Kirill

Unlikely, if the root cause is scorred cylinder - than once one goes the other ones will fail shortly

ScootCherHienie

agree if the problem is cylinder scoring... not fixable without a new engine block... and the reloacement engine needs to have no evidence of scoring. Most any other problem should be fixable without replacing the engine. Keep in mind if there is cylinder scoring (or any other type of metal wear or damage), metal particles have circulated through the ENTIRE engine block... through every oil passage. And that includes filling every nook and cranny in the cylinder heads and crankcase. If there was a way to save the current engine block, and the problem is some sort of metal loss (like cylinder scoring), the engine would have to be fully disassembled and cleaned in great detail... IF the metal particles circulating through the oiling system haven't damaged anything (including the oil pump, crankshaft bearings, camshafts or cam positioning mechanisms, connecting rod bearings, pistons/rings/bores, et al ).

deilenberger

Scoot - there are two companies I know of who rescue the block. One bores and plates it back to size again, the other puts in liners. In both cases they require a naked block be shipped to them with all steel removed from it since part of the process is acid cleaning of the block. That means total disassembly, and I suspect any metal particle damage would be found during the disassembly. No inexpensive way to fix these except take a beating on trade-in, or find a used engine and hope it's good.

mungojerie

I have updates, and just want to thank everyone again. This has been such a helpful thread. I've benefitted so much. THANK YOU!

Update 1:
Seller is being somewhat helpful. Researching and negotiating salvage engine costs for me -- got Quality Porsche Parts to lower price nicely on one. Seller's also offering me a free loaner come this weekend. They also paid for transport when my Cayenne broke down and so far haven't asked to be paid back. And offering to replace it at a low labor rate ($59/hr) and cap the hours at 20. So, max labor cost of $1,180, which is well under quotes I'm getting elsewhere in town, which range $2-3k, and most shops won't touch this. So I'm looking at total cost here of at or just under $6k given the engines I am interested in on salvage.

I hope they're not underestimating the work, though. Are they naive?

Update 2:
The mechanic at the seller has a mentor who is widely respected in Porsche. I spoke to the mentor yesterday. Turns out that the seller has spoken to his mentor about it a bit (so, they're not embarrassed enough to avoid discussing it), and the mentor said the seller "has it in his head that excess burning fuel caused this damage, and that just can't be the case." Which, of course, is what two Porsche dealers, and now three European/Porsche independent specialists, and people on this thread, have all said.

Relatedly, I spoke to a lawyer with experience in consumer law here in NC. It's an AS-IS state, but given the seller's representing the car as "perfect", and themselves as specialists, and this engine being known to have issues like this and so it was worth checking, and we know they did not borescope or compression test it... lawyer thinks I have a stronger case on misrepresentation than they have in defending it. But not clear cut, never is.

So, I'm trying to decide if I threaten them with action to get help on the engine cost. Or keep working with them since they are being responsive and seemingly helpful. I think they're kids (around 30... I'm 38!) who screwed up by being negligent, and are trying to eke out of this without too much damage. And have convinced themselves their theory on why the engined died just might be true, even if no one else thinks so. It would cost me another $1500 to go elsewhere, basically, so there is risk in threatening them vs. being nicey-nicey.

That's where it's at now.

Suggestions welcome. But also thought y'all would enjoy an update.

Kirill

I think book time on R&R of the cayenne engine is about 8 hours, assuming salvage engine will need new plugs, coils, oil & coolant change, and some electronic wizardry to get going - they are in ballpark. $59 an hour is very discounted rate indeed - most indy shops will charge at least $100

All of the problems are likely caused by scored cylinders, scored cylinders require engine overhaul to fix correctly, that problem was there when they sold the vehicle to you - anything else like fouled plugs, oil consumption, misfires - are just the symptoms of scored cylinders.

Sounds like what lawyer says is correct - while seller try to use "AS-IS" defense - you will counter it as "Major mechanical issue rendering the vehicle unusable, seller tried to conceal it by changing plugs - resulting grossly misrepresented product hence the deal is void"

They either lying to you or they really don't understand - If they listen - you can probably educate them with pictures of scored cylinders on V8.

