Porsche Cell Solution For Cayenne
04-03-2004, 11:24 PM
#32
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The Porsche telephone hardware is different, depending upon the vehicle audio system.
On vehicles with the PCM2, the telephone electronics module sits under the passenger seat and the audio is transferred by the MOST network. That is, the hands-free cabin microphone, in the roof console, interfaces to the PCM2, which digitizes the vehicle voice data to send to the telephone module via MOST. The remote voice data is digitized in the telephone module which sends it via MOST to the PCM2. This telephone system is available in Europe, but not the US.
The non-PCM2 audio system also has MOST, but the telephone uses directly connected analog signals for the voice. That is, the remote voice data and the mute signal, are direct analog connections to the back of the receiver. The cabin microphone is not a part of the audio system and only connects to the telephone system.
It has been reported and shown that the mute input, on the PCM2, when properly driven, functions as intended, even though the factory telephone system does not use this input. It has been reported that, when the external mute is activated, that remote voice audio sent to the external input pins is not passed through the PCM2 to the speakers in the vehicle.
So, given all this and the statement in the two-page informational brochure, the system that will be available soon in the US is one that will work only with non-PCM2 vehicles by connecting the remote voice data directly to the back of the that receiver.
It appears that Porsche designed the PCM2 in a way the prohibits and prevents deviation from factory configuration. This applies not only to the telephone, but also to those adding satellite radio and portable audio.
On vehicles with the PCM2, the telephone electronics module sits under the passenger seat and the audio is transferred by the MOST network. That is, the hands-free cabin microphone, in the roof console, interfaces to the PCM2, which digitizes the vehicle voice data to send to the telephone module via MOST. The remote voice data is digitized in the telephone module which sends it via MOST to the PCM2. This telephone system is available in Europe, but not the US.
The non-PCM2 audio system also has MOST, but the telephone uses directly connected analog signals for the voice. That is, the remote voice data and the mute signal, are direct analog connections to the back of the receiver. The cabin microphone is not a part of the audio system and only connects to the telephone system.
It has been reported and shown that the mute input, on the PCM2, when properly driven, functions as intended, even though the factory telephone system does not use this input. It has been reported that, when the external mute is activated, that remote voice audio sent to the external input pins is not passed through the PCM2 to the speakers in the vehicle.
So, given all this and the statement in the two-page informational brochure, the system that will be available soon in the US is one that will work only with non-PCM2 vehicles by connecting the remote voice data directly to the back of the that receiver.
It appears that Porsche designed the PCM2 in a way the prohibits and prevents deviation from factory configuration. This applies not only to the telephone, but also to those adding satellite radio and portable audio.
04-04-2004, 12:12 AM
#33
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Sorry to disappoint, but the microphone is part of the audio system, its used by the Bose audiopilot function.
The only input to the Bose (speaker amps) on both PCMII and non PCMII is on the MOST digital net.
I think your conclusions are based on bad assumptions. Still potentially correct but unlikely based on my dealers input.
The only input to the Bose (speaker amps) on both PCMII and non PCMII is on the MOST digital net.
I think your conclusions are based on bad assumptions. Still potentially correct but unlikely based on my dealers input.
04-04-2004, 12:34 AM
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I was at my dealer earlier today and was told that it does work with all PCM 2 units and the earlier PCM units as well, back to sometime in 2001. Price was to be in the neighborhood of $400. I don't know if that is installed or not.
04-04-2004, 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by mudman2
Sorry to disappoint, but the microphone is part of the audio system, its used by the Bose audiopilot function.
Sorry to disappoint, but the microphone is part of the audio system, its used by the Bose audiopilot function.
Originally posted by mudman2
The only input to the Bose (speaker amps) on both PCMII and non PCMII is on the MOST digital net.
I think your conclusions are based on bad assumptions. Still potentially correct but unlikely based on my dealers input.
The only input to the Bose (speaker amps) on both PCMII and non PCMII is on the MOST digital net.
