Boxster - Haters and Doubters - don't read
03-17-2004, 12:39 PM
#16
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Originally posted by agentpennypacker
Paul-
Again, the 3.6 in a Boxster and a 996, the 996 gets better track times. It's a better handling car for someone who can't push both cars to their limits. If you mean "better handling" by ease of use, then you are correct because my 986S was the easiest car I've ever driven (fast).
Also, your 2.5 tiptronic wouldn't touch a 964 tiptronic. In fact, the 2.5 is probably the slowest Porsche I've driven next to a NA 944. Recheck your facts.
Popular? Yes, because of Porsche's mystique which is quickly losing credibility. Also, give me 10 similarities between the 550 and the boxster. Besides the fact that it is mid engine roadster, there isn't much more one could say about it.
Paul-
Again, the 3.6 in a Boxster and a 996, the 996 gets better track times. It's a better handling car for someone who can't push both cars to their limits. If you mean "better handling" by ease of use, then you are correct because my 986S was the easiest car I've ever driven (fast).
Also, your 2.5 tiptronic wouldn't touch a 964 tiptronic. In fact, the 2.5 is probably the slowest Porsche I've driven next to a NA 944. Recheck your facts.
Popular? Yes, because of Porsche's mystique which is quickly losing credibility. Also, give me 10 similarities between the 550 and the boxster. Besides the fact that it is mid engine roadster, there isn't much more one could say about it.
If you blew up your boxster you must be a really crap driver because we have boxsters here in the UK that have been tracked and have done 100k plus miles.Learn how to drive properly or sell your car and get a moped
The boxster is not the fastest Porsche but it is a totally adequate car.
Paul
03-17-2004, 12:48 PM
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Originally posted by Daytona24
Hey Dakar, \
Haha, if the Boxster layout is so much "better" than the 911 layout, then why don't they race the... BOXSTER instead of the 911? And don't give me that "so they can sell more 911s" crap - Porsche has faced stiff competition throughout the years, and any advantage they saw, they would use.
Could it be that you simply don't have the skill to drive a 911 properly, and they Boxster is faster for you because it's so damn easy to drive? Look, I've driven a few Boxsters, including a Boxster S at Sebring - it's a fun car no doubt, but I'm much faster in the turns in my 911 - Agentpennypacker hit the nail on the head when he said "The 911 Factor" - it does exist, and if you have the skill to drive the 911 properly, you would know what I mean.
And by the way, the 2.5 Boxster is pitifully low on power - honestly, there are minivans I think accelerate faster, that is unacceptable for a $40k+ car these days. Yes the 2.7 has a bit more grunt, but is still pathetic for what you're paying. Does anyone have a problem with the fact that a 2.7 Boxster would have its *** handed to it on the track by a totally stock C5 Vette? They're the SAME PRICE PEOPLE - obviously the 986 is far more refined, but the performance differential is too much to ignore.
Oh and as far as quality is concerned, Dakar, you are delusional. Anyone else who thinks the Boxster/996 quality is on par with the old Porsches, you're also a plain idiot. Are you freaking serious Dakar? Hahaha, close your eyes and close the 986 door, you can't tell if you're dealing with a Hyandai or a Boxster. When you feel the solidity of the 993, there is no doubt what you're dealing with - a real 911. And the interior quality, don't even start - Agentpennypacker says his Boxster S interior was ratted out and the leather was worn after 30k miles!!!! And the leather does feel very thin and cheap, stop kidding yourself Dakar, you paid top dollar for nothing more than average quality. The old Porsches were built to last - the new generation are disposable, just like a Honda or any other modern econo-car. And it's a real shame.
Greg Manders
Hey Dakar, \
Haha, if the Boxster layout is so much "better" than the 911 layout, then why don't they race the... BOXSTER instead of the 911? And don't give me that "so they can sell more 911s" crap - Porsche has faced stiff competition throughout the years, and any advantage they saw, they would use.
Could it be that you simply don't have the skill to drive a 911 properly, and they Boxster is faster for you because it's so damn easy to drive? Look, I've driven a few Boxsters, including a Boxster S at Sebring - it's a fun car no doubt, but I'm much faster in the turns in my 911 - Agentpennypacker hit the nail on the head when he said "The 911 Factor" - it does exist, and if you have the skill to drive the 911 properly, you would know what I mean.
