Square

Hello,

I am interested in purchasing an early 986 Boxster S and I was wondering if there was a pre-purchase checklist that you guys could recommend? I am aware of the IMS issue, but I am less familiar with other common issues and would appreciate any thoughts you guys have.


Thank you for your time.

joseph mitro

search Macster and you'll find about everything you need to know

Macster

Here I'll save you the search effort... (well, you probably still want to search, for what follows is not the end all be all of what to look for when considering a used Boxster):
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Used Boxster Checkout:

The Boxster is just a used car so you should inspect/check everything.

My general advice is to visit the car cold. If you can check the engine oil level with the engine cold then do so. With my 2002 Boxster I could. The electronic oil level measurement system worked with the engine cold and of course there was a dipstick.

In the car start the engine. Be sure all warning lights come on and then go off once the engine has started. Pay particular attention to the CEL. Be sure the A/C is off. You test the A/C later.

Let the engine idle from cold. You want to listen for any signs of ticking/noises or any other signs the engine may not be healthy. A rough idle, backfires, spitting back, anything out of the ordinary.

Get out of the car and walk around the car checking body panel finish, alignment, and gaps. Note the condition of the wheels, looking for any curb rash. Check the tires.

Check the hood and trunk hinges for any signs the fasteners have had wrenches on them. Check the bolts that hold the front fenders to the car for any signs they have had a wrench on them.

Headlights and condensers — visible by getting down and peering inside the radiator ducts using a bright flash light — should have the same patina. A new headlight or new condenser could be a sign of accident damage repair.

If you spot trash in the radiator ducts budget to have the bumper cover removed and the trash cleaned out. It won’t affect cooling but can retain moisture which can lead to A/C condenser or radiator leaks due to corrosion.

Check the brake rotors for any signs of overheating, heavy scoring, cracking. If the lip around the outer edge of the rotor is about 1mm tall that’s a sign the rotor is about worn out and budget for at least an axle’s worth of brake job. Pads. Rotors. Other hardware, A brake (and if manual clutch) fluid flush and bleed.

Tires should be in reasonable condition, factory sanctioned — N numbered — and all the same brand, model of tire with the same N number.

After some few minutes -- the longer the better -- and with the engine still running ok and sounding ok have the seller take you on a test ride. The route should be around 15 miles long and chosen to give the driver a chance to demo the car as you intend to use it. What is wanted is a mix of city driving with stop and go, steady moderate speed cruising on like a boulevard, and some highway/freeway driving. Ideally there should be some opportunities -- once the engine is up to temperature -- for some rather hard acceleration with the driver starting out from a standstill or a slow roll and accelerating hard up through at least a couple of gears. No need to smoke the tires or try to duplicate the factory's 0 to 60mph time but you want to experience the engine under hard acceleration to verify it pulls good, runs right, and afterwards shows no ill effects from the hard acceleration.

As passenger of course pay attention to how the transmission shifts, how the car rides, feels. The car should not want to pull to one side or the other and the hard acceleration should give the driver a chance to perform a hard braking. No tire lock up but you want to verify the brakes have plenty of bite and the car tracks straight under hard braking.

After the 15 mile test ride then back at the starting point -- leaving the engine running -- get behind the wheel and drive the car over the same 15 mile test route and drive it pretty much the same way although since the car is unknown to you you can dial back on the hard acceleration test. You don't want to let the car get away from you and wrap it around a telephone pole.

Before you shut off the engine after the 15 mile test ride and 15 mile test drive it is not a bad idea to check if the readiness monitors are all set to complete. I have an OBD2 code reader/data viewer/logger than I can use to connect to the car and confirm all readiness monitor are set to complete. These being set to complete is a good sign the engine and its sensors are healthy.

After your 15 mile test drive then at the starting point if you still like the car confirm all systems work. From the head lights to the tail lights. The A/C. Check all the controls. The wipers. Everything.

You can arrange to show up with a proper Torx tool kit -- with bits with the "security" hole in the center -- to use to remove the Torx screws which hold the plastic panels in place that cover the area just ahead of the windshield on either side of the battery box. These panels cover the front body water drains. You want to verify these are free of any accumulation of trash --- plant litter mainly. If any is present this can block the draining of water and if water backs up it will overflow and make its way into the cabin. The security module is on the cabin floor under the driver seat and water in the cabin plays havoc with this module, ruins it.

