Engine blew - options? advice?
10-17-2016, 12:08 PM
#17
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I know I may be biased, but doing a rebuild on one of these engines would be rough.
The internal components (save for the IMS) are generally not the problem. Lots of people replace with used engines with a new/upgraded IMS and have great results. I have seen people track stock 170K stock engines that have nothing replaced except the IMS and water pump and the usual wear items with great results. As long as you address the IMS and don't forget the waterpump (overheating) these engines are reliable.
If anyone says the DIY rebuild would be "easy" they probably have not removed a single head, let alone the entire longblock assembly. Even just the disassembly takes a while when you have done it before.
The internal components (save for the IMS) are generally not the problem. Lots of people replace with used engines with a new/upgraded IMS and have great results. I have seen people track stock 170K stock engines that have nothing replaced except the IMS and water pump and the usual wear items with great results. As long as you address the IMS and don't forget the waterpump (overheating) these engines are reliable.
If anyone says the DIY rebuild would be "easy" they probably have not removed a single head, let alone the entire longblock assembly. Even just the disassembly takes a while when you have done it before.
10-17-2016, 02:08 PM
#18
Drifting
We should have a rating system for skill+cost+tools & equipment rating for engine rebuilds so the noobs can make wise choices ?
If a lawnmower engine is 1, SBC or Ford V8 is a 3 or 4, and Ferrari a 10 , an M96 is a 7 or 8 ?
Many seem to think it will be like a Miata or Duratec V6 - noooooo !
If a lawnmower engine is 1, SBC or Ford V8 is a 3 or 4, and Ferrari a 10 , an M96 is a 7 or 8 ?
Many seem to think it will be like a Miata or Duratec V6 - noooooo !
10-18-2016, 01:11 AM
#19
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Ya, I explored the option of doing a rebuild with my engine and my mechanic highly suggested against it. He said the cost would not be worth it, especially since the mileage on it so far is 140k. He said the best option would be to look for a replacement engine online, whether that's a second-hand engine pulled from another 986 (or compatible), or a rebuild with lower miles.
And as for an update, I got in contact with a Porsche enthusiast from Portland (I'm in Seattle) and he offered to buy her as a roller and turn her into a track car. Taking that money and looking for my next
And as for an update, I got in contact with a Porsche enthusiast from Portland (I'm in Seattle) and he offered to buy her as a roller and turn her into a track car. Taking that money and looking for my next
10-18-2016, 12:39 PM
#21
Former Vendor
Well, please find here also my best and sincere sympathy message for this quite bad event.
Now, let’s be logical in such situation:
First, there is clearly a market out there, for a Boxster S (6 speeds) with a dead engine, i.e.: a Boxster Roller.
Even myself, before I bought my Boxster S, I was looking at cars that would have a defective engine.
If a Boxster with a defective engine has a market out there, so, it means that fixing a Boxster engine is highly possible ! Right ?
Now, it all depend how much you like it ! Sure, if in your mind, you did not had the smile anymore, when entering on it, and go for a ride, but, in the opposite, you would have in your mind “one of this day, I want to change this car”, then, ..your solution to this problem would be different.
I would also do not think about parting it out, this is a LOT of time, and you need to be very patient. Many people, very well organized are doing that professionally and doing this from home as a hobby looks like a crazy tough job for me too !
I have changed many parts on my Boxster, and I have tried to sell some of the removed parts, and I can tell you that it is all but not easy. (i.e.: My garage is filling up, and a part of my ebay offers do remain unsold !)
Beside all of that, in my opinion, there is another reason that a “good” market exists for Boxster Roller : After 30 years non stop of 911 as daily, and a real lot of miles on few different 911’s, I can say that the Boxster is a fabulous chassis, much nicer to drive than a 911, particularly on track, much more efficient, much more easier to drive fast than a 911.
Sure it gives a lot less “thumbs up’s” but, in my case, this is even something that I prefer.
IMO, the only “problem” of the Boxster, ..is that it lacks “juice”, i.e.: more power!
So, if you find another guy that think like me, i.e.: the Boxster is perfect, but, want more power on it, then, I think it is better to buy a good Boxster with a dead engine, and then get the engine of your choice, with more power, ..than “doing that” with a running Boxster !
