951 SSM?
01-24-2010, 05:55 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
951 SSM?
I have been digging through the rules and want to make sure I am reading this correctly.
944 turbo with an after market waste gate, BPV, Chip is going to be in "Super Street Mod" ?
(SCCA Solo)
944 turbo with an after market waste gate, BPV, Chip is going to be in "Super Street Mod" ?
(SCCA Solo)
01-26-2010, 11:05 AM
#2
Race Director
Under section 15.10 C-4. which you are subject to in Street mod, Street Prepared, etc...you are NOT allowed any changed to the waste gate, turbo, pop off valve, at all. Check 16.1 of the Street Mods rules that says you can have to obey the rules of SP, SM, or Stock.
http://scca.com/documents/Solo_Rules...inal_draft.pdf
so you are bumped to Prepared or Mod.
01-26-2010, 11:34 AM
#3
Drifting
Thread Starter
I think i may just give up on SCCA again.
They seem to hate turbo charged cars.
It would cost too much to undue some of the mods on my car and too much to make it legal for "modified" class, where it simply would not be competitive at all. (totally stock other than the turbo mods above)
They seem to hate turbo charged cars.
It would cost too much to undue some of the mods on my car and too much to make it legal for "modified" class, where it simply would not be competitive at all. (totally stock other than the turbo mods above)
01-26-2010, 12:48 PM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
After reading the rules further SSM is the correct class.
...and there are no restrictions following that against the waste gate, etc. (that I have found yet).
16.1.D. Drivetrain and related components (induction, ignition, fuel systems,
etc.) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:
etc.) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:
01-26-2010, 01:05 PM
#5
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Porrsha's interpretation is incorrect.
Drivetrain is completely free in Street Modified, so long as you use an engine block from the maker who originally made the engine block (i.e. Porsche). You can put any turbo system on any Porsche-blocked engine you want in your car.
In Street Prepared you have to use the stock turbo but can change everything else in the exhaust/turbo system. Re-read 15.10.C.4, especially .f. You can change manifold, wastegate(s), intercooler, etc.
Drivetrain is completely free in Street Modified, so long as you use an engine block from the maker who originally made the engine block (i.e. Porsche). You can put any turbo system on any Porsche-blocked engine you want in your car.
In Street Prepared you have to use the stock turbo but can change everything else in the exhaust/turbo system. Re-read 15.10.C.4, especially .f. You can change manifold, wastegate(s), intercooler, etc.
01-26-2010, 01:25 PM
#6
Race Director
Porrsha's interpretation is incorrect.
Drivetrain is completely free in Street Modified, so long as you use an engine block from the maker who originally made the engine block (i.e. Porsche). You can put any turbo system on any Porsche-blocked engine you want in your car.
In Street Prepared you have to use the stock turbo but can change everything else in the exhaust/turbo system. Re-read 15.10.C.4, especially .f. You can change manifold, wastegate(s), intercooler, etc.
Drivetrain is completely free in Street Modified, so long as you use an engine block from the maker who originally made the engine block (i.e. Porsche). You can put any turbo system on any Porsche-blocked engine you want in your car.
In Street Prepared you have to use the stock turbo but can change everything else in the exhaust/turbo system. Re-read 15.10.C.4, especially .f. You can change manifold, wastegate(s), intercooler, etc.
16.1 ALLOWED MODIFICATIONS
A. All Stock, Street Touring, and Street Prepared category modifications
are authorized. Except as noted by these rules and the referenced
rules, vehicles must be as originally delivered including all road-going
components such as lights, wipers, interior, heater, etc.
B. Competitors may pick and choose between all Stock, Street Touring,
Street Prepared, and Street Modified category allowances when
preparing an SM car. Apparent conflicts between inherited rule sets
from 16.1.A shall not prohibit any specific inherited allowance.
Allowances inherited from 16.1.A may not incorporate SM-specific
allowances. Foreign spec parts may not be used to substitute for parts
which are required to remain stock.
A. All Stock, Street Touring, and Street Prepared category modifications
are authorized. Except as noted by these rules and the referenced
rules, vehicles must be as originally delivered including all road-going
components such as lights, wipers, interior, heater, etc.
B. Competitors may pick and choose between all Stock, Street Touring,
Street Prepared, and Street Modified category allowances when
preparing an SM car. Apparent conflicts between inherited rule sets
from 16.1.A shall not prohibit any specific inherited allowance.
Allowances inherited from 16.1.A may not incorporate SM-specific
allowances. Foreign spec parts may not be used to substitute for parts
which are required to remain stock.
