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I recently made the not fully thought out inspired choice to make a Cayenne my daily driver. Fuel economy aside, I do like the way Porsche has put things together, reminds me of my 02 987. Now! the infamous Carden shaft has been playing at my mind because I hear a a metallic sound (not quite a clunk or clang, running out of adjectives here!) and knowing that unlike the IMS bearing, it's not a matter of if, but when, I decided to crawl under the car and take a look at the fatal flaw. I was expecting the following (Image borrowed from Wayne Dempsy's Pelicanparts.com which has a great write up on the ultimate solution for the bearing failure)
However, without removing the bracketing below the bearing point I did manage to get a camera in and found myself staring at the following;
Sadly this does not appear to be the Vertex option, but I have no idea what I'm looking at. A fully stripped boot? Another repair path? the completely wrong location? I know there are countless threads on -how- to replace the joint or the argument of joint vs. entire shaft, just hoping someone more familiar can look at what I've got and say 'well, you're in trouble' or 'actually that should last you a few years of rideshare hell!' :-)
It looks like a normal factory center support bearing. How much life it has remaining is tough to gauge with a visual inspection. I know mine went from looking okay to torn and thumping around in about 3K miles.
Last edited by fortysixandtwo; 08-28-2019 at 04:15 AM.
Reason: fixed typo
correct me if i'm mistaken, but if you replace the entire drive shaft with a Porsche driveshaft, you continue to purchase the INSUFFICIENTLY engineered center bearing support that could fail almost any time. so spending all that money on a new driveshaft doesn't accomplish much as far as not worrying about the center bearing support? Making the $15 Jimi fix a more permanent solution if installed with stainless steel zip ties instead of plastic?
correct me if i'm mistaken, but if you replace the entire drive shaft with a Porsche driveshaft, you continue to purchase the INSUFFICIENTLY engineered center bearing support that could fail almost any time. so spending all that money on a new driveshaft doesn't accomplish much as far as not worrying about the center bearing support? Making the $15 Jimi fix a more permanent solution if installed with stainless steel zip ties instead of plastic?
No need for SS zips. Jimi Fix hose slices needs some give, only semi-loose black plastic zips provide.... not a thin metal strap, slowly reciprocating itself deep into the rubber hose pieces and slashing them apart.
So I actually did just what was recommended in using store bought heater 5/8" heater hose and heavy duty zip ties. I removed as much of the old bearing around the outer race as I could, same with the old bushing holder. Unfortunately each time (and I gave it three tries, each time varying both the position of the Jimi fix base relative to the plate and the overall length of the hoses) I'd be fine until 34-37 mph when a vibration would ensue. My original assembly didn't generate any vibration like this, in fact it 'looked' fine, but clearly I'm not following instructions in some vital way. If I had to take a guess, it's the length of the hose, cutting and trimming results in uneven hose length relative to each piece seemingly no matter how I cut them. I've tried just four zip ties to secure the new Jimi fix to the existing bushing support frame, to eight, all with the same results. I can 'drive' just fine, but I'm hoping some suggestions might be afforded about what best to use for cutting the hose to require minimal trimming, something I may be doing wrong, etc.
Did you use 5/8" INSIDE diameter or 5/8" OUTSIDE diameter hose? I don't recall which one is correct for this application without reading-up again, but if you used 5/8" outside diameter, that could leave too much space between the center collar and the outer collar if 5/8" is the correct inside diameter.
The pieces of hose only have to be close to the same length. The small diameter they spin at won't create any noticeable vibrations from being out of balance. I wouldn't make one piece an inch long and another piece 2 inches long... but if you are within a 1/4" to 1/8" spread you should be fine.
While it's not likely, you could have an issue at a U-joint in the drive shaft that's causing the shaft to misbehave a bit.
There should be enough pieces of hose between the bearing collar and housing that you can't fit another piece of hose in there.
The car parts store I went two had two sorts of rubber tubing with 5/8" inside diameter. The counter guy brought out a sample of both. One of them was stiffer than the other... I chose the stiffer one and have not had problems with vibration. By "stiffer" I mean when you squeeze the rubber pipe, trying to pinch it closed, one of the types of tubing the parts store had was harder to squeeze together. I vaguely recall one of them being heater hose and one being fuel hose, hence the tactile difference. I thought the "weaker" hose might have allowed the center bearing to wobble so I chose the stiffer tubing.
I relied on heater hose in the first two instances, my first hose was outer 5/8', the second is firmer, more thread in it, but it appears to be the same. There is no play between the pieces of hose, and they certainly were difficult to fit over the outer race of the bearing.
You must use 5/8" inner diameter braided heater hose, cut into 1.50" slices of eight. The bearing must not have any roughness and should be perfectly centered.
I've done four Jimi Fixes already and finds zero NVH in each sub-20 minute job preformed. The zip ties must not be strapped chokehold tight, either... only when strapped to the bearing support ring.
I can see where I made two critical mistakes then; hose length, and points of tension (i.e., chokehold tension between hose sections.) Hopefully next crack at it will solve these issues.
Did you use 5/8" INSIDE diameter or 5/8" OUTSIDE diameter hose? I don't recall which one is correct for this application without reading-up again, but if you used 5/8" outside diameter, that could leave too much space between the center collar and the outer collar if 5/8" is the correct inside diameter.