And by the way, the 2.5 Boxster is pitifully low on power - honestly, there are minivans I think accelerate faster, that is unacceptable for a $40k+ car these days. Yes the 2.7 has a bit more grunt, but is still pathetic for what you're paying. Does anyone have a problem with the fact that a 2.7 Boxster would have its *** handed to it on the track by a totally stock C5 Vette? They're the SAME PRICE PEOPLE - obviously the 986 is far more refined, but the performance differential is too much to ignore.
Oh and as far as quality is concerned, Dakar, you are delusional. Anyone else who thinks the Boxster/996 quality is on par with the old Porsches, you're also a plain idiot. Are you freaking serious Dakar? Hahaha, close your eyes and close the 986 door, you can't tell if you're dealing with a Hyandai or a Boxster. When you feel the solidity of the 993, there is no doubt what you're dealing with - a real 911. And the interior quality, don't even start - Agentpennypacker says his Boxster S interior was ratted out and the leather was worn after 30k miles!!!! And the leather does feel very thin and cheap, stop kidding yourself Dakar, you paid top dollar for nothing more than average quality. The old Porsches were built to last - the new generation are disposable, just like a Honda or any other modern econo-car. And it's a real shame.
Greg Manders
I do agree with you however about the build quality my 964 was much better built. Greg if you cant get any fun out of a boxster youve got some problems.
Paul
03-17-2004, 01:57 PM
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Production 911's were designed from the get-go as GT cars. The minature back seat might be a hint ...
I have a 911 specifically because the Boxster is down on power. In today's hp wars that relative lack shows up quickly on all cars. Note that the C6 Z06 will have over 10% more hp that the current 911 TT.
I appreciate cars that do things well and with style, whether it's a Porsche, a Corvette, a G35, a BMW, a WRX, or even a Subaru Baja Turbo! It's nice that on the boards for most marques you can see people appreciating other cars for their strengths and the enjoyment they offer, instead of ...
BTW, I have seen a number of threads argueing about whether or not the 986/996 is truely a dry-sump. I'm not able to answer that question defintively, but I do know that most of the cars you see on the track do not have dry-sump engines. BMW's for example, both drive well and race successfully without a dry-sump. If there's a specific problem then perhaps it needs to be addressed. I know that the e36 M3's in street form had problems with oil starvation, which could be corrected with a different oil pan (though many people just run an extra quart of oil in them to counteract it).
Have a great day!
I have a 911 specifically because the Boxster is down on power. In today's hp wars that relative lack shows up quickly on all cars. Note that the C6 Z06 will have over 10% more hp that the current 911 TT.
I appreciate cars that do things well and with style, whether it's a Porsche, a Corvette, a G35, a BMW, a WRX, or even a Subaru Baja Turbo! It's nice that on the boards for most marques you can see people appreciating other cars for their strengths and the enjoyment they offer, instead of ...
BTW, I have seen a number of threads argueing about whether or not the 986/996 is truely a dry-sump. I'm not able to answer that question defintively, but I do know that most of the cars you see on the track do not have dry-sump engines. BMW's for example, both drive well and race successfully without a dry-sump. If there's a specific problem then perhaps it needs to be addressed. I know that the e36 M3's in street form had problems with oil starvation, which could be corrected with a different oil pan (though many people just run an extra quart of oil in them to counteract it).
Have a great day!
03-17-2004, 02:05 PM
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Oh, and btw, I paid a little over 50% of the original sticker for my car when it was 4 years old. If you look at industry statistics you'll find that's about average. Used late-model cars are just being hammered recently. I was happy with that as it was so heavily optioned and had only 17K miles. But of course that was before you guys explained the facts to me. Oh, well, good thing it drives so well and looks so great ... I guess I'll just have to suffer through another day in it.
03-17-2004, 02:35 PM
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Wow Dove, you sure seem to know a lot about my driving abilities. I would love for you to come down here to Sebring and see if you're still so belligerent after a couple laps in my passenger seat.
You are the typical new Porsche owner - a jackass.
You'll fool yourself into believing the boxster is as good as the old cars, and defend it even if it goes against the obvious facts. And by the way, yes the 911 is much harder to drive fast than a boxster. But when driven right it is faster, plain and simple. That's why it's so rewarding, it demands driver skill - which I'm sure is why you moved on to a boxster, which has no such requirements.
And I didn't say the boxster wasn't fun, I think it's a very fun street car. However I like my Porsches to stand up to track use also. And by the way, you keep mentioning how it's "BASED OFF THE 550 Sypder" Uh, where the hell did you get that idea? Because Porsche advertizes it as the new spyder? Boy, you bit into that one hook line and sinker... Just because it's mid engined and has two seats doesn't make it true to the 550. The 550 was a street legal race car, no frills. The Boxster is a luxury street touring car, that was NEVER intended to be raced competetively, and has cupholders. I don't see where you draw the similarities, you really are delusional.
