99 Boxster Ticking Tap noise - Rennlist - Porsche Discussion Forums

Notices

99 Boxster Ticking Tap noise

Old 12-07-2018, 03:58 AM
  #1  
vza
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Default 99 Boxster Ticking Tap noise

Hi, 99 boxster base. Just buttoned up the engine after replacing chain ramps and vario solenoid, RMS,IMS,AOS. Well.. now I have a noticeable tick /tap which sounds like its coming from the cylinder head. I also never got any oil reading on the dipstick after adding almost 8 quarts of oil....where did it go? I ran the engine on and off for about 5 mins. Was afraid it might be a timing issue but was meticulous in checking and rechecking cam position and allocation so I'm hesitant to let it run for fear of doing any damage.(if it's not done already) Used Castrol 10w-40 synth blend. Very upset ….hope I didn't totally bend my engine all up. Any thoughts very much appreciated. v
vza is online now  
Old 12-09-2018, 01:47 PM
  #2  
Macster
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 17,622
Default

Originally Posted by vza View Post
Hi, 99 boxster base. Just buttoned up the engine after replacing chain ramps and vario solenoid, RMS,IMS,AOS. Well.. now I have a noticeable tick /tap which sounds like its coming from the cylinder head. I also never got any oil reading on the dipstick after adding almost 8 quarts of oil....where did it go? I ran the engine on and off for about 5 mins. Was afraid it might be a timing issue but was meticulous in checking and rechecking cam position and allocation so I'm hesitant to let it run for fear of doing any damage.(if it's not done already) Used Castrol 10w-40 synth blend. Very upset ….hope I didn't totally bend my engine all up. Any thoughts very much appreciated. v
The engine requires a bit over 9 quarts of oil for its initial filling. Almost 8 quarts is at least a quart shy of being full. The missing oil went to fill up all the various areas that contain oil that doesn't drain out during an oil change.

That 10w-40 oil is not an approved oil. The "10w" is too high a cold temperature viscosity index. Porsche approves a number of 0w-40, 5w-40 ols and even one 5w-50 oil. My advice is you use a 0w-40 oil. The "0w" low temperature viscosity index helps ensure sufficient oil flow/supply at cold start temperatures down to -25C and colder.

Drain the oil. Ideally because the engine is cold and I would not run it until it is hot with that 10w-40 oil in it, arrange to let the oil drain overnight, at least 12 hours.

Replace the filter. Be sure to fill the oil filter housing with fresh oil before you install the housing. Add 8 quarts of an approved oil. Count the bottles. Start the engine and let it idle a minute then shut it off and let it sit 12 hours and 24 is better. Then check the oil level using the dipstick if you want. It will probably read low. Add oil until the level shows up on the dipstick. Could take a quart maybe a bit more. You don't have to bring the cold oil level all the way to the full mark. When the engine and oil are up to temperature the oil level will rise up. With my Boxster when I checked the oil level cold I'd accept an oil level a bar or two below max. When I then checked the oil level with the engine up to temperature, but letting the engine sit a while -- 5 minutes or so - after shutting it off (such as was the case when stopping for gasoline) -- the oil level would be right at the max line.

You do not want to run the oil level low but you don't want to overfill the engine with oil either.

If the tick doesn't go away with the right oil in the engine and with the correct amount of oil you have problem. Now the tick doesn't have to be coming from inside the engine. Be sure all spark plugs are properly torqued. Be sure every coil is securely fastened and the connection to the plug and the wiring harness is good.

Be sure the exhaust manifolds are not leaking. An exhaust leak can make a "ticking" sound.

If you had the injectors out be sure they are all properly installed and the connections are all good.

Try to identify from where the noise is coming from.

A long shot but if the noise is present at cold start remove the serpentine belt and see if the noise is still present with the belt removed and the accessory drive system "disabled".

A mechanic's stethoscope is really helpful in these cases. If the noise is from under the camshaft cover a lifter is probably the source of the noise. Did you submerge each lifter in a pan of clean oil and using wooden dowel work the lifter to ensure the zero lash adjuster pumped up and got firm to the point you could not work the lifter anymore?

