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timing chain and components done without dropping engine
My cayenne started having a tick noise after this winter , I have a thread called " another cylinder bore score or what " so after 6 months of waiting because of no time to take care of it I decided to dive into it.
I thought that the noise is coming from the timing chain cover so time to investigate.
This job is by no means an easy job because of all the components that have to come out to get the job done and the complexity of the timing procedure as well.
Started by removing headlights , then bumper cover.
To remove the bumper cover u will have to remove wheel well covers on each side.
Next I removed the radiator air scoop or that big plastic air intake in front of radiator.
Next was the air intake at the engine and all the coolant hoses on top also removed the intercooler pipes and then both intercoolers and the intakes for the the air boxes.
After that I disconnected the trans cooler lines from the radiator , ac lines and power steering lines , the hood latch wire and then removed the whole front end .
Next was the intake cover, had to loosen the alternator cable ( what a pain ) also I had to remove alternator.
Removed serpentine belt and all tensioners and Idlers. Removed the crank pulley , both valve covers which includes coils,plugs etc.
Pulled the timing cover off and inspected the components.
I could not see anything wrong with the chain or any of its components :-( .
The timing looks off . I just ordered everything new and will get back when the parts come in in 2-3 days time.
Any advice at this point in time I would gladly appreciate it .
Good work. How many hours do you have in it so far? If you are able to discern this is a top end issue and are confident you can get it running smoothly again, changing the belt, pulleys, waterpump, diverters, and turbo plumbing seals will never be easier than right now!
Can you take some pics of the top of the heads? Did you perform a compression and/or leakdown test before pulling things apart?
What makes you say the timing looks off now that it's all apart?
Is there enough slack in the chain where something could have jumped a a tooth? It's possible it looks off because the tensioners may not be pressurized and the cam solenoids aren't set in their positions because the engine isn't running.
Did you happen to check camshaft deviation values between the 2 banks with a tool like Durametric before taking things apart?
What makes you say the timing looks off now that it's all apart?
Is there enough slack in the chain where something could have jumped a a tooth? It's possible it looks off because the tensioners may not be pressurized and the cam solenoids aren't set in their positions because the engine isn't running.
Did you happen to check camshaft deviation values between the 2 banks with a tool like Durametric before taking things apart?
See his other thread, video is posted and I believe it's an 08 957,
Car is an 08 957, I did not check compression or did a leak down test and did not do any durametric camshaft deviation values.
The reason I went for the chain is that there was too much slack in it .
I did the water pump, thermostat housing, the last plastic coolant pipe and the coolant fitting that pops out of the block last year.
Also did all tensioners and idlers, belt, spark plugs and coils .
It looks like the timing chain tensioner it is not hydraulic, it has a spring inside that keeps the tension on the rail that tensions the chain.
When I had the valve cover off I could pull the chain up from in between the cams sprockets by hand !!!
After looking at all the components looks like the tensioner was the only one that could allow that slack. I checked the tensioner and it seems to be fine. It looks like I'm missing something.
Tomorrow I should receive the parts and after I replace everything on friday I will be able to tell if the same condition happens with all new timing components.
Until then it is all talk.
How do I know timing is off ?? after reading the timing procedure of the cams , I can look at them and see that they are nowhere near where they suppose to be , but that could also be because the tensioner is off and the cams moved when I removed the cover .
Which smart engineer put the damn tensioner in the cover ??? Why not in the block so u can remove cover and still have all the timing components tight and u can mark everything before pulling apart and also see if timing is off!!!
As far as time goes it took me about 8H to get to this point. I think that If I would do it again now it will be like 5-6 H since it takes some time to figure things out and made a couple tool runs to the store. Maybe even 4H.
Heres some shots from up above.
Interesting. I had seen that video of the loose chains you made. I just went and checked mine for you from the oil fill hole. If I reach to the right side (toward the engine) I can lift it just a little bit and it will drop down - just enough where it will make a little noise as I lift and release, but I can't get my finger down past the sprocket and as low as you can where yours has enough play to touch the side of the case. To the left side, I have no play at all as far as I can reach.
Is it possible to change the tensioners without much disassembly - that may be why they're integrated into the covers. On the 997 you can replace the tensioners by just by locking the cams at TDC and doing them one at a time so you only remove a little bit of tension from the chains each time.
Is it really necessary to use that air tensioner when u do the timing ??? why not use the real tensioner since that's the one that's going to be there anyway and I don't have to deal with the fear that something went off when I removed that air one for the timing procedure and install the real one??
I'm thinking I'll use the real one for the timing procedure so I don't have to pull anything out .
What do u guys think??
Also here's a shot of the tensioner, as u can see there is no oil passages going to it so oit is not hydraulic unless I'm missing something. It is just a damn spring loaded tensioner so it should be tight all the time even with the engine off, unless mine is bad and it is acting like a spring one !!
Update, the tensioner is hydraulic my bad.
Check pictures below to see the oil passages. Tensioner is 27mm same as the crank bolt.
In that case, the spring probably only supplies initial startup tension until. The hydraulics take over. So, do you think you have a bad hydraulic tensioner? How do you test one?
The only way I can think of testing one is if u make a custom fitting where U can apply oil pressure to the holes in the tensioner and see if u have a leak around the shaft , I assume the only way it will go bad is if u have a bad seal that lets pressure pass by the seal .
Best way is to replace it every 50k miles and be done.
Got the parts in today and after dinner had a couple hours to work on the car.
I compared the new chain with the old one and the old was was about a link bigger !!!
In the picture they were both hanging from a screwdriver shaft that was held level.
On the right is the new one and on the left the old one.
Next I cleaned the mating surfaces of the timing case cover and engine block and installed the new seals.
I loosened the T60 screws holding the cams on position , U have to hold with a 32mm the hex on the end of the cams.
I then staked the cams , driver side was easy pretty easy close to the position it had to be in , driver side the cam with the adjuster was close but the other one with the sprocket only was far off .
I removed old chain , installed the new guides installed the new chain.
I reinstalled the timing cover and installed the new tensioner.
It is like day and night the diference in chain play with all new components. I can't even move the new chain AT ALL. I tried pulling on it from every angle I could and nothing.
I'm starting to think that I was probably hitting a valve or something like that with the old timing drivetrain.
Who knows , I hope that this will fix my ticking problem because up to now I did not believe that the timing was the issue after seeing the old components.
I took some shots after I staked the cams and with the new chain installed.
Hopefully tomorrow she is all back in one piece and time for startup.
09-10-2019, 02:14 PM
timing chain and components done without dropping engine
