cmoss

Shoulda--Woulda--Coulda

The market is what the market is. If you need to sell/want to buy, the reason is pretty much meaningless. This is true for ANY car.

Observation:
Depreciation allows me to buy "more" car for a given amount of money.

Cheers,
Chris

fpena944

I don't understand what all the fuss is about?

A Porsche is a Porsche right?

Who cares which is better or which is worth more as long as it suits our needs and our budgets?

Me personally, I like the Boxster, true I see too many of them on the streets everyday but I bet during it's heyday the 944 was probably in a similar situation.

So why did I choose the 944 Cabrio instead? Well price was one and believe it or not the fact that it has 2 1/2 seats helped influence my decision as well (Porsche calls it 2+2 seating but that's not quite true!)

But not everyone wants a 15 year old car and having a warranty sure does solve a lot of unforeseen headaches.

So bottom line is 944, Boxster, or even that Porsche tractor I saw at Hershey -- they all rock!

Red1

IMHO, one thing boxsters and 944s share is first-time porsche buyers. Boxsters will depreciate just like any other car, and they'll get to a point where condition is a greater factor in value than age. 944s will continue to get more scarce, as the low cost of entry is swallowed by the maintenance costs. People just won't be inclined to fix them after awhile. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a 914 commuting through traffic? I think it's great they're building so many boxsters. It means lots of options down the road for those of us who can't justify a new car note on a Sunday car.

I think some 944 guys are a little sensitive. That we look upon ourselves as enthusiasts, while the new boxster crowd (frequently) doesn't seem to know a 951 from a 964. We wave at boxsters, only to be stared at in return. If acknowledged at all. I've said this before: I have NEVER been flashed or waved at by a boxster. I saw four just yesterday. Same sad story. It just seems from my perspective that the vast majority of 986 buyers are not into cars, but want a PORSCHE. I'm hoping that as time goes on, these people will turn in their leased cars, and then we'll see more enthusiasts driving used 986s. I'm not saying all 986 drivers are non-enthusiasts. Of course, you're out there. It's strictly just from my cheap seats the view is "986-enthusiast" is an oxymoron. With rare exceptions.

Wow, sorry for the rant. Slow day.

You may commence flaming.......NOW!

autobahnNY

Red1,very true.I have a Boxster S,actually my second Boxster.I still havent received a wave or flash from a Boxster.I hate the idea of Boxster owners being put into the "posers" category,but its true.Actually it wasnt that bad when i first bought my boxster in early 99',but now there all over the place. The Boxster(S) is truly a great peformer.This car gets a bad wrap,"Poser","Girl car",it amazes me.I guess its due to the new breed of Porsche owners.

Red1

To me, an S owner is probably going to be a little different category. I've always felt S owners were enthusiasts. Most of them, anyway. I just have difficulty identifying S models on the road.

I definitely feel the S models will be highly sought after on the used market, and they will command a premium for years to come. Just like 944 turbos.

NetManiac

Spoken like a true Porschephile fpena944. When I hang out with the guys/gals in my club I hang with Porsche owners (not model specific owners). We end up talking about a) how we *could* have taken that corner faster if... b) how cool each others car are, or c) how cool it would be to own/drive p-car XXX. I can't remember a single instance one of us down-talking the others car in any way shape or form. Oh sure there's a little razing, "you waterpumpers..." or "Boxster and 914 guys will just need to turn the wheel and hold on..." The only time I see people down-talking some other Porsche model is here on the boards. I got into it a couple times when I first started visiting. But now it's old! Who cares? We all drive 'em and enjoy 'em in our own individualistic way.

I'm still trying to figure out what the real issue is. The Boxster/S is Porsche's current entry level sports car. Just like the 944/951 was in the '80's, and the 914/914-6 were in the '70's. Are they going to take very similar lifecycle paths? I'm sure they will. What's the problem with that? I have yet to see any 914 owner in here (maybe they are in the 944 board and that is what is upsetting all these 944 owners?) touting that the Boxster will go the way of the 914.

I am leasing my Boxster. Does that make me a poser (as if I cared what you thought)? I have my reasons for leasing and wanting my Boxster. Do I have to justify them to you? Hmmmmm... I'm thinking no!

There were issues mentioned about space. I'm 6'3" and I fit in my 2 seater just fine. In fact, since I learned what my driving position should be, there is actually a little space behind the seat. I drive my car,I don't cruise it. Do I need more space? Nope! Do you? I don't really know, or care.

I'll just leave you with this final thought: I suppose when the 944 first came out there were no posers driving them at all? Had leasing been as popular (or even available???) back then, I'm sure there would have been just as many, if not more "posers leasing" 944's and 951's. I mean after all the '80's were more image oriented and all about having to have just the right look.

/net

NetManiac

Red: S's are pretty easy to recognize on the road. From the front you can see the third (middle) air intake, from the side you can (usually) see the bright red Carrera calipers, from the rear it's the dual round (vs. single oval) exhaust. At least that's how I tell. Of course your screwed if someone did the "S" look to their regular .

/net

adsc4s

NetManiac, I could not agree with you more. We are all very fortunate to be able to own a P-car. 914, 924, 944, 964, 986, 911, 993, 996, 997, whatever.