But the noise could be due to an internal oil leak that lets high pressure oil leak out under the camshaft cover and this can result in insufficient oil supply/pressure to one or more lifters and even camshaft bearings. That bead of sealant is critical to the proper assembly of the engine.

Address the oil type and quantity. If the noise is still present and you are sure it is coming from inside the engine then knowing as best you can from where the noise is coming from is your next step.
Macster is offline  
Old 12-09-2018, 06:35 PM
  #3  
vza
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Default

Thanks for the reply. I went ahead and drained the oil yesterday with 0w-40 but didn't drain it overnight or replace the filter(did it before your response) I measured and a little less than 8 quarts went back in.Started it and idled till operating temp. Noise seemed a little less but not sure. I did submerge the lifters (probably should have left them bee) but in the 10w-40 I worked each lifter with my finger ..some moved and produced a puff of dirty oil or an air bubble from the port, others seemed stiff and didn't move. Didn't spend that much time with them cause there was never a tick before. Could I have fouled them w heavier oil? Factory man says 10W-40 for temps above and below 50 F that's why I chose it. How do I check for leak at manifold ...the tick sounds like it's everywhere more so near the cams. I was worried I didn't properly time everything ...would the car be running if pistons were hitting valves. I mean is it an obvious difference than a valve tap? I want to be sure i'm not running the engine and bending everything up, I checked and rechecked the timing many times before proceeding. My 1st Porsche....hope I didn't trash it before I could enjoy it...at least once around the block. v
vza is online now  
Old 12-09-2018, 09:33 PM
  #4  
Brian in Tucson
User
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 136
Default

Nice response, Macster! VZA, heavier oil won't foul anything up. Use the oil spec that is mentioned in the owner's manual. I replaced my 01 engine last winter and when I started it, it ticked quite loudly. I kept the slightly heavier oil in and added a pint of Marvel Mystery Oil to free up the sticky lifter. Got home from an Italian tune up and the ticking had gone away. AFAK, MMO is the only oil additive that actually works.
Brian in Tucson is offline  
Old 12-10-2018, 01:06 PM
  #5  
Macster
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 17,622
Default

Originally Posted by vza View Post
Thanks for the reply. I went ahead and drained the oil yesterday with 0w-40 but didn't drain it overnight or replace the filter(did it before your response) I measured and a little less than 8 quarts went back in.Started it and idled till operating temp. Noise seemed a little less but not sure. I did submerge the lifters (probably should have left them bee) but in the 10w-40 I worked each lifter with my finger ..some moved and produced a puff of dirty oil or an air bubble from the port, others seemed stiff and didn't move. Didn't spend that much time with them cause there was never a tick before. Could I have fouled them w heavier oil? Factory man says 10W-40 for temps above and below 50 F that's why I chose it. How do I check for leak at manifold ...the tick sounds like it's everywhere more so near the cams. I was worried I didn't properly time everything ...would the car be running if pistons were hitting valves. I mean is it an obvious difference than a valve tap? I want to be sure i'm not running the engine and bending everything up, I checked and rechecked the timing many times before proceeding. My 1st Porsche....hope I didn't trash it before I could enjoy it...at least once around the block. v
I've never reused lifters. I've always replaced them with new along with the cam when I've had an engine apart.

For reusing lifters -- course this is too late to be of any help -- I'd put them -- one at a time you don't want to mix lifters up -- in a container of solvent and work them to get all the oil out and any dirt that the lifter might have collected over the years. However, this can open up a can of worms. The "dirt" is probably quite compacted and would not pose a problem otherwise. In cleaning the lifters if one doesn't get all the dirt out -- and there's no way of knowing all the dirt is out -- some dirt could come loose when the lifter is put back into service.

This is one reason why lifters generally are not reused.

Also, I have to mention I hope you kept each lifter with its lifter bore so it would go right back where it came from and work against the same cam lobe it has worked against since day #1.

