bad sensor it had to go back to undo everything that was previously done. All they kept on doing was making adjustments and in fact throwing the working components out of spec only making it worse. So in retrospect the brain was saying everything was OK because it was relying on a bad sensor to determine operating parameters without a way to diagnose the actual problem. This was way beyond the scope of the so called mechanics/experts I argued with. In the end they just claimed there was no way for them to determine that this was an issue. So much for modern technology, it is only as good as the flawed humans working on it.
12-01-2004, 04:22 PM
#37
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There is a common theme that runs through a lot of these types of posts. The dealer does not want to ask PCNA for help and yet when you go directly to PCNA,(while the dealer may be upset by this) the fixes start to appear.
Thats the only thing to do now, call PCNA and talk to customer support, lay it on gently and make sure the safety issue is made clear for the hesitation problem.
My bet is things will start to happen.
Make sure you have the name of the head tech at the dealer handy,they will ask for that.
Try to be calm but firm and friendly. I dont think 'pissed off' works with them.
Thats the only thing to do now, call PCNA and talk to customer support, lay it on gently and make sure the safety issue is made clear for the hesitation problem.
My bet is things will start to happen.
Make sure you have the name of the head tech at the dealer handy,they will ask for that.
Try to be calm but firm and friendly. I dont think 'pissed off' works with them.
12-01-2004, 07:04 PM
#38
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How about two things to do?
Originally Posted by mudman2
Thats the only thing to do now, call PCNA and talk to customer support, lay it on gently and make sure the safety issue is made clear for the hesitation problem.
From what I've heard Porsche contends that they have been very few customer complaints about this issue. If people aren't willing to contact PCNA _and_ file complaints with the NHTSA maybe the dealers, PCNA and Porsche are right. Maybe we're a bunch of outliers and the problem really isn't that bad.
Why did I stick the NHTSA in there? While I agree that people should approach PCNA, I don't feel like PCNA is the complete answer. They seem to be blocking, covering, or as caught in the middle as much as the dealers are. From my standpoint, it looks like it's past time for us to try and get this some exposure outside of the 'family'.
I've pressed dealers and PCNA on the unsafe response my Cayenne has to accelerator pedal inputs even after the latest updates. My last call to PCNA on the matter got me a "Dear John" letter from my Regional Service Manager stating that my CT is "operating well within Porsche specifications" and that there are "no defects in material or workmanship".
While my letter is nicer than the "Characteristic Vibration" letter that Pcar Squared got, it is still reads like a kiss off letter.
In the letter PCNA points me at a "alternative dispute resolution" third party group that only appears to be contactable via a voice mail box or an answering service.
I left a voice mail for my Regional Service Manager to have him clarify that PCNA/Porsche is refusing to pursue my accelerator pedal response safety concerns. It's been over two weeks now and I haven't heard back from my RSM via the phone or mail.
12-01-2004, 07:41 PM
#39
I am going to agree with Bancu on this,
The problem I have was not cornering issues or anything, 35mph need to accelerate up to 45 and full boost in 5th gear, felt like an eternity.....adding that the pedal was nearly floored.
I had the update done but have not driven it since as I have been away.
My dealer has been great and I would not know why they would be upset if I went to PCNA and asked Porsche for a fix on this issue. This is not my dealers problem but Porsche AG problem.
It should be a very simple fix so we will see if the w516 helped our car any.
I can't go as far as saying our car is unsafe but not acceptable, doesn't feel right.
Bancu, what year is your Cayenne Turbo?
Cobalt, I think you are dead on, the main driver of the car didn't race it but has a very spirited driving style. When I drive it after my mother, it feels like the PSM was off LOL! She does not have a problem with it .
I guess I am not a firm believer in Adaptation software, but I wouldn't trade the car for anything on the market in its class.
The problem I have was not cornering issues or anything, 35mph need to accelerate up to 45 and full boost in 5th gear, felt like an eternity.....adding that the pedal was nearly floored.
I had the update done but have not driven it since as I have been away.
My dealer has been great and I would not know why they would be upset if I went to PCNA and asked Porsche for a fix on this issue. This is not my dealers problem but Porsche AG problem.
It should be a very simple fix so we will see if the w516 helped our car any.
I can't go as far as saying our car is unsafe but not acceptable, doesn't feel right.
Bancu, what year is your Cayenne Turbo?
Cobalt, I think you are dead on, the main driver of the car didn't race it but has a very spirited driving style. When I drive it after my mother, it feels like the PSM was off LOL! She does not have a problem with it .
I guess I am not a firm believer in Adaptation software, but I wouldn't trade the car for anything on the market in its class.
12-01-2004, 09:18 PM
#40
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Vino, your Mother has got to be a hoot.
I've been driving on the updated transmission module and W516 for over a month. You're dead on about the straight line stuff being a problem. I see it as unsafe because the vehicle does not react consistently like other automatics I drive.
The city turns are also still a problem for me.