Red1

NetManiac:
If you took offense to my comment about leased cars, please reconsider. It was not meant as an affront to an enthusiast who has leased their car. Rather that the poser crowd is typically leasing the current flavor of popular cars. Sorry if I was unclear. I put my real name on this board. Unlike a lot of people. I won't post anything I wouldn't be willing to tell you in person. Not here to make enemies. You can take offense at my comments if you'd like to, but that's not my intent.
I knew about the air intake difference, and the brakes. From the rear I'm usually checking the deck for the S. It's just that almost always the car has passed by before I know one way or the other. I didn't know the difference in exhaust, but I guess that might be the easiest thing for someone to upgrade.

sybelix

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">
<strong> We are all very fortunate to be able to own a P-car. 914, 924, 944, 964, 986, 911, 993, 996, 997, whatever.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica"><img border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" title="" src="graemlins/bigok.gif" />
I've driven the 986S and liked it.
I've driven the Cayenne S and liked it..
Been in a 996 GT3 and liked it.
I've owned for over six years an n/a 944 '88 and liked it.
Currently have an -90 951 and I LIKE IT.

So see my point. P-cars rule, no matter what model !!! <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

Wade B

Regardless of the (subjective) opinions about which car is better to have, the characteristics of the people who own them, my dad can beat up your dad, etc., some of the points raised through all these pages are finally getting toward answers to the original question of the 986 becoming the new 944 or my interpretation/paraphrase, will the 986 suffer the same fate as the 944 ? All of Porsche's titled "entry level cars" (an oxymoron as all of us owners know, compared to similar titles from other brands) were introduced loosely within a decade of each other, and mirrored how difficult it is in certain economic/political times to be a company that only produces sports cars (see "1973 Arab Oil Embargo","early 80's recession", "thriving mid-90's economy=record non-sports car and SUV sales").They had to do something to keep themselves on the radar screen (also see, "Cayenne") and with the so called lower entry prices, adjusted per each decade of course, came INCREASED PRODUCTION NUMBERS, which I think you'll find is the basis, pro or con, for asking the question in the first place. These increased numbers affected 944 resale values almost immediately, and now that there aren't waiting lists for 986's are starting to do the same for them. As we all know desirability and rarity affect price, and if even grandma down the street has one, then...............? I know it doesn't pertain to the original question, but the pros and cons of owning whatever cars are what makes interesting conversation when you do talk to other owners, hopefully not in a condescending fashion. I have owned many different P-cars and that has helped me to decide on the ones that I own today. But honestly, the situations under which they were created, or bought, or sold had less to do with my decisions than what it felt like once I got behind the wheel for a while. I love my cars and respect the others who own them because I consider them a different breed for choosing to do the same. Carpe diem.

NetManiac

Red: I don't think it was your comment that irritated me. I wasn't directing my comments at anyone in particular. In fact I don't even recall what you said about leased Boxsters, or at least that you had said it. What came across to me in this thread, and the thread like in the 944 forum that is that "if you lease your Porsche you must be a poser..." and what was implied, but not stated (I don't think) was "...because a real enthusiast would surely buy his/her p-car." It also appeared to me, and possibly other Boxster owners that if they bought their p-car new rather than used they were also a poser.

It would not be unheard of in this forum that some people took your comments and ran in a completely different direction. Yeah, that would be new, wouldn't it?

Actually, the easiest thing for a regular Boxster to upgrade and look like and S is the calipers. You can get the red paint at the dealer for a couple bucks, spend a couple hours on a Sat. afternoon, and viola you have the Carrera calipers (at least from a distance). But the exhaust is probably easier to replace than the front airdam. But I could be convinced otherwise.

I do admit that it can be difficult to tell an S from a regular from a distance. But on the other hand it never really mattered, I wave and/or flash anyway.

Sorry Red, I guess I just assumed you were like most of the other 944/951 guys that I saw contributing to these threads, who have their head stuck so far in 944dom that they don't have a clue Porsche is still in business and making other models. Guess that was an incorrect and inaccurate generalization on my part (that never happens on this forum either).

Please note that I am not really offended as you say. I am slightly annoyed, and at the same time appreciative. I appreciate that I live in an area where the PCA is full of high quality Porsche enthusiasts and they don't dwell on such trivial garbage. I'm annoyed because it should be obvious to everyone here, that anyone, no matter their model, who spends time on Rennlist should be considered, and respected as, an enthusiast. Anyone that is an actual poser would either not visit the site, or not stick around long enough to read posts on such topics. So the only people those 944/951 enthusiasts are insulting by their comments are Porsche enthusiasts (please be sure to note the subtle differentiation I make in that statement).

Do I have a problem with you knowing how I am? Nope, not at all. Will I tell you just so you can feel comfortable that my posts are valid and meaningful? Nope! You must learn the ways of the 'net. It's an anonymous would out here, the sooner you get used to it and learn to deal with it the better off you will be. ...Oh, I'm sorry, did I just make another off handed generalization without taking the time and effort necessary to learn what I was talking about? Man, I must stop doing that... What a bad little Boxster poser... I mean owner... I am!

/net

special tool

Oh boy, another arguement on the nerd forum.
Seriously - don't you wonder why people who work on these cars don't participate in these debates??
Especially since Ferdinand designed the VW for Hitler before he made a 356.

<img border="0" alt="[bigbye]" title="" src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Red1

Net,
I've got nothing to hide. I wasn't implying you were. Agreed, written words can be misconstrued. I apologize for any slight you thought I intended for you or any other porsche owner. It was not my intention.

I didn't see any boxsters tonight. Only one 996 cab, and he was too busy with his cell phone to notice anyone around him. Oh well, nice car though.

All well and good? Ok, I'll go away now.

GeoffD

The answer is yes! They built a whole load of 944's in the 80's. They've built a whole load of Boxster's in the 90's/00's. Once the Boxsters have come off leases and are freed from the people who don't wave, they will be gobbled up by enthusiast's who, in 2015, will be carping at the owners of the new generation 989's as poseurs and not Porscephiles.

By the way, I have a 924S (close enough to a 944) and a 2002 Boxster and I love them both.