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01-26-2010, 01:39 PM
#8
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16.1.B is there in case Stock, Street Touring, or Street Prepared introduce an allowance that isn't otherwise listed in Street Mod - we want to make sure anything you can do in those classes, is automatically legal in Street Mod.
16.1.D says "Drivetrain...is unrestricted..." with the restriction on engine block I mentioned.
SSM is a very fast class these days but I think the 944/951 could be competitive with the RX7's given adequate resources. The Strelneiks' black RX7 is close to 2800lbs and is running 285/315 tires. I bet you could fit those tires on a 951 with mild flares and get to that weight without too much trouble. Then it's just a matter of sorting out the handling and drivetrain.
16.1.D says "Drivetrain...is unrestricted..." with the restriction on engine block I mentioned.
SSM is a very fast class these days but I think the 944/951 could be competitive with the RX7's given adequate resources. The Strelneiks' black RX7 is close to 2800lbs and is running 285/315 tires. I bet you could fit those tires on a 951 with mild flares and get to that weight without too much trouble. Then it's just a matter of sorting out the handling and drivetrain.
01-26-2010, 01:44 PM
#9
Drifting
Thread Starter
I will be out classed for a while in this class.
I raced years ago in an AS MR2 Turbo. The ONLY way to really race competitively in SOLO is to stay in the stock class. So many people can't wrap their brain around that.
I have a buddy that just picked up a stock 944. (non-turbo). He wants to solo the car. ALL he can talk about is doing head work, lightening the crank, etc. He has never Soloed and can't seem to wrap his brain around doing the ALLOWED mods FIRST before bumping himself into a class where he is going to get beat by equipment too.
My 951 came the way it is and I just want to go have fun with it. Pretty sure the SSM class is going to be too fast for my car right now.
I raced years ago in an AS MR2 Turbo. The ONLY way to really race competitively in SOLO is to stay in the stock class. So many people can't wrap their brain around that.
I have a buddy that just picked up a stock 944. (non-turbo). He wants to solo the car. ALL he can talk about is doing head work, lightening the crank, etc. He has never Soloed and can't seem to wrap his brain around doing the ALLOWED mods FIRST before bumping himself into a class where he is going to get beat by equipment too.
My 951 came the way it is and I just want to go have fun with it. Pretty sure the SSM class is going to be too fast for my car right now.
01-26-2010, 02:01 PM
#10
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The keys to being competitive in Solo-
Choosing the class you want to be competitive in, BEFORE you pick your car. 99.9% of the cars out there (not just Porsches) aren't competitive in Solo, because there are a limited number of classes, and there can only be a couple cars competitive in any given class.
Choosing a preparation level you can actually afford (time, $ and skill) to build to. You'll need at least $5-6k for any Stock-class car with a set or two of extra wheels & race tires, plus adjustable shocks and maybe a swaybar.
Once you get into Street Touring you need to budget $15-20k+ for a proper build. Street Prepared is 2-3x that, and a proper Street Modified build is going to be 6 figures.
The Fordahls have campaigned a mid-80's 944 (or maybe 924S?) for years in E-Stock, it is still competitive today. The key there is they chose the exact year and option combination that would make the platform most competitive.
Your 951 is legal for A-Street Prepared, which is a very fast class. They're often within just a few tenths of SSM at big events. If you don't have National-level aspirations it doesn't really matter though, ASP in your region may not be any faster than the ST Civics.
Choosing the class you want to be competitive in, BEFORE you pick your car. 99.9% of the cars out there (not just Porsches) aren't competitive in Solo, because there are a limited number of classes, and there can only be a couple cars competitive in any given class.
Choosing a preparation level you can actually afford (time, $ and skill) to build to. You'll need at least $5-6k for any Stock-class car with a set or two of extra wheels & race tires, plus adjustable shocks and maybe a swaybar.
Once you get into Street Touring you need to budget $15-20k+ for a proper build. Street Prepared is 2-3x that, and a proper Street Modified build is going to be 6 figures.
The Fordahls have campaigned a mid-80's 944 (or maybe 924S?) for years in E-Stock, it is still competitive today. The key there is they chose the exact year and option combination that would make the platform most competitive.
Your 951 is legal for A-Street Prepared, which is a very fast class. They're often within just a few tenths of SSM at big events. If you don't have National-level aspirations it doesn't really matter though, ASP in your region may not be any faster than the ST Civics.
01-27-2010, 04:53 PM
#11
Race Director
The keys to being competitive in Solo-
Choosing the class you want to be competitive in, BEFORE you pick your car. 99.9% of the cars out there (not just Porsches) aren't competitive in Solo, because there are a limited number of classes, and there can only be a couple cars competitive in any given class.