You check the cabin carpets for any signs of dampness. Do not forget the doors. Each door has a membrane to keep the water out of the dry side of the door. The membrane will fail due to age and when it does water can get into the door/window electronics and cause all kinds of electrical gremlins. Or the water can leak out and inside the cabin. I found both my Boxster door carpets damp and had both door membranes replaced.

Have the seller open the top put it in "service position" and check the body water drains one on either side of the car under where the clam shell rests when the clam shell is closed.
At this point if you still like the car and believe you can buy it for a good price -- based on your market research -- it is good idea to arrange to have the car given a pre-purchase inspection (PPI) by a tech who is qualified to evaluate the car. A Porsche dealer tech can be used. These guys evaluate trade ins all the time.

This gets the car in the air so a check can be made for any leak sign. At the same time a check can be made for any signs of damage or damage repair.

You want to really experience the car in its natural state: engine running and on the road. All cars look good on the dealer’s lot. But it is how they look and run and feel and sound and smell on the road, or after being on the road, that really matters.

Be aware and adjust your price accordingly that the car probably needs some attention: Brake hydraulic system fluid flush/bleed (and if equipped with a manual transmission a clutch hydraulic system fluid flush/bleed too) is due every 2 years. (As aside while I have never noticed any problems with the brake system from letting this -- once -- my Boxster's clutch and transmission acted up. After a brake/clutch fluid flush and bleed the clutch was fine and so was the transmission: The clutch acting up was causing shifting problems with the transmission.) Engine oil/filter might be due. Tires at least rear ones with 15K miles could be close to needing replacement. I could get 20K miles out of a set of rear tires on both my Boxster and Turbo.

I have no recommendation regarding IMSB replacement. When this first became an issue that was beginning to be talked about my 2002 was about out of warranty. At the time there was no aftermarket (or Porsche) IMBS fix or "solution". I just decided I would continue to drive the car and take care of it and let the chips fall where they may. The car made it to 317K miles on its original IMSB. Had I kept the car I would have had the clutch done -- it was due based on how much effort it took to work the pedal -- and at the same time had the tech install a factory IMSB replacement. Not for any real fear for the bearing in the engine just for curiosity's sake to see what the old/original one looked like.

Remember these things: Price is not fact only an opinion. And there is always another car. If you find something negative about this car don't feel you have to buy it. There is another car out there you'll like just as much if not more than this one and it won't have any negatives.

mikefocke

Why would you even think you have the knowledge of the specific design and historical issues a Boxster has? I bought two Boxsters. The second after I crashed my first after driving it only 5 months. I had had no issues with it till my stupidity wrote it off.

So for my second Boxster and fifth sports car what did I do?

I looked at a car cosmetically. I drove it. And then I took it to the most knowledgeable Porsche mechanic I could find, one with Porsche cars in his shop in race car prep, engines being rebuilt on stands. And I paid for a PPI and I listened and learned and factored what he said into my price. I bought it. And promptly delivered it to that mechanic and said don't give it back until all the issues have been taken care of. That car was dead solid reliable for the next 5 years of my ownership and last I heard for the next 4 years as well.

My point is trust the expert with the great reputation and pay for his expertise. No checklist will substitute for someone who knows what to look for and what he is seeing and what the measurements mean. Take some of the risk of buying a 20 year old car.

They are wonderful.

Some other info is here.

Square

I would like to thank you all for your helpful information.

The car in question is a 2001 Boxster S that is being sold from a shop in Raleigh. N.C. that specializes in European repair and race prep work. They are about 3 hours from me, so I am trying to check as many things as I can before I move forward. I am certainly open to a PPI. The seller does offer a warranty, but I do not know all of what the warranty entails. I will be seeing the car tomorrow (Monday), so I will find out all the details then.

Thanks again!

Macster

A PPI as I mentioned is a good idea. The problem is PPI's come in all shapes/sizes. There seems to be a tendency now to charge a lot of money for this and reports are that the quality is often questionable. And not every Porsche offered for sale is within a convenient distance to a place that at least on the surface has the qualifications to provide a high confidence PPI.

My post is to help you identify a car that is worthy of a PPI. You don't want to PPI every car you look at for this can cost you a lot of money or possibly have you in a car you should not have bought if you go by the PPI alone.