And yes, it is down on power. Why is that so hard to admit? The new freaking Honda Accord has 240bhp, and does 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Now I also agree, it's not only about the numbers - but COME ON!!! Why can a family car out-accelerate your brand new Porsche "sportscar?" Face the facts - 5 seconds 0-60 isn't that fast, my 85 Carrera track car does that and has a modest 230bhp. It's slow, plain and simple. If you think 6.7 seconds in your boxster is fast, MY GOD, maybe you should consider a sex change.
You are the typical new Porsche owner - a jackass.
You'll fool yourself into believing the boxster is as good as the old cars, and defend it even if it goes against the obvious facts. And by the way, yes the 911 is much harder to drive fast than a boxster. But when driven right it is faster, plain and simple. That's why it's so rewarding, it demands driver skill - which I'm sure is why you moved on to a boxster, which has no such requirements.
And I didn't say the boxster wasn't fun, I think it's a very fun street car. However I like my Porsches to stand up to track use also. And by the way, you keep mentioning how it's "BASED OFF THE 550 Sypder" Uh, where the hell did you get that idea? Because Porsche advertizes it as the new spyder? Boy, you bit into that one hook line and sinker... Just because it's mid engined and has two seats doesn't make it true to the 550. The 550 was a street legal race car, no frills. The Boxster is a luxury street touring car, that was NEVER intended to be raced competetively, and has cupholders. I don't see where you draw the similarities, you really are delusional.
And yes, it is down on power. Why is that so hard to admit? The new freaking Honda Accord has 240bhp, and does 0-60 in 6.1 seconds. Now I also agree, it's not only about the numbers - but COME ON!!! Why can a family car out-accelerate your brand new Porsche "sportscar?" Face the facts - 5 seconds 0-60 isn't that fast, my 85 Carrera track car does that and has a modest 230bhp. It's slow, plain and simple. If you think 6.7 seconds in your boxster is fast, MY GOD, maybe you should consider a sex change.
Last edited by Daytona24; 03-18-2004 at 11:45 AM.
03-17-2004, 02:41 PM
#21
Dakar-
OK, you just proved another point: The mass DEPRECIATION of the "new" Porsche. Goes back to the quality issues, mass numbers, etc. See GM's message(s)...
I believe that Greg said that the boxster WAS INDEED a fun car, just not made to the Porsche of yesterday's quality and not track worthy. Which brings up the point of my S falling apart after 3 HARD track days. Some people don't drive these cars hard enough at the DE's to create a problem, very understandable. I know this - I've passed brand new 996's in the carousel at Sebring before putting around in the stock 250 hp S - OBVIOUSLY not driving their cars anywhere near the limit. The Boxster is an EASY car to drive, and is great in the hands of the amateur, and very fun in 4 wheel drift. Once you can drive a car that is out of control, you can graduate to the 911 and use it to its capabilities. I've owned 9 Porsches at this point at my age of 24 (911 E, 944, 951, 951S, 911SC, 911 3.2, 964, Am. Roadster, Boxster S), and have been in it for one reason: The track.
By the way: Your facts are off - you said TIPTRONIC 2.5 boxster, not manual. The manual is a bit qucker than the tip - and YES, it is still a VERY slow track car due to its soft suspension/weight to power ration, and wouldn't touch a 964 on the track any day - not with me in the car at least. If you are ever around for a SE USA event, let me know and I'll go out and show you.
Gentlemen, IF THESE CARS WERE MADE WELL FOR THE TRUE ENTHUSIAST (like myself, Andy Treakner and Greg Manders), I WOULD STILL OWN MINE AND I'M SURE THEY'D STILL HAVE ONE TOO. I know of several people in my area (Tampa Bay Area) with similar problems at Sebring, it's not an isolated incident by any means.
Believe me, I loved my Boxster S, and was ready to drop a 3.6 in it and keep it for life. After looking at my $3,200 in repairs and WORN driver's seat (by the way was wiped down with lexol bi weekly and garaged), I just couldn't write the check for it.
And I'm spent...
OK, you just proved another point: The mass DEPRECIATION of the "new" Porsche. Goes back to the quality issues, mass numbers, etc. See GM's message(s)...