Choosing a preparation level you can actually afford (time, $ and skill) to build to. You'll need at least $5-6k for any Stock-class car with a set or two of extra wheels & race tires, plus adjustable shocks and maybe a swaybar.
Once you get into Street Touring you need to budget $15-20k+ for a proper build. Street Prepared is 2-3x that, and a proper Street Modified build is going to be 6 figures.
The Fordahls have campaigned a mid-80's 944 (or maybe 924S?) for years in E-Stock, it is still competitive today. The key there is they chose the exact year and option combination that would make the platform most competitive.
Your 951 is legal for A-Street Prepared, which is a very fast class. They're often within just a few tenths of SSM at big events. If you don't have National-level aspirations it doesn't really matter though, ASP in your region may not be any faster than the ST Civics.
Choosing the class you want to be competitive in, BEFORE you pick your car. 99.9% of the cars out there (not just Porsches) aren't competitive in Solo, because there are a limited number of classes, and there can only be a couple cars competitive in any given class.
Choosing a preparation level you can actually afford (time, $ and skill) to build to. You'll need at least $5-6k for any Stock-class car with a set or two of extra wheels & race tires, plus adjustable shocks and maybe a swaybar.
Once you get into Street Touring you need to budget $15-20k+ for a proper build. Street Prepared is 2-3x that, and a proper Street Modified build is going to be 6 figures.
The Fordahls have campaigned a mid-80's 944 (or maybe 924S?) for years in E-Stock, it is still competitive today. The key there is they chose the exact year and option combination that would make the platform most competitive.
Your 951 is legal for A-Street Prepared, which is a very fast class. They're often within just a few tenths of SSM at big events. If you don't have National-level aspirations it doesn't really matter though, ASP in your region may not be any faster than the ST Civics.
4. Turbochargers and/or superchargers (“forced induction”) may not be
added, changed, or modified (this does not allow ceramic coating of
turbochargers). On vehicles originally equipped with forced induction:
a) No hardware changes or alterations to turbocharger(s) or
supercharger(s), in size or number, are permitted. Turbochargers
or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction
with the accompanying complete engine unit.
b) No changes are allowed to waste gate(s) size, number, or
location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometry turbine
(VGT) hardware.
c) No changes are allowed to supercharger drive system pulleys.
Belt tensioners may be added/changed to reduce belt slip.
d) No changes are permitted to blow-off/pop-off valves.
e) Compressor bypass valves (CBVs) are considered part of the air
intake system and may be added, replaced, or updated/backdated
independently of the other components of a forced induction
system.
f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and
electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered or
modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes
resulting from authorized changes are permitted.
added, changed, or modified (this does not allow ceramic coating of
turbochargers). On vehicles originally equipped with forced induction:
a) No hardware changes or alterations to turbocharger(s) or
supercharger(s), in size or number, are permitted. Turbochargers
or superchargers may be updated/backdated only in conjunction
with the accompanying complete engine unit.
b) No changes are allowed to waste gate(s) size, number, or
location. No changes are allowed to variable-geometry turbine
(VGT) hardware.
c) No changes are allowed to supercharger drive system pulleys.
Belt tensioners may be added/changed to reduce belt slip.
d) No changes are permitted to blow-off/pop-off valves.
e) Compressor bypass valves (CBVs) are considered part of the air
intake system and may be added, replaced, or updated/backdated
independently of the other components of a forced induction
system.
f) Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical, and
electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be altered or
modified except as prohibited herein. Boost pressure changes
resulting from authorized changes are permitted.
01-27-2010, 05:09 PM
#13
Track Day
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Ahh you're right, skipped past the "aftermarket" word. But you are allowed to change the spring or vacuum signal going to your stock wastegate, with a stock turbo couldn't you get the boost you want that way?
Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical,
and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be
altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost
pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are
permitted.
Boost regulation systems, either electronic or mechanical,
and electronic fuel cuts referencing boost pressure may be
altered or modified except as prohibited herein. Boost
pressure changes resulting from authorized changes are
permitted.
01-28-2010, 02:38 AM
#14
I'm not sure what the stock 951 wastegate size is, but that is really the only concern with regards to that first statement. The location and number is the same, obviously.
Part D does not apply to the 951; part E does. This means (to me) that you can "update" your stock one to a Forge unit or similar.
I still think that you could run ASP if you wanted. But, like J-rho said, both are very fast classes (at a National level) and the 951 would, in most cases, absolutely NEVER stand a chance.
Part D does not apply to the 951; part E does. This means (to me) that you can "update" your stock one to a Forge unit or similar.
I still think that you could run ASP if you wanted. But, like J-rho said, both are very fast classes (at a National level) and the 951 would, in most cases, absolutely NEVER stand a chance.