I think your conclusions are based on bad assumptions. Still potentially correct but unlikely based on my dealers input.
Originally posted by GM Austin
I was at my dealer earlier today and was told that it does work with all PCM 2 units and the earlier PCM units as well, back to sometime in 2001.
I was at my dealer earlier today and was told that it does work with all PCM 2 units and the earlier PCM units as well, back to sometime in 2001.
04-04-2004, 10:47 AM
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If true, that would be terrific. This appears to conflict with the information posted by KY_soldier.
We have one pessimistic interpretation that concludes the phone is incompatible with any Cayenne PCM unit. That conclusion though is in conflict with the body of the text. Maybe the footnote means the phone is incompatible with European PCM units, since they have a different phone option there. For myself, I am concluding that the footnote is poorly written and misleading and I am fully prepared to stand behind that statement.
04-04-2004, 01:07 PM
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PCM 2 Phone
It looks like the unit comes from Cullmann and they do have a MOST solution. http://www.cullmann.de/htmleng/linefit/references.htm
http://cullmann.de/htmleng/linefit/h..._third_gen.htm
Audi phones systems also come from Cullmann, and they list Porsche as a reference. The new Cayenne order guides and the service manuals do show a $150 module under the front seat that is VDA compatible. VDA is a system that most German car manufactures have agreed to use for implementing third-party cell phones.
http://www.cullmann.de/pdf/Bedienung...tion_cable.pdf
I am also just speculating, but I remember seeing pictures of the Cullmann MOST module somewhere; however, I cannot find it now. My best guess is that the phone system will integrate with the MOST system for muting the PCM 2 and for sound through the speakers; however, not allow dialing through the PCM 2 buttons, but maybe voice dialing through the mic, if your phone supports it.
There is another rumor that Porsche is going to offer a Bluetooth connection to the PCM 2. Here is another company working on the Bluetooth connection to MOST. http://www.stollmann.de/doku/desg/most.pdf
http://cullmann.de/htmleng/linefit/h..._third_gen.htm
Audi phones systems also come from Cullmann, and they list Porsche as a reference. The new Cayenne order guides and the service manuals do show a $150 module under the front seat that is VDA compatible. VDA is a system that most German car manufactures have agreed to use for implementing third-party cell phones.
http://www.cullmann.de/pdf/Bedienung...tion_cable.pdf
I am also just speculating, but I remember seeing pictures of the Cullmann MOST module somewhere; however, I cannot find it now. My best guess is that the phone system will integrate with the MOST system for muting the PCM 2 and for sound through the speakers; however, not allow dialing through the PCM 2 buttons, but maybe voice dialing through the mic, if your phone supports it.
There is another rumor that Porsche is going to offer a Bluetooth connection to the PCM 2. Here is another company working on the Bluetooth connection to MOST. http://www.stollmann.de/doku/desg/most.pdf
04-04-2004, 05:15 PM
#38
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Kevin,
Nice research job and thanks for the links.
I am curious to see the final Porsche offering, as it is still unclear exactly how they implemented this option.
Based on the design of the system, only the amplifier has connections to the speakers and the amplifier only communicates via MOST/fiber optics.
In order for the cellphone audio to be routed to the left front speaker(s), there are 2 possible solutions:
1. Put the cellphone inteface on the MOST ring. This then allows for communications and audio content to be exchanged with headunit and amplifier respectively. This would require a location where MOST fiber is readily accessible, similar to the install requirements for the CDC4 changer.
Check under the seat(s) to see if US/RoW Cayennes have the fiber there or not.
2. Run the system independent of MOST in analog format. This would require a wire running to the headunit for MUTE enable when a call is incoming or in progress. The headunit would then signal the amplifier (over MOST) to stop driving the left front speaker(s). It would also require that this module be hardwired to the left front speaker(s) so as to be able to drive it directly. This is essentially a wired OR implementation; either the amp or the phone module can drive the speaker. This would require quite a bit of wiring, again if it is not already in place. One of the links posted by Kevin of the wiring adapter is such an implementation.