By the way, being a PCA member, and reading Panorama, I saw, (this month again), the ad below, i.e.: why not checking with this path ? ..if you still love your car !
Now, let’s be logical in such situation:
First, there is clearly a market out there, for a Boxster S (6 speeds) with a dead engine, i.e.: a Boxster Roller.
Even myself, before I bought my Boxster S, I was looking at cars that would have a defective engine.
If a Boxster with a defective engine has a market out there, so, it means that fixing a Boxster engine is highly possible ! Right ?
Now, it all depend how much you like it ! Sure, if in your mind, you did not had the smile anymore, when entering on it, and go for a ride, but, in the opposite, you would have in your mind “one of this day, I want to change this car”, then, ..your solution to this problem would be different.
I would also do not think about parting it out, this is a LOT of time, and you need to be very patient. Many people, very well organized are doing that professionally and doing this from home as a hobby looks like a crazy tough job for me too !
I have changed many parts on my Boxster, and I have tried to sell some of the removed parts, and I can tell you that it is all but not easy. (i.e.: My garage is filling up, and a part of my ebay offers do remain unsold !)
Beside all of that, in my opinion, there is another reason that a “good” market exists for Boxster Roller : After 30 years non stop of 911 as daily, and a real lot of miles on few different 911’s, I can say that the Boxster is a fabulous chassis, much nicer to drive than a 911, particularly on track, much more efficient, much more easier to drive fast than a 911.
Sure it gives a lot less “thumbs up’s” but, in my case, this is even something that I prefer.
IMO, the only “problem” of the Boxster, ..is that it lacks “juice”, i.e.: more power!
So, if you find another guy that think like me, i.e.: the Boxster is perfect, but, want more power on it, then, I think it is better to buy a good Boxster with a dead engine, and then get the engine of your choice, with more power, ..than “doing that” with a running Boxster !
By the way, being a PCA member, and reading Panorama, I saw, (this month again), the ad below, i.e.: why not checking with this path ? ..if you still love your car !
11-07-2016, 08:32 PM
#22
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I can relate as I just went through the same decision process. 2003 Boxster S, Tip,105k miles. What complicated my decision was that in the last year I had put about $6k into maintenance and service, only a small part of it on the engine. So I have a certain amount of confidence in the car.
I found a 3.2 from an '03 S with 41k miles for $5k, plus another $1k to do the IMS. $2,800 was the quote from my ( well respected indie shop ) to do the install. Prob throw in a few hundred to replace the water pump. So for about $9k I got to buy my car back.
LA dismantlers offered me the best price, including shipping to DC
Good luck
Carlos
I found a 3.2 from an '03 S with 41k miles for $5k, plus another $1k to do the IMS. $2,800 was the quote from my ( well respected indie shop ) to do the install. Prob throw in a few hundred to replace the water pump. So for about $9k I got to buy my car back.
LA dismantlers offered me the best price, including shipping to DC
Good luck
Carlos
11-09-2016, 03:42 PM
#23
The RND Engines to fit this 2002 986S (M96.21) are on special at www.rndeuroparts.com for almost 5K less than normal- FYI.
I would like to take the opportunity to have you around in this topic, to ask a question. May be a little bit off topic, ..but I think, not that much !
Beside my Boxster, that is essentially a track car, I have a Panamera 4S.
This is a fantastic "GT" (I mean "grand tourisme", or miles eater !)
I was under "CPO", and this till ..tomorrow !
About a month ago (64’000 miles), I had the infamous broken bolts in the sprocket of an intake camshaft. (Holding the Variocam system, so, these are only on the intake shafts.)
Somehow, I was lucky, the left side broke, as when it did happen (I was on freeway), I lost the high pressure pump (located in the rear of that shaft), so, I was able to pull out of the freeway, with messages on display like “engine on limited power”, CEL, and etc..
(If it would happen on the right side, you loose the vacuum pump (located in the back of the other intake camshaft), and good bye brake and steering assistance, ..which could be much more critical, i.e.: if you had to brake hard during this phase !)
Well, car was towed to dealer, and diagnostic was immediate (broken aluminum bolts on the intake shaft).
Head cover where removed, and bolts in both side were upgraded to steel. (Note that this should have been done under a recall process, i.e.: the PCNA WC-22 campaign, but, it was not in my case !!!)
I insisted very hardly to get the recovered bolts, and after this “repair” process, I got only barely 2.5 bolts (in small parts), over the total of 4 bolts lost in my engine !
(One of the part was fund in the sump !)
Well, the mechanic of the dealer remounted everything, and turned on the engine, ..to hear a pretty bad noise.
I thing we all know that this V8 is an interference engine, ..or at least for sure, this mechanic should have know that.
At this point, the engine has been removed, the left head has been dismounted, and the valves of cylinders 5 and 6 where changed.
I went as hard (staying extremely polite) to say, first, you found only 2.5 bolts over 4, so, I have hard aluminum parts, i.e.: one bolt and half moving around this engine, then, you fix the valves that have been bent, ..cleaning one head, and leaving the gulk in the other one, or, a serious potential of unbalance of power/efficiency, and after asking photos of the pistons of the cylinder 5 and 6, the dealer supplied nothing.
I got my car fixed, in what I consider a VERY POOR manner, and from tomorrow, my CPO is out.
I had to really make a lot of effort, pushing the case up to PCNA, to finally get a 2 years, 24’000 miles Porsche Power Train warranty.
But, still, as we use this car in “GT” mode, I do not feel confident on it anymore.
My feeling about this given dealer, to who, I bought this Panamera, another Cayenne Turbo, (following another Cayenne S) and that also been working on my Boxster, is gone to level, that I think, I do not need to explain here.
My question Jake, is the following :
What do you think about such engine that had 4 bent valves (in hard carbon steel) hitting 2 pistons (in aluminum) for a good amount of rotations, and this, added to the fact that I have 1.5 hard aluminum bolt, in parts, moving around the engine.
What would you think and do, if this would be your car ?
I would like to thank you very much in advance, for your High End Engine specialist view in such a case.
11-09-2016, 05:09 PM
#24
Former Vendor
GVA-SFO,
We are talking about a Panamera now?? If so, this isn't the thread for that chat. What you are dealing with would be pretty far removed from a Boxster engine.
We are talking about a Panamera now?? If so, this isn't the thread for that chat. What you are dealing with would be pretty far removed from a Boxster engine.
11-09-2016, 05:17 PM
#25
Drifting
To help us get back on subject.....
here is a link to 19 used Boxster engines - mainly S engines on FleaBay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca...ts_Accessories
The lower mileage ,high price ones seldom sell at the initial BIN price. They usually get discounted by 25% within a month.
The 2.5 engines are much cheaper.
Just Search in the "Complete Engines" section
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca...ts_Accessories
The lower mileage ,high price ones seldom sell at the initial BIN price. They usually get discounted by 25% within a month.
The 2.5 engines are much cheaper.
Just Search in the "Complete Engines" section
11-09-2016, 06:22 PM
#26
Yes, we are.
I do not think it is too much "off topic", i.e.: Would bent valves problem be considered fixed on an engine, when you only fix the valves ? (leaving the pistons as is)
..and this, when in addition to that, you have one bolt and half (aluminum bolt) moving around somewhere in an engine.
or, ..the fact that in my case, it is a V8 instead of a flat 6, imo, ..do not change much the nature of the question !
Do I have most of the components "on hands" ..to blow an engine soon ?
11-09-2016, 06:28 PM
#27
here is a link to 19 used Boxster engines - mainly S engines on FleaBay:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca...ts_Accessories
The lower mileage ,high price ones seldom sell at the initial BIN price. They usually get discounted by 25% within a month.
The 2.5 engines are much cheaper.
Just Search in the "Complete Engines" section
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_saca...ts_Accessories
The lower mileage ,high price ones seldom sell at the initial BIN price. They usually get discounted by 25% within a month.
The 2.5 engines are much cheaper.
Just Search in the "Complete Engines" section
http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-Boxster-S...dXvhIK&vxp=mtr
..thinking of a good candidate to send it to Jake for a 3.8 "fun+track version" rebuilt, i.e.: to let it wait in line on his side, while continuing to ride my Boxster with its current OEM 3.2l, doing the exchange, ..when done !