I believe that Greg said that the boxster WAS INDEED a fun car, just not made to the Porsche of yesterday's quality and not track worthy. Which brings up the point of my S falling apart after 3 HARD track days. Some people don't drive these cars hard enough at the DE's to create a problem, very understandable. I know this - I've passed brand new 996's in the carousel at Sebring before putting around in the stock 250 hp S - OBVIOUSLY not driving their cars anywhere near the limit. The Boxster is an EASY car to drive, and is great in the hands of the amateur, and very fun in 4 wheel drift. Once you can drive a car that is out of control, you can graduate to the 911 and use it to its capabilities. I've owned 9 Porsches at this point at my age of 24 (911 E, 944, 951, 951S, 911SC, 911 3.2, 964, Am. Roadster, Boxster S), and have been in it for one reason: The track.
By the way: Your facts are off - you said TIPTRONIC 2.5 boxster, not manual. The manual is a bit qucker than the tip - and YES, it is still a VERY slow track car due to its soft suspension/weight to power ration, and wouldn't touch a 964 on the track any day - not with me in the car at least. If you are ever around for a SE USA event, let me know and I'll go out and show you.
Gentlemen, IF THESE CARS WERE MADE WELL FOR THE TRUE ENTHUSIAST (like myself, Andy Treakner and Greg Manders), I WOULD STILL OWN MINE AND I'M SURE THEY'D STILL HAVE ONE TOO. I know of several people in my area (Tampa Bay Area) with similar problems at Sebring, it's not an isolated incident by any means.
Believe me, I loved my Boxster S, and was ready to drop a 3.6 in it and keep it for life. After looking at my $3,200 in repairs and WORN driver's seat (by the way was wiped down with lexol bi weekly and garaged), I just couldn't write the check for it.
And I'm spent...
03-17-2004, 02:56 PM
#22
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Originally posted by dakar34
Oh, and btw, I paid a little over 50% of the original sticker for my car when it was 4 years old. If you look at industry statistics you'll find that's about average. Used late-model cars are just being hammered recently. I was happy with that as it was so heavily optioned and had only 17K miles. But of course that was before you guys explained the facts to me. Oh, well, good thing it drives so well and looks so great ... I guess I'll just have to suffer through another day in it.
Oh, and btw, I paid a little over 50% of the original sticker for my car when it was 4 years old. If you look at industry statistics you'll find that's about average. Used late-model cars are just being hammered recently. I was happy with that as it was so heavily optioned and had only 17K miles. But of course that was before you guys explained the facts to me. Oh, well, good thing it drives so well and looks so great ... I guess I'll just have to suffer through another day in it.
As for racing and the 911 being all that, an old *** 951 will smoke most 911's on the track, they are cheap to purchase and are Easy & Cheap to mod to 300Hp. Nothing like getting stomped by a RedHeaded Step child that cost way less then 911 of the same age.
I remember when I got my 944, 911 owners hated those too... Just as they did the 914 before it, now both these cars are sought after.
The reason I posted the orginal artical was to watch the 911 guys get all huffy and puffy about the Boxster getting all the attention. Then they start with there wisdom about the Boxster, that is when I really start to laugh.
The loudest of the anti-Boxster bunch are usally the youngest of the bunch, and will most likely tell you they know more about Porsches then anyone else. After all they have the most driving experience, don't they?
Would I own a 911... I sure would!!! I like all Porsche cars, even the Boxster. *wink*
03-17-2004, 03:02 PM
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Haha what does age have to do with DRIVING EXPERIENCE VAMPYRE, you are a moron - I guess using your rationale, Michael Schumacher isn't as good a driver as you because he's younger, right? Haha, maybe us younder drivers **** you off because we embarass your slow *** at the track... I remember my first year of club racing, all the older guys thought they had something to teach me. Of course that all stopped when I beat them weekend after weekend. Maybe you're just getting soft in your old age - at least us young guys still know what Porsche used to stand for - enjoy your Ensure for lunch this morning Vampyre.
Last edited by Daytona24; 03-18-2004 at 11:45 AM.
03-17-2004, 03:11 PM
#24
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Originally posted by Daytona24
Haha what does age have to do with DRIVING EXPERIENCE VAMPYRE, you are a moron - I guess using your rationale, Michael Schumacher isn't as good a driver as you because he's younger, right? Haha, maybe us younder drivers **** you off because we embarass your slow *** at the track... I remember my first year of club racing, all the older guys thought they had something to teach me. Of course that all stopped when I beat them weekend after weekend. Maybe you're just getting soft in your old age - at least us young guys still know what Porsche used to stand for - enjoy your Ensure for lunch this morning Vampyre.