A bit of historical but potentially useful reference.
The 2004 Audi A8L is a MOST based infotainment vehicle and actually has 2 very different phone implementations.
A. European cars have the phone module on the MOST ring directly, similar to #1 above.
B. RoW cars use an hybrid system. Since the US based Motorola telematics was not ready in time, the cellphone audio is routed to the amplifier via wires (differential line level analog). The amplifier then accepts this audio content, processes it via commands from the headunit and routes it appropriately to the speaker(s).
(For any electrical geeks in the audience.....this was a last minute design due to the lack of availability of a US MOST phone telematics module (I remember it quite vividly when on a Friday we had to figure out how to interface the cellphone audio to the already completed MOST amplifier.....my wife said I was not a happy camper that weekend).
In the end, it was accomplished by reconfiguring microphone input #2 to accept a higher level input signal. Euro A8's have 2 microphones, #1 front cabin and #2 rear seat, so anyone can communicate handsfree over the MOST phone. The RoW (US) A8 used mic input #2 for the analog cellphone interface). Not exactly worthy of a trip to Stockholm for the Nobel Prize, but it worked).
Of course, as soon as someone actually sees this option, then we'll have the answer.
Nice research job and thanks for the links.
I am curious to see the final Porsche offering, as it is still unclear exactly how they implemented this option.
Based on the design of the system, only the amplifier has connections to the speakers and the amplifier only communicates via MOST/fiber optics.
In order for the cellphone audio to be routed to the left front speaker(s), there are 2 possible solutions:
1. Put the cellphone inteface on the MOST ring. This then allows for communications and audio content to be exchanged with headunit and amplifier respectively. This would require a location where MOST fiber is readily accessible, similar to the install requirements for the CDC4 changer.
Check under the seat(s) to see if US/RoW Cayennes have the fiber there or not.
2. Run the system independent of MOST in analog format. This would require a wire running to the headunit for MUTE enable when a call is incoming or in progress. The headunit would then signal the amplifier (over MOST) to stop driving the left front speaker(s). It would also require that this module be hardwired to the left front speaker(s) so as to be able to drive it directly. This is essentially a wired OR implementation; either the amp or the phone module can drive the speaker. This would require quite a bit of wiring, again if it is not already in place. One of the links posted by Kevin of the wiring adapter is such an implementation.
A bit of historical but potentially useful reference.
The 2004 Audi A8L is a MOST based infotainment vehicle and actually has 2 very different phone implementations.
A. European cars have the phone module on the MOST ring directly, similar to #1 above.
B. RoW cars use an hybrid system. Since the US based Motorola telematics was not ready in time, the cellphone audio is routed to the amplifier via wires (differential line level analog). The amplifier then accepts this audio content, processes it via commands from the headunit and routes it appropriately to the speaker(s).
(For any electrical geeks in the audience.....this was a last minute design due to the lack of availability of a US MOST phone telematics module (I remember it quite vividly when on a Friday we had to figure out how to interface the cellphone audio to the already completed MOST amplifier.....my wife said I was not a happy camper that weekend).
In the end, it was accomplished by reconfiguring microphone input #2 to accept a higher level input signal. Euro A8's have 2 microphones, #1 front cabin and #2 rear seat, so anyone can communicate handsfree over the MOST phone. The RoW (US) A8 used mic input #2 for the analog cellphone interface). Not exactly worthy of a trip to Stockholm for the Nobel Prize, but it worked).
Of course, as soon as someone actually sees this option, then we'll have the answer.
04-04-2004, 10:48 PM
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Lewis (and others),
Now that I'm back from beautiful San Diego (celebrating my first anniversary with my better half), I wanted to chime in here. I talked with my guys at Park Place late last week. The system noted in the article is indeed a MOST-based system. The interface point (wouldn't you know it!) is back in the rear quarter panel by the amplifier and CD changer. The wiring runs are essentially from that location up to the console to support the interface to the phone. The parts themselves will be in the price range already quoted. The challenge is the labor! Just like the CD Changer installation, you have to remove untold panels to get the wiring properly run. And GOD HELP YOU if you screw up the wiring harness! I also found out (from my Bi-Xenon quest) that Porsche A.G. still builds wiring harnesses specific to the VIN number! In the immortal words of Charlie Brown...... Arrrrrggggghhhhhhh!!! I can't even believe it!