You didn't foul the lifters with the oil. What I was thinking was the 10w-40 oil was not flowing to the cam/lifter oil galleys well.

(As an aside the info in the owners manual regarding oil is wrong. Porsche has issued since at least the early 2000's an approved oils list and only 0w-40, 5w-40 and at least one 5w-50 oil are approved. But not all 0w-40 and 5w-40 (or 5w-50) oils are approved. But you can't go wrong with Mobil 1 0w-40. This is the factor fill and the oil you should start out with. If later you want to move to a 5w-40 oil -- as long as it doesn't get real cold where you live and drive -- that's your call.)

I don't think the noise is from the valves hitting the pistons or really any cam timing issues. If the noise is everywhere around the camshaft area that suggests a lack of sufficient oil flow and pressure. There is an oil pressure port at one of the camshaft covers. I think you need to check the oil pressure to ensure it is within spec.

AFAIK based on my references Porsche doesn't call out a cold oil pressure only a hot oil pressure. But since the engine is not running right I think you are limited to a quick check of the cold oil pressure. Based on my 996 Turbo and its oil pressure gauge cold oil pressure should be at least 4 bar, 60+ PSI. (Thanks to the oil pressure display of my 2018 Hellcat I know engine oil pressure cold is a bit over 60PSI. This with a 0w-40 oil in the engine, but not Mobil 1.) At hot idle - though "hot" is a variable -- for the Turbo its hot oil pressure (I don't know the temperature) ranged from around 1.7bar (23+ PSI) on a really hot day to around 2bar on a milder day. For the Hellcat even with the oil temperature at 230F the idle oil pressure with the transmission in D is 38+ PSI. If I shift the transmission into neutral revs climb a bit and the hot oil pressure goes up a few PSI.
Macster is offline  
Old 12-10-2018, 07:33 PM
  #6  
vza
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Default

Thanks again for the reply. To the best of my knowledge I put them back where they were. I got a stethoscope on the engine and it sounds loud everywhere a little less towards the rear of the cam. It was also loud near the base of the trans bell. It was difficult for me to really hear a difference on different locations. I'll probably open the cam up again(ugh) and just replace all the lifters in that bank. As for oil press. I don't have a gauge on the dash. I did however through a CEL. If I disconnect the batt it goes away for awhile then comes back. So you're saying I may have gooped up the oil ports with sealant? The sealant was so difficult to push out of the tube on the loctite 5900 my hands where shaking from excerpting pressure, did my best to use a small bead 1.5mm(really?) I tried to keep the bead closer to the outside edge of the cover so if there was any excess it would squeeze out to the outside rather all over the internal part of the head. How would I clear that?? How would I check oil pressure. I'll post a video with the noise a little later. Sorry for my ignorance on certain subjects...a new DIY'er on a Porsche. Thanks again. V
vza is online now  
Old 12-10-2018, 10:17 PM
  #7  
vza
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Default

OK...Well here's an audio of the tapping noise. Vid was to big to upload. Thanks V
Attached Files
File Type: mp3
Boxster Noise.mp3 (913.2 KB, 18 views)
vza is online now  
Old 12-12-2018, 11:05 PM
  #8  
vza
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Default

Well as it turns out my timing slipped between the cams and crank.on bank 1 where most of the noise was coming from Hope I didn't bend anything up by running it (idled only.with few revs) to add insult to injury I accidentally pushed the cam end plug into the engine. Took the cam cover off(replacing tappets) but didn't find it yet.going to try and get a magnet in there. Any tips? What are the chances I did major damage to the engine. Probably off maybe 20 degrees as a guestamet. thanks v
vza is online now  
Old 12-14-2018, 02:17 PM
  #9  
Macster
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 17,622
Default

Originally Posted by vza View Post
Well as it turns out my timing slipped between the cams and crank.on bank 1 where most of the noise was coming from Hope I didn't bend anything up by running it (idled only.with few revs) to add insult to injury I accidentally pushed the cam end plug into the engine. Took the cam cover off(replacing tappets) but didn't find it yet.going to try and get a magnet in there. Any tips? What are the chances I did major damage to the engine. Probably off maybe 20 degrees as a guestamet. thanks v
The odds the cam timing was off just enough for the valves to kiss the pistons and make the noise but not hard enough to bend the valve head or cause one or more heads to break off is very low.