Greg
Haha what does age have to do with DRIVING EXPERIENCE VAMPYRE, you are a moron - I guess using your rationale, Michael Schumacher isn't as good a driver as you because he's younger, right? Haha, maybe us younder drivers **** you off because we embarass your slow *** at the track... I remember my first year of club racing, all the older guys thought they had something to teach me. Of course that all stopped when I beat them weekend after weekend. Maybe you're just getting soft in your old age - at least us young guys still know what Porsche used to stand for - enjoy your Ensure for lunch this morning Vampyre.
Greg
Hooked ya..
I didn't even use that much baitCome on Greg - no comment on the 911 killer aka 951
03-17-2004, 03:17 PM
#25
That is funny - Especially knowing that I PURCHASED and TRACKED a Boxster S.
Okay, let's compare apples to apples here. You say a 951 S would burry most 911's - yes, exactly, except a 911 Turbo. I know a modified 930 that puts the GT2's to shame. I owned a 951 S that had about 385 rear wheel HP (depending on what I dialed in). I loved it, probably more than my 986S. Sure, it wasn't a 911, but a FAST HIGH QUALITY PORSCHE. Back to the other point - yes, it was VERY fast, but the 930 out handles it hands down. Again, better braking and handling - Look at what has won worldwide in professional racing...it's that way for a reason.
By the way, I may be young but I'm not ignorant. Defending a car simply because you own it, or better yet, pretending to be a track guy is even worse. They remind me of one of those guys with the University of Phoenix Online MBA...
Driving that "prize" 996 cab around is a lot like wearing the fake Rolex. I shouldn't have to explain myself.
Okay, let's compare apples to apples here. You say a 951 S would burry most 911's - yes, exactly, except a 911 Turbo. I know a modified 930 that puts the GT2's to shame. I owned a 951 S that had about 385 rear wheel HP (depending on what I dialed in). I loved it, probably more than my 986S. Sure, it wasn't a 911, but a FAST HIGH QUALITY PORSCHE. Back to the other point - yes, it was VERY fast, but the 930 out handles it hands down. Again, better braking and handling - Look at what has won worldwide in professional racing...it's that way for a reason.
By the way, I may be young but I'm not ignorant. Defending a car simply because you own it, or better yet, pretending to be a track guy is even worse. They remind me of one of those guys with the University of Phoenix Online MBA...
Driving that "prize" 996 cab around is a lot like wearing the fake Rolex. I shouldn't have to explain myself.
03-17-2004, 03:25 PM
#26
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Actually Vampyre, I like 951s - I've owned a very quick 951S and yes, it was faster around the track than my current Carrera. However, it also had about 50% more bhp. And by the way, you didn't "hook" me, I'm simply stating facts. If you can't handle the fact that some of us young guys are faster on the track, and more knowledgable in general about these cars, then get over it.
My birthday wish is to see any one of you Boxster lovers at Sebring this summer, especially you Vampyre. You'll know my car, because on my front bumper you'll see "MOVE OVER" in backwards lettering - so when you read it in your rearview, you know it's me about to pass you like you're riding a tricycle.
And the 951 is not a 911 killer moron, if that were the case, they would have raced them instead back in the day.
My birthday wish is to see any one of you Boxster lovers at Sebring this summer, especially you Vampyre. You'll know my car, because on my front bumper you'll see "MOVE OVER" in backwards lettering - so when you read it in your rearview, you know it's me about to pass you like you're riding a tricycle.
And the 951 is not a 911 killer moron, if that were the case, they would have raced them instead back in the day.
03-17-2004, 03:36 PM
#27
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Thread Starter
Originally posted by Daytona24
And the 951 is not a 911 killer moron, if that were the case, they would have raced them instead back in the day. [/B]
And the 951 is not a 911 killer moron, if that were the case, they would have raced them instead back in the day. [/B]
Lets post this to the 944 Board and see the repsonses.
And the fact is Greg, Yes I did hook you and your upset, if you really were not then you wouldn't be bitter.
I don't take offense to what you said, I think it is funny. You try so hard to put down the Boxster and yet I couldn't careless if you like it or not.
The way you keep posting in the BOXSTER Forum here and stating the same thing over and over tells me you must want a Boxster or you wouldn't be posting in the Boxster FORUM all the time.
As for racing you on a track... Which one of my cars did you want to lose too.