Your checkout is to find a reason to reject the car *before* going to the expense of a PPI.

Primarily what I'd like to get from a PPI is the car in the air with a pair of experienced eyes looking the car to check for any leak sign. Part of the reason for the extended idle time and the test ride and test drive is to get the engine/drive train up to operating temperature. At this temperature leaks are more active. Thus the PPI can find a leaking water pump, RMS, camshaft covers, spark plug tubes/o-rings. The condition of the radiator hoses can be checked. Radiator leaks can be checked for. Signs of accident damage and repair of the undercarriage can be checked for. And so on.

The tech can also pull the engine run time from the engine controller. This divided into the odometer provides the average MPH for the car. Around 30mph is about average. A higher number can be a highway car. A smaller number a boulevard cruiser. Generally a low miles will have a lower average speed as it was not used for long trips but just cruising. A car with big miles can have an average speed above 30mph because the big miles were racked up on the highway/freeway.

Also, engine overrev counters can be obtained. This can show to what degree the engine was over revved and at what engine run time this last happened. When I have discussed this over rev business with Porsche techs they tell me they like to see at least an hour's run time from an engine that experienced an over rev event -- something over and above just bumping up against the rev limiter -- with the engine manifesting no signs of any issues. The check out I detail should have the engine running about an hour so even if the car was just over revved by a previous used car shopper you at least have an hour's run time on the engine and give it chance to manifest any signs of any issues from an over rev event.

Macster

Not clear the above is directed at me. If it is I make no claim to have any real knowledge of the design of the car other than what I picked up over the years prior to my buying one and after coupled with my direct experience with/exposure to some mechanical aspects of the car. As for historical issues I certainly owned a Boxster for a good number years and drove one for 317K miles and as a result gathered some experience with the model in dealing with or having a tech deal with these issues as they came up.

Plus over the years I certainly had a chance to discuss at length with some techs various aspects of the Boxster (and to a lesser extent other models) and pick up some things of interest/value which I try to pass on.

Yet I do state that my "buyer's guide" as it were is not the last/only word on these cars.

Not too put too fine a point on it but I think my info is a bit more useful than just expecting every Boxster want to be owner to have the same good luck you had when you bought your two cars with little real check out just relying upon gut feel or luck to have you end up with two good cars. If the OP is the type of person who just happens to be able to judge a car by its cover so to speak and end up with a good example that's fine by me. These cars are getting on in years and have probably been through the hands of more than just one owner. I'm not willing to risk my money on luck. At least not entirely. I prefer a good used car checkout and recommend anyone interested in one of these cars do the same unless as I touched upon above he is confident he can select a good car by some other means.

Shawn Stanford

Well, there you go: That's why you might want to use a checklist.

I've purchased two Boxsters. I had a PPI done on the first, and just drove the second. I've put a lot more time and effort into the second, but nothing catastrophic, just normal 100k, wear-out stuff. Suspension parts, CV boots, coils, spark plug tubes, AOS, like that.

What I've learned through owning both these cars for several years is:

1. Macster's list is great for someone who is generally familiar and comfortable with cars.
2. Aside from the rare truly catastrophic failure, there's little that can go wrong with these cars that can't be fixed in your driveway.

Hell, I'd even try doing a clutch/RMS/IMS in my driveway if I needed to.

However, I would recommend finding a good independent garage in your area. I have one and they're invaluable. They're happy to diagnose problems for me even if I don't have them fix it.

Good luck with your search!

Square

Hi All,

I saw the car today. It is in need of more things than I am comfortable taking on as a first Porsche purchase. If the price was right, I might want to take a chance, but at this point, I have chosen to wait/look for something that is a better fit for me.

Thanks again!

Square

duplicate

Shawn Stanford

What was wrong with it and what price did they give you?

Square

The car was sold yesterday. The price was $7995.