I don't want to get rid of my CT either but PCNA/Porsche AG's arrogance and anti customer behavior is really getting to me. Given that I work with computer vendors all the time that's a pretty strong statement.
My vehicle details are:
VIN: WP1AC29P14L...see my NHTSA reports: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...aintsearch.cfm
Transmission Control Unit: 955-618-021-03 (swapped in on 23-Sep-04)
Model: Cayenne Turbo
Model Year: 2004
Production Date: 06-May-03
I've been driving on the updated transmission module and W516 for over a month. You're dead on about the straight line stuff being a problem. I see it as unsafe because the vehicle does not react consistently like other automatics I drive.
The city turns are also still a problem for me.
I don't want to get rid of my CT either but PCNA/Porsche AG's arrogance and anti customer behavior is really getting to me. Given that I work with computer vendors all the time that's a pretty strong statement.
My vehicle details are:
VIN: WP1AC29P14L...see my NHTSA reports: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/pr...aintsearch.cfm
Transmission Control Unit: 955-618-021-03 (swapped in on 23-Sep-04)
Model: Cayenne Turbo
Model Year: 2004
Production Date: 06-May-03
Last edited by bancu; 12-02-2004 at 07:38 AM.
12-01-2004, 09:54 PM
#41
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You guys just need to find a dealer who is willing to fix your problem. Mine has worked with PCNA on many of my issues -- particularly the hesitation one before the recall and fixed it by reprogramming the transmission shift points. I have a 03/03 built 04CT, so I've had the lurch and hesitation issues. The lurch was fixed about a year ago, and the hesitation was fixed last June. Now the transmission is in the right gear at the right time, and responds very quickly, just like it should. There is no reason why yours can't be the same, and as the Mudman says, don't **** anyone off. I guarantee you will be a very happy camper once you get this fixed, so get it done. We are lucky that there's lots of software in this vehicle, so that problems can be fixed, because no car company is going to keep replacing modules as they reserve the right to change spec's at any time.
12-01-2004, 10:11 PM
#42
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The variables are what make it so confusing and frustrating Phil. I've driven a PCNA Field Technical Manager in my vehicle. After the ride along, he ordered the updated transmission control module and my dealer put it in, did a DME flash and throttle adaptation.
When I told Customer Commitment that this did _not_ address all the issues I'm encountering, I got the "Dear John" letter from my Regional Service Manager. Which, after talking with Customer Commitment late today, is the final word. The only option I have is "alternative dispute resolution" even for the fact that the RSM has not returned my voice mail on the matter in over two weeks.
When I told Customer Commitment that this did _not_ address all the issues I'm encountering, I got the "Dear John" letter from my Regional Service Manager. Which, after talking with Customer Commitment late today, is the final word. The only option I have is "alternative dispute resolution" even for the fact that the RSM has not returned my voice mail on the matter in over two weeks.
Last edited by bancu; 12-02-2004 at 12:30 PM.
12-01-2004, 11:40 PM
#43
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After reprogramming my Jul 03 build "S", the hesitation is gone since Apr 04. I requested that adaptive driving be disabled (don't know if it was). I don't have hesitation (city driving 90% - 20K miles so far). But on sharp city corners I do have a pause, but I think it might be PSM. With V rated tires on AWD I don't think you break traction easily, so I expect it (inertia of 5000lb+).......
It's unfortunate some have these problems, I feel guilty I haven't any - I'm real pleased.
It's unfortunate some have these problems, I feel guilty I haven't any - I'm real pleased.
12-02-2004, 12:27 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by philg3
You guys just need to find a dealer who is willing to fix your problem. Mine has worked with PCNA on many of my issues -- particularly the hesitation one before the recall and fixed it by reprogramming the transmission shift points. I have a 03/03 built 04CT, so I've had the lurch and hesitation issues. The lurch was fixed about a year ago, and the hesitation was fixed last June. Now the transmission is in the right gear at the right time, and responds very quickly, just like it should. There is no reason why yours can't be the same, and as the Mudman says, don't **** anyone off. I guarantee you will be a very happy camper once you get this fixed, so get it done. We are lucky that there's lots of software in this vehicle, so that problems can be fixed, because no car company is going to keep replacing modules as they reserve the right to change spec's at any time.
12-02-2004, 01:17 PM
#45
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Originally Posted by ben in lj
There are only two dealers within like 70 miles. Mine just did the W516 (or whatever the number it is) to no avail. A buddy of mine has had his into the other dealer like 4 times and still has no fix.
Have you and your buddy taken the 5 to 10 minutes to call PCNA Customer Commitment (800.767.7243 ext. 3) and express your concern about the hesitation issue?
On top of calling PCNA, have you both taken 6 minutes to file an on-line report with the NHTSA (http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq) about your safety concerns?
As much as I feel like this is beyond being a switching dealer thing, it's also way beyond people spending energy bringing their vehicle in and posting on the Internet without at least investing the time to call PCNA and file a NHTSA report.