After you fish the cam end plug out of the engine and you are sure the cam timing is OK if you want to try a compression check to see if the combustion chamber sealing has been affected by valve to piston contact that's up to you.

Or you can fire up the engine. If the engine runs poorly, you hear it spitting back in the intake, or back firing through the exhaust, the CEL flashes, shut off the engine. There's a problem and it could be one or more intake or exhaust valves are bent due to the timing being off and one or more valves making contact with a piston.
Macster is offline  
Old 12-15-2018, 02:46 AM
  #10  
vza
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Default

Not too sure what you meant. Odds are low that I didn't bend any valves? Hope so. It was in fact noise from the lost timing. I re-set and it started and seemed to run ok. Didn't run it long cause I replaced the cam cover without sealant (to save a trip in case the lifters were bad)to see if the correct timing would get rid of the noise and it did! So I didn't need to replace the tappets... saved me a trip pulling the cams off again. v
vza is online now  
Old 12-15-2018, 01:54 PM
  #11  
Macster
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 17,622
Default

Originally Posted by vza View Post
Not too sure what you meant. Odds are low that I didn't bend any valves? Hope so. It was in fact noise from the lost timing. I re-set and it started and seemed to run ok. Didn't run it long cause I replaced the cam cover without sealant (to save a trip in case the lifters were bad)to see if the correct timing would get rid of the noise and it did! So I didn't need to replace the tappets... saved me a trip pulling the cams off again. v
Poor choice of wording on my part but I was trying to make the point the valves probably didn't make contact with the pistons. No direct experience -- thankfully -- but all the cases I've come across if valves and pistons make contact one knows this without any doubt.
Macster is offline  
Old 12-15-2018, 02:31 PM
  #12  
murphyslaw1978
Super User
 
murphyslaw1978's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 4,448
Default

I was going to say that your sound was way more than a single lifter or piston. multuple components there.

Macster is Right: Fox the can timing and due a compression or leakdown test. Then post the results. Everything might look and sound fine, but there could still be damage somewhere. If anything is bent, oil consumption could now be high, or oil protection could possibly be missing in a critical area. If you are going to do a compression or leak-down test, it might be a good time to check the bores with a scope to see if you can find any visual damage. I would drop the oil filter and check for any particles after you have fixed the timing issue.

By the way, all that knocking could be predetonation/pinging. It sounds like a diesel. If that’s the case, and you didn’t run the engine too long, you could get lucky and not have any serious damage.
murphyslaw1978 is offline  
Old 12-16-2018, 01:22 AM
  #13  
vza
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Default

Well...everyone cross your fingers for me....I finished up...car sounded fine. Left idled to operating temp. Then thru a blinking Check engine.(didn't know there was a blinking one!!) Started if again and the blinker changed to a none blinking CEL. ?? UGH
vza is online now  
Old 12-16-2018, 01:30 AM
  #14  
vza
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Default

When applying the sealant to the cover I noticed one of the exhaust bearings(cam cover) opposite the sprocket had some noticeable wear...I didn't notice it before when I had the cover off the 1st time but I don't think that would have made any sort of sound. Just wondering what the CEL issue is now and why it blinked then stopped blinking and went to stationary.?? Thanks v
vza is online now  
Old 12-16-2018, 01:41 AM
  #15  
vza
User
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Posts: 51
Default

Wondering if using NGK IRIDIUM plugs have anything to do with it....the new plugs came w the car so I figured I'd install them. Perhaps I should put a set of the OEM plugs in. Any thoughts. v
vza is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us About Us Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

© 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: