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Stock flywheel, what is the life expectancy?

 
Old 03-12-2010, 03:53 PM
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MikeBat
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Default Stock flywheel, what is the life expectancy?

Hello guys,

my 2002 S is in the shop for an IMS upgrade plus a oil pump drive upgrade and while the transmission is out, the technician checked over the clutch and flywheel.

the car has 66,000 km, or 41,000 miles. Oil changes at regiously low intervals. Tech inspections 4 times a year.

Bothe the IMS and RMS were sweeting, but no real leaks. Whatever oil leaked was down in the bell housing. It did not drop a spot in the garage all winter.

He said the clutch looks great, but the stock dual mass flywheel needs to be replaced.

I asked why it fell apart, and he said it was somewhat normal wear and tear. some last longer then others. He said it was obvious the drive train was not abused because even after 3 seasons of track events, the stock clutch was in good shape.

I searched these forums for flywheel comments, and besides the "single mass flywheel" and Boxster Spec threads, I could not find much.

I trust my mechanic, he is an upright guy, very longtime PCA member, and a longtime poster here. I just want to hear more of others experiences with flywheels.

Please share.

-Michael
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeBat View Post
Hello guys,

my 2002 S is in the shop for an IMS upgrade plus a oil pump drive upgrade and while the transmission is out, the technician checked over the clutch and flywheel.

the car has 66,000 km, or 41,000 miles. Oil changes at regiously low intervals. Tech inspections 4 times a year.

Bothe the IMS and RMS were sweeting, but no real leaks. Whatever oil leaked was down in the bell housing. It did not drop a spot in the garage all winter.

He said the clutch looks great, but the stock dual mass flywheel needs to be replaced.

I asked why it fell apart, and he said it was somewhat normal wear and tear. some last longer then others. He said it was obvious the drive train was not abused because even after 3 seasons of track events, the stock clutch was in good shape.

I searched these forums for flywheel comments, and besides the "single mass flywheel" and Boxster Spec threads, I could not find much.

I trust my mechanic, he is an upright guy, very longtime PCA member, and a longtime poster here. I just want to hear more of others experiences with flywheels.

Please share.

-Michael
Flywheel life expectancy same as clutch's. It can last forever (229K miles in ahem one case (Mine!) or it can fail sooner, sometimes much sooner.

Generally the flywheel suffers when the clutch wears out and results in slippage which overheats the FW and if enough the surface gets hard spots and will not resurface properly and will chatter and grab.

Added: If the clutch disc wears too much the rivets can wear grooves in the flywheel and if too deep resurfacing not an option and the FW's toast.

Another failure mode, more rare, is the "dual mass" feature fails.

There is a test in which the tech measures the amount of movement the dual mass mechanism allows. There's a pretty definite callout for what's acceptable and what's not. I don't recall the numbers but a knowledgeable tech should know them or be able to get them and perform the test.

Also, visual inspection may turn up a reason to replace the FW. Maybe there's obviously damaged hardware, like cracks, or the ring gear's damaged, or some of the little tabs that the crank sensor use to detect position of crank and misfire conditions missing.

Your tech is right. It varies. Some car owners have the FW fail early, most of the time through no fault of their own (which I'm sure is the case in your situation) or through their fault due to misuse, abuse, mistreatment.

Take pics of the old FW and post.

Sincerely,

Macster.

Last edited by Macster; 03-12-2010 at 07:58 PM. Reason: Added...
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Old 03-12-2010, 10:35 PM
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for what it is worth. I am not sure if you have the same Duel Mass as my 99/996. But the car has 103K on it. I just did the IMS and clutch also, I cleaned the FW up really well with anything I could find that would cut it. Put it all back together and its fine. The clutch feels great
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:08 PM
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I dropped in at the shop and took a look at it. We pulled out a brand new LUK replacement for comparison. After the intial movement in the new FW, when you turn it in either direction, it "self centers" and regains it's original position.

On the FW from my car, it was easier to turn and did not return to it's original position.

We looked at the clutch though, and it looked really good.

The tech said, if the clutch was gone, it would be an easy suggestion to replace the FW with a lightweight variant, as they ship with the clutch. But since the clutch still looks within spec, it was up to me. Twice the price for the LW....

Considering all I am having done... I said stay with the dual mass. The deep sump kit is an option that is more attractive IF I take that extra step.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeBat View Post
I dropped in at the shop and took a look at it. We pulled out a brand new LUK replacement for comparison. After the intial movement in the new FW, when you turn it in either direction, it "self centers" and regains it's original position.

On the FW from my car, it was easier to turn and did not return to it's original position.

We looked at the clutch though, and it looked really good.

The tech said, if the clutch was gone, it would be an easy suggestion to replace the FW with a lightweight variant, as they ship with the clutch. But since the clutch still looks within spec, it was up to me. Twice the price for the LW....

Considering all I am having done... I said stay with the dual mass. The deep sump kit is an option that is more attractive IF I take that extra step.
Obviously your FW's dual mass feature no longer functional. Time to replace the FW.

I have read posts by at least one Porsche engine expert that IIRC cautions against using a lightweight flywheel. These engines do not have a crankshaft dampener. This function apparently is part of the dual mass FW's functionality.

If you take away the stock FW there's no crankshaft dampener function and I'm not sure that's a good thing for these engines.

Sincerely,

Macster.
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Old 03-15-2010, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Macster View Post
Obviously your FW's dual mass feature no longer functional. Time to replace the FW.

I have read posts by at least one Porsche engine expert that IIRC cautions against using a lightweight flywheel. These engines do not have a crankshaft dampener. This function apparently is part of the dual mass FW's functionality.

If you take away the stock FW there's no crankshaft dampener function and I'm not sure that's a good thing for these engines.

Sincerely,

Macster.
Interesting. I guess my budget led me to a possibly better decision then my heart would have.
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Old 03-15-2010, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by MikeBat View Post
Interesting. I guess my budget led me to a possibly better decision then my heart would have.
Read this thread in the 996 forum:

Is LWFW safe after LN Bearing retro fit?

I think this is a link to the thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=46040

Sincerely,

Macster.
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Old 03-15-2010, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Macster View Post
Read this thread in the 996 forum:

Is LWFW safe after LN Bearing retro fit?

I think this is a link to the thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...ferrerid=46040

Sincerely,

Macster.
Again, great post.

The cons of the LWFW are outweighing the pros in this application.... for myself personally.

It seems that while adding racier parts to a street car at a piecemeal pace is once again proving itself to produce mixed results.

An old adage rears its head.....Either buy and integrated comprehensive performance package, or a purpose built car to start with.
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Old 03-19-2010, 05:28 PM
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Update:

IMS bearing, and RMS seals replaced. New flywheel, Pagid Yellows and new fluid, and two new CV boots....

Much more then I wanted to spend... but...piece of mind and regular maintenance are worth it.

For the record, after removal and inspection, my original IMS was in perfect condition, but the IMS and RMS were sweating a bit of oil, which collected in the bell housing. Not a drop of oil ever fell on my garage floor.

I guess, in my case, track driving, and frequent oil changes/maintenance can claim to be a recipe for a healthy IMS.

now... if I can sqeeze the lemon any more and afford those new track-only wheels.....
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