PS: My OEM 63k miles 2001 3.2 engine has already new water pump, sump extension, IMS LN Pro, UDP, new low temp thermostat, and etc.. ! (and over 1'000 track miles)
11-25-2016, 07:20 PM
#29
A few data poins based on my experience
I bought a very nice boxster S "roller with dead motor" a few years back. With high miles, they go to salvage for about $3000-4000 - maybe a bit more if you have great tires etc - but generally its best to sell them with dead tires etc, and sell goo bits independently. So not a lot of money.
I bought a motor from a reputable dismantler and put it in. The motors was around $6k, I did some upgrades to keep it reliable, and the in/out was about $2500 with parts etc. All in around $10k, with upgraded IMS, chain tensioners, water pump, hoses clamps, and a partidge....nevermind
Here's the rub - a motor may be good or it may be bad. Mine was destined to be a track car. While it ran smoothly and had good compression, the motor deteriorated very rapidly and is basically dead - needing a complete rebuild, 3 track-years later. By contrast my street car, with many miles and quite a large number of track days, is perfect. The point is uncertainty - you can get a well maintained motor or a poorly maintained motor, and its hard ot tell the difference without complete dis-assembly, which kinda defeats the purpose. So you have to ask yourself, "do you feel lucky?". well, do ya?
I did. I was wrong.
I'm now looking at various options again. 1) roll the dice on another used motor (probably a 3.4 or 3.6), rebuild mine (terrific local race shop and LN nickies), or buy a rebuilt motor a race shop has one the shelf (3.4). With in/out, clutch, blah, blah i can;t see any being under $12-14k, and at the top end more like $17k. That said my car will be much faster than stock and have a more durable motor than factory when done. But its not cheap.
You might find a race shop that will buy the roller for more than a dismantler. Good luck - they know the market too.
I do agree that this is a great chassis, and that your car looks beautiful. So maybe its worth $15k - at that point the most troublesome bit will be new or better than...
All the best,
G
I bought a motor from a reputable dismantler and put it in. The motors was around $6k, I did some upgrades to keep it reliable, and the in/out was about $2500 with parts etc. All in around $10k, with upgraded IMS, chain tensioners, water pump, hoses clamps, and a partidge....nevermind
Here's the rub - a motor may be good or it may be bad. Mine was destined to be a track car. While it ran smoothly and had good compression, the motor deteriorated very rapidly and is basically dead - needing a complete rebuild, 3 track-years later. By contrast my street car, with many miles and quite a large number of track days, is perfect. The point is uncertainty - you can get a well maintained motor or a poorly maintained motor, and its hard ot tell the difference without complete dis-assembly, which kinda defeats the purpose. So you have to ask yourself, "do you feel lucky?". well, do ya?
I did. I was wrong.
I'm now looking at various options again. 1) roll the dice on another used motor (probably a 3.4 or 3.6), rebuild mine (terrific local race shop and LN nickies), or buy a rebuilt motor a race shop has one the shelf (3.4). With in/out, clutch, blah, blah i can;t see any being under $12-14k, and at the top end more like $17k. That said my car will be much faster than stock and have a more durable motor than factory when done. But its not cheap.
You might find a race shop that will buy the roller for more than a dismantler. Good luck - they know the market too.
I do agree that this is a great chassis, and that your car looks beautiful. So maybe its worth $15k - at that point the most troublesome bit will be new or better than...
All the best,
G
11-25-2016, 07:32 PM
#30
Drifting
G,
Sobering numbers. Thanks for giving us all a reality check with your data points.
The other option is to do an rebuild like Ahsai is doing. But you need the skills, tools, equipment ,time and facilities to do it. Probably also need to go to Jake's Class and have a budget of about x3 the current value of the car.It is an expensive hobby !
Sobering numbers. Thanks for giving us all a reality check with your data points.
The other option is to do an rebuild like Ahsai is doing. But you need the skills, tools, equipment ,time and facilities to do it. Probably also need to go to Jake's Class and have a budget of about x3 the current value of the car.It is an expensive hobby !