Anyway, to your point, yes, this is a MOST-based system. The interface for the telematics module is in the right rear quarter panel )where it joins the ring with all other constituents) and the labor charges will be the killer for installation! Park Place has already told me to stay away from them! (Not really, but I think they were all thinking that when we talked about it!)
This is definitely a number of steps forward, but a few steps back as well. I think it all depends on what kind of cradle connections they will support. If they will support the mini-USB and standard USB connections, the great news is that devices like the Motorola MPx200/MPx220 and MPx will work just fine! Woo hoo!!!!
Toby
Now that I'm back from beautiful San Diego (celebrating my first anniversary with my better half), I wanted to chime in here. I talked with my guys at Park Place late last week. The system noted in the article is indeed a MOST-based system. The interface point (wouldn't you know it!) is back in the rear quarter panel by the amplifier and CD changer. The wiring runs are essentially from that location up to the console to support the interface to the phone. The parts themselves will be in the price range already quoted. The challenge is the labor! Just like the CD Changer installation, you have to remove untold panels to get the wiring properly run. And GOD HELP YOU if you screw up the wiring harness! I also found out (from my Bi-Xenon quest) that Porsche A.G. still builds wiring harnesses specific to the VIN number! In the immortal words of Charlie Brown...... Arrrrrggggghhhhhhh!!! I can't even believe it!
Anyway, to your point, yes, this is a MOST-based system. The interface for the telematics module is in the right rear quarter panel )where it joins the ring with all other constituents) and the labor charges will be the killer for installation! Park Place has already told me to stay away from them! (Not really, but I think they were all thinking that when we talked about it!)
This is definitely a number of steps forward, but a few steps back as well. I think it all depends on what kind of cradle connections they will support. If they will support the mini-USB and standard USB connections, the great news is that devices like the Motorola MPx200/MPx220 and MPx will work just fine! Woo hoo!!!!
Toby
04-05-2004, 02:33 AM
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Toby,
First off, congratulations and Happy Anniversary
Second, thanks for info. Knew about the wiring harness thing, as ther is a new Cayenne sitting at my local dealer still awaiting an entire wiring harness from Porsche. Still can't figure out why they would build option specific harnesses as opposed to a standard fully loaded harness (can't be weight!)
Apart from installation labor/hassles, my next fear is going to be SOFTWARE! Put something new on the ring and you've entered the realm of the S/W engineers (abandon all faith ye who enter
)
Personally, I'm pretty happy with my Nextel sitting on the Kuda base. It has a built in speaker phone and the mute button is on the steering wheel! Then again, I'll probably get one just to take it apart to see what's inside
First off, congratulations and Happy Anniversary
Second, thanks for info. Knew about the wiring harness thing, as ther is a new Cayenne sitting at my local dealer still awaiting an entire wiring harness from Porsche. Still can't figure out why they would build option specific harnesses as opposed to a standard fully loaded harness (can't be weight!)
Apart from installation labor/hassles, my next fear is going to be SOFTWARE! Put something new on the ring and you've entered the realm of the S/W engineers (abandon all faith ye who enter
)Personally, I'm pretty happy with my Nextel sitting on the Kuda base. It has a built in speaker phone and the mute button is on the steering wheel! Then again, I'll probably get one just to take it apart to see what's inside
04-05-2004, 07:18 AM
#41
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In addition the the software issues that Lewis mentions, the other issue that jumps to mind, for the MY03 and MY04 Cayennes, is that the US PCM2 keypad does not have the on-hook and off-hook telephone control buttons that exist on the European version.