The pieces of hose only have to be close to the same length. The small diameter they spin at won't create any noticeable vibrations from being out of balance. I wouldn't make one piece an inch long and another piece 2 inches long... but if you are within a 1/4" to 1/8" spread you should be fine.
Scoot - the hoses don't spin or rotate, they are fixed to the mount bracket that is solidly affixed to the car. More likely it's possible the mount is off-center and the shaft isn't straight. To the OP - the shaft HAS TO BE STRAIGHT. Look at where the mount was originally mounted and make sure it's aligned to the same position. That should give you a good starting point.
Originally Posted by ScootCherHienie
While it's not likely, you could have an issue at a U-joint in the drive shaft that's causing the shaft to misbehave a bit.
There should be enough pieces of hose between the bearing collar and housing that you can't fit another piece of hose in there.
The car parts store I went two had two sorts of rubber tubing with 5/8" inside diameter. The counter guy brought out a sample of both. One of them was stiffer than the other... I chose the stiffer one and have not had problems with vibration. By "stiffer" I mean when you squeeze the rubber pipe, trying to pinch it closed, one of the types of tubing the parts store had was harder to squeeze together. I vaguely recall one of them being heater hose and one being fuel hose, hence the tactile difference. I thought the "weaker" hose might have allowed the center bearing to wobble so I chose the stiffer tubing.
Scoot - the hoses don't spin or rotate, they are fixed to the mount bracket that is solidly affixed to the car. More likely it's possible the mount is off-center and the shaft isn't straight. To the OP - the shaft HAS TO BE STRAIGHT. Look at where the mount was originally mounted and make sure it's aligned to the same position. That should give you a good starting point.
I noticed the slots for the old bushing mount and made a point to align the bolts with where wear patterns had been present on the original bushing -however- because I'm always able to Mississippi a project like no other, I boogered the threads on one of the carrier thread series which means the bolt doesn't torque which is probably why I'm getting vibration (torque slides the bolt if I had to guess, out of alignment, horrible noise!.) When I go back for my next attempt I need to chase the threads, procure a new bolt of similar dimensions if necessary, and follow instructions regarding where to pull zip ties taught and where to allow some flex. Hopefully that does it. If not I've got the Vertex solution due in tomorrow, which I'd rather return, but I know as a shade tree mechanic I only manage to get it right some of the time. Thank you so much for your advice in the mean time, At least unlike the 986 I owned, I don't have to put anything in the freezer prior to installation or worry about damaging a bear.....OK so that last one is a constant. Thanks Porsche :-)
I thought I'd close this thread off since I've reached a point where things are somewhat finalized for now.
The Good (I'm following a theme, not unintentionally speaking ill of the Jimi-fix which -should- have worked); I ordered and installed the Vertex fix, which....didn't fix the vibration.
The Bad; I discovered at this point sometime in the vehicle's history, an aftermarket Carden shaft bearing/bushing assembly had been installed on the OEM drive shaft. Having spoken to the folks at Vertex, they indicated I needed to install their flex disk which mitigated most of the vibration, but not enough of it for me to be satisfied. The actual designer of the Vertex fix indicated I needed to give it a couple weeks or so for things to settle. They didn't. If I had to guess, in removal of an extra metal housing protecting the aftermarket bearing in order to install the Vertex fix my accidental scoring of the inner race's housing finally ruined the bearing completely.
The Ugly; I installed a new complete Non-OEM drive shaft assembly from Amazon. The vibration is gone, but I have no idea how long the less than three hundred dollar drive shaft will last.
Owing to the fact that I know the original drive shaft I pulled was, just that, OEM, I'm planning on having a local shop replace the ruined bearing with a replacement aftermarket bearing without secondary housing/bushing and have them re-balance the drive shaft for me if it's necessary. that way I'm hoping upon failure of my aftermarket drive shaft I can reinstall the reworked OEM driveshaft with new bearing and Vertex solution, matching flex disk, and calling it a day. I don't think Vertex will accept their part and flex disk back used for a full refund. Clear as mud, yeah?
Postmortem; the Jimi-fix -should- have worked, but I also shouldn't have been so hot to trot on installation on a perfectly good aftermarket Carden shaft bearing/bushing assembly. For the record; I always end up doing things backwards. While we're adding to said record, having a complete history beyond the CarFax and calling the mechanic's shop that serviced the car exclusively for the last decade only to learn 'we done gone got nothing for you Mr. we replaced the record keeping system and lost allllllll that information, but I recall the car, yes sir I do! can't tell ya much of what we done to her though' is a must have.
Lets hope the sound of a failing PCV diaphragm is something I correctly go about diagnosing and repairing in the near future... :-) (I have the V6, otherwise I'd be talking about AOS valves, the sound is identical to what a failing AOS valve on my 986 made prior its failure, guess who needs to pull a spark plug or two prior to going about it!? me!.)
The Ugly; I installed a new complete Non-OEM drive shaft assembly from Amazon. The vibration is gone, but I have no idea how long the less than three hundred dollar drive shaft will last.
Probably around 100k miles, after which you can do the Jimi Fix.
08-26-2019 | 05:21 PM
Modified Carden Shaft assembly?