I have never owned a Porsche and did not buy the car because:

- No significant service records (car had 103K miles). The dealer had done an oil change and replaced a couple of items, and after that it was some CarFax service records from long, long ago.
- paint was pretty rough. Buffing would help, but there were many scratches that were beyond buffing.
- the plastic back window had a section of hot glue on it
- the center console lid was unattached
- the center console had about 6 of the plastic washer/retainers that hold trim in place, sitting in it ( I don't know where they were supposed to go)
- the passenger sun visor mirror cover fell off in my hand
- the front truck could only be opened by the pull cable behind the front grill
- the rear trunk support struts were weak (the dealer replaced the front trunk struts, but not the back?)
- I asked if there were any water leaks, they said they had not noticed any, but the car was in the showroom with a layer of dust on it and a cob web from the floor to the bottom of the car (had not been outside in a while)
- the wheels all had imperfections/curb rash and could use a refinish.
- the window micro switches that drop the windows when the doors are opened did not work on either side
- the door armrest trim on the driver side was pretty scratched up
- the passenger seat leather had 2 significant cracks in it
- both front and rear trunks needed to be vacuumed out (leaves, dirt, and pine straw in both)
- both Headlights (halogen style) had 2 brown burn marks on the round lense (was told this was normal)
- the outer headlight lenses needed to be polished
- The silver front bumper grills needed a touch up/respray
- There was a significant gap between the top of the front bumper center grill and the car
- The rear tires had 2010 date codes, the front tires had 2013 date codes
- The Ignition Key was difficult to turn from the off position to the first position

Basically, given the condition of what I could see and the lack of service records, I felt it was too much to take on as a first Porsche. I figured if what I could see was that unloved, then I should assume that everything I could not see was just as unloved. The car sold, and if you are familiar with the cars, and you either want to use it as a track vehicle or don't care about cosmetics, then it's $8K for a Boxster S, which is pretty cheap from what I have seen. I hope the new owner knows more about the cars than I do (or has a lot more money than me).

I would rather spend a bit more and get something that has been loved and do my best to keep it clean.

Shawn Stanford

Hmm. Based on the description, the ask was about $1k high. It sounds like a bunch of cosmetic and fiddly stuff that would be easy and cheap enough to fix, with the possible exception of the rear window. I take it you didn't start or drive the car.

To be brutally honest: I don't think you're the right guy to own a Porsche. The cars in your price range are 20+ years old, and they're going to have 100k miles or more. That's not a show-stopper, because they're great, reliable cars. But they need maintenance. If you're not willing to do that maintenance and you can't afford to have someone else do it, then you simply can't afford to own ANY Porsche.

I own four of them, and I do 95% of my own maintenance. If I wasn't willing to buy cheap and wrench, I could never afford them. That's true of every P-Car owner I know: They either do their own work, or they spend a pot full of money.

However, good for you for knowing what you can and can't get into. Better to walk away now than to get in a bind with a car you can't afford to own.

Square

Thank you for your candor.

The dealership was firm on the price and had the car in a position where they would need to move about 3 cars to get the Boxster outside. They were willing to let me drive it "If I was willing to do a deal today." So, I did not drive the car.

My logic was that since there was no service history, I would need to assume that I should plan to immediately change:
- IMS Bearing
- Rear Main seal
- Clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, pilot bearing (if applicable)
- change all fluids and filters
- replace tires

By the time I accounted for these items and then began on the cosmetic items, I would be several thousand dollars in parts & supplies, which would bring the actual cost of the car to $11K + (assuming I did most of the work). I decided that I can probably find a cleaner car, with records and a lot of those items addressed in that price range so I did not push the dealership for a test drive.

While I am willing do do my own work, I do not have any experience working on Porsches. Most of my experience is on Corvettes (C4, C5), BMW (E39, E46), and Mercedes (W210, W212), so I do not know if I if I am up to the challenge, but I would still like to find out.

I appreciate your advice and input.

mikefocke

I hadn't really done any work on my cars beyond changing the oil, tires and battery in decades. I did not find working on a Boxster to do the routine things to be impossible. It did take a couple of tools I did not have. There are also things I discovered could be done by a mechanic who doesn't charge Porsche prices...O2 sensor swap for example. I didn't do anything inside the engine but filters, belt, hoses, fluids, MAF etc were all trivial. Well documented on the 'net with videos. Parts were available and even OEM parts at a discount from Porsche dealer prices could be had. I had a cheap code reader that was generic for the one time in 5 years I threw a code. The only other problem was a seat buckle harness "short" which I let a dealer fix since there was a TSB involved.

I had the money to pay the dealer to do things, I just found it satisfying to do them myself.