Presumably, now that Porsche is offering this option for the US, they will supply a PCM2 with the European keypad, for MY05 and beyond.
Regarding the wiring harness, some of the options require different harnesses, such as Xenon versus hallogen. Also, given the MOST is an unbroken ring, it can't be routed to an unused location.
But I agree, I am always disappointed when I find that a vehicle manufacturer COULD have added an optional connector, but didn't, which then makes an upgrade take many times the effort.
Presumably, now that Porsche is offering this option for the US, they will supply a PCM2 with the European keypad, for MY05 and beyond.
Regarding the wiring harness, some of the options require different harnesses, such as Xenon versus hallogen. Also, given the MOST is an unbroken ring, it can't be routed to an unused location.
But I agree, I am always disappointed when I find that a vehicle manufacturer COULD have added an optional connector, but didn't, which then makes an upgrade take many times the effort.
04-07-2004, 09:08 AM
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Originally posted by wingless
In addition the the software issues that Lewis mentions, the other issue that jumps to mind, for the MY03 and MY04 Cayennes, is that the US PCM2 keypad does not have the on-hook and off-hook telephone control buttons that exist on the European version.
Presumably, now that Porsche is offering this option for the US, they will supply a PCM2 with the European keypad, for MY05 and beyond.
In addition the the software issues that Lewis mentions, the other issue that jumps to mind, for the MY03 and MY04 Cayennes, is that the US PCM2 keypad does not have the on-hook and off-hook telephone control buttons that exist on the European version.
Presumably, now that Porsche is offering this option for the US, they will supply a PCM2 with the European keypad, for MY05 and beyond.
If this is correct, then the telephone may include labels to apply over the buttons that indicate the new functions.
04-10-2004, 04:45 PM
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I Just Purchased the Porsche Cell Solution! :cheers:
Well, I just purchased the Porsche Cell Solution today from Park Place Porsche. Give me a few hours to digest the info and I will post an update later today. I CAN tell you all that there is a Bluetooth base in testing right now and cradles currently available from PCNA for the following phones:
Nokia 1260/2260/3360/3390
Nokia 3560/3590/3595
Nokia 3285/5165/6310i/6340i/6360
Nokia 6590/8390
Nokia 6100/6200/6610/7210/7250
SonyEricsson T68i
SonyEricsson T610/T616
Siemens S55/A56/C56/CT56/S56
Siemens M46
Motorola all versions of V60
Motorola V400/V500/V600
Motorola T720/T730
Samsung v205/v206
Samsung v307
And for those of you who like being on the bleeding edge, a cradle for the Treo 600 is also in final compatibility testing!
As best as I can tell from my cursory look, the internal spoiler mounted antenna is a quad-band antenna (850/900/1800/1900) that supports TDMA/CDMA/GSM. At a minimum it supports both TDMA and GSM because the 6340I phone is a GAIT phone (switches back and forth between TDMA and GSM as needed).
Oh, and I have Porsche Part Numbers!
Film at 11 kiddos!
Toby
Nokia 1260/2260/3360/3390
Nokia 3560/3590/3595
Nokia 3285/5165/6310i/6340i/6360
Nokia 6590/8390
Nokia 6100/6200/6610/7210/7250
SonyEricsson T68i
SonyEricsson T610/T616
Siemens S55/A56/C56/CT56/S56
Siemens M46
Motorola all versions of V60
Motorola V400/V500/V600
Motorola T720/T730
Samsung v205/v206
Samsung v307
And for those of you who like being on the bleeding edge, a cradle for the Treo 600 is also in final compatibility testing!
As best as I can tell from my cursory look, the internal spoiler mounted antenna is a quad-band antenna (850/900/1800/1900) that supports TDMA/CDMA/GSM. At a minimum it supports both TDMA and GSM because the 6340I phone is a GAIT phone (switches back and forth between TDMA and GSM as needed).
Oh, and I have Porsche Part Numbers!
Film at 11 kiddos!
Toby
Last edited by Toby Pennycuff; 04-10-2004 at 05:12 PM.