It all boils down to:
The $6k deal on replacing the engine - is hard to beat.
But you shouldn't be paying for it. If they not willing to take it back - your other option to sue them and hope the court resolves it in your favor.

vandal968

Mungojerie,
I don't know what you should do, but I think you're being one hell of a good sport about it. I hope this works out for you.

cheers,
c

v10rick

1. Hire a lawyer, have your day in court...outcome unknown. Could be flushing more $$ down the toilet.

Even if the court rules in your favor, which results in a judgement against the seller, this is no guarantee that you will get your money anytime soon.
What if they don't have the funds to pay the judgment? You file a lien against the business and wait for?
If they close shop and move on, you are in line with the other creditors.

The above is dependent on the laws in your state. I would run this scenario by a local attorney for clarification.

2. Replace the engine with a known good one for ? $$. Outcome more certain then 1, but you will be underwater if you decide to sell.

If you intend to drive this until the wheels come off #2 is irrelevant.

nodoors

I also complement you on how great your attitude has been about this, especially in contrast to some of the people that come on here with problems and with half their prose comprised of belly-aching. It does sound more and more like incompetence on the seller's part and not dishonesty... so at least you know what you are up against. In my experience, involving lawyers will result in an outcome that will become the longest drawn out with the most uncertainty. There is a world where you lose twice with that option. There is potential for that situation to be far worse than just cutting your losses now and getting these guys to help you fix it. That is of course trusting that they have a mechanic who will be able to put this thing back together without causing a chain of lingering issues that plague your car for months or years to come and the salvaged engine does not suffer from the same problem!

It's tough a tough call with no right answer, but also think about what the time, stress, and lack of enjoyment of your new vehicle are worth to you when you weigh the legal option. If it were me, I would just get it fixed and move on while chalking it up to an education from the Porsche Gods. Much like the Norse ones, they are NOT always kind.

Perhaps the best hybrid solution would be to get the engine replaced and then pursue them in small claims court if things go further South in that process and your state has a limit that is not stupidly low. In the end, they did misrepresent the vehicle (albeit with a tricky issue) in the sale whether they are willing to admit or understand it.

Kirill

Here are more thoughts.
If you going to go replacement engine route - have them do motor mounts, water pump, serpentine belt and some other maintenance stuff - that we will think off. This way - assuming the new engine is good - you would cover yourself for $1500-3000 of future maintenance that brings your out of pocket cost for next few years of ownership down if you pay $6k and do $3k of maintenance - you net outlay of funds is $3k - which is more easy to swallow. and if you consider 50/50 chance of prevailing in court - both options have the same cost.

981S2013

mungojerie

Thanks everyone. I'm about to buy a low mileage engine (62k) that was bought in Florida and most recently serviced in Florida, and then taken in by a salvage yard in Florida. Huge gap (50k) in service records, though. The salvaged car was bought from Insurance Auto Auction in Illinois, but I'm unsure if that means the car was physically in Illinois or not. So I'm shooting for a warm weather vehicle but don't know. Alternative is a vehicle that clearly spent life in Texas but was flooded this fall. Salvage seller says flood didn't come near the engine, but I don't know.

Everything else I can find is from cold climates, so I'm super hesitant. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

v10rick

Re:Salvage seller says flood didn't come near the engine
This is a vague statement. Most flood cars listed on Coparts Auctions have the water line marked on the door or side. This would provide a clear picture about how high is high. The problem is the electronics, particularly when the water line is midway up.

Re: The salvaged car was bought from Insurance Auto Auction in Illinois
Will this have a salvage title? If so why? Will they allow a pre purchase inspection?

tomhartzell

Would you mind sharing the names of the companies who could rescue the block? I hope I never need to contact them, but that info would really come in handy if I do. Thanks!

vandal968

Mungojerie,
just keep in mind that by the time you buy an engine and get it swapped, you might be approaching the cost to just buy another Cayenne and still have your original one available for parts. I only paid $8700 for my 04 turbo. That's probably in the neighborhood of what you're going to spend to re-engine yours.

cheers,
c

Kirill

The other day I was in my 955 driving just outside of chicago, there was 957 next to me and 2 Macans driving opposite direction - Driving Porsche SUV in Chicago definitely not an exclusive thing.
Do you have VINs from either donor? To me - FL sounds better.
With TX water damage - if the vehicle was driven fast into water and making wave water could reach very high even if its not very deep