I recently found a local racer who has a suspension setup he pulled off his 944. It has koni front struts w/400lb springs, koni rear adjustable shocks w/ helper springs and the matching torsion bars. All of this was installed new on his car in 2002. One of the front struts collapsed so it needs to be re-valved but other than that they are almost new condition. I mainly autocross my car at this time but would like to potentially get into some track racing. I rarely street drive my car so the harsh ride would not be an issue. I can get the entire setup for $400 should I go for it? My only dilemma is will the 400lb springs be too much for auto-x. My car is pretty sloppy right now as far as suspension components go so I will have to be upgrading them soon anyway. Should I go for it? Thanks for the help guys.

-Andrew

 

400lb is too much for autox on a 944. In autox, you won't generate enough inertia to get those springs to compress enough!

My $0.42,
-Z.

 

I don't know if that comment is specific to the 944, but a lot of Street Prepared cars run spring rates much higher than 400 lbs./in. For example: Derek Butts' 2003 ProSolo national championship-winning D Street Prepared Lexus IS300 runs 950 lb./in. springs in front, and 750 lb./in. springs in back (ref: 4/24 Grassroots Motorsports). Bob Tunnell's B Street Prepared / Street Modified BMW M3 (2nd in BSP in 2002, 2nd in SM in 2003) runs 515 lb./in. springs in front and 450 lb./in. springs in back (ref: Tunnell's website).

I don't have any data on heavily-prepared 944s (very few people run them in the SCCA), but I don't know of any reason off of the top of my head why the 944 wouldn't work with similar rates. You would want to run suitably sticky R-compound tires to take advantage of those spring rates, though.

Steve

 

Steve,
I was thinking the same thing. My friend had a Honda Civic Si and he had 400lb springs on it and the thing tracked amazingly. His car was lighter than a 944 also. Ill see if a few more people chime in before I decide. So far it is 1 for and 1 against.

 

Ok so here’s what happened,
I got a call from the guy and it ended up that he wanted $400 for just the front Struts and springs, and the rear was somewhat more so I had to pass on it. It kind of inspired me to look into suspension though. Could I manage to get something like, Koni Strut inserts, 250lb springs, and rear shocks for under $600? Do the Strut inserts Koni makes have any adjustability to them? And on later year cars (post 85) do you still have to drill out the assembly to get to the cartridge? We could make this a group challenge: "Best suspension for under $600" ...........(possible second thread).....

-Andrew

 

You won't get all that stuff new for $600 -- front Konis alone are $500+ before shipping and taxes.

You can apparently get front Konis (I don't know if they're inserts or complete assemblies) that adjust via a **** at the top, but the ones I got from Pelican Parts only adjust off of the car, which for all intents and purposes makes them non-adjustable. I'd ask whoever you end up buying from; I just assumed (incorrectly) that the units I was getting would be top-adjustable.

If you're building a dedicated autocross / track car, I'd go stiffer than 250 lbs./in. I just completed building my 951 with 250 lb./in. front springs, 28 mm rear torsion bars, and 968 M030 sway bars front and rear, and my initial feeling is that it's much too soft. Turn-in in much less crisp than my lightly autocross-prepped Honda S2000, there's a lot more body roll, and there's a definite delay before the car takes a set. Nothing objectionable, but you could do a lot better on the track.

Steve

 

Is there a decent alternative to the konis? I am kind of new to the suspension on these cars but still on a budget. I can't really see spending more on the suspension than I did on the car. How are KYB gas-adjust as far as performance. I have heard that they are pretty stiff almost as much as the Bilstein's stock. Has anyone had any experience with these? I am not in that much of a hurry so if I can't find anything decent in my price range right now I will just wait until I can afford it. (college woes)

-Andrew

-Andrew

 

KYB are a step down from stock, the Koni's are easily the best for the price. As above, the setup you asked about would probably come to a little over $600 and is incomplete. Increasing your front spring rate without making a similar change at the rear will negatively affect the cars balance. The Koni yellows for your 85.5 (same as my 86) are replacement inserts, no cutting or drilling involved and they are top adjustable. The rears are not top adjustable as that can't be done in a 944/951 (side adjustable would be nice but would cost $$) due to the mount type (eye mount at both ends) and location (good luck getting to the top if the adjustment were there).

 

Andrew: how much autocross experience do you have? I'm just curious.

That said, IMHO, 250lb springs are more suitable for autox for most people. Sure, the pros are able to use the 400lbs effectively, but unless you are at their level, You won't do any better with 400lb heavy springs: you may even do worse, especially if you pay no attention to the rear of the car, as Dave has already mentioned.
-Zoltan.

 

Z-man,

I have about 10 or so autocrosses under my belt from the end of last year and this year. The reason that I made this post in the first place was because I did not want to pass up a good deal. I am far from being an experienced driver but I would like something a little bit more consistent in my car as far as suspension goes. As it stands right now almost every time I lift off the throttle it really disrupts the rear end so I would definitely like to get some rear shocks at leat. I pulled the old shocks off the car and I could play them like an accordion so I think that they are in need of replacing. Would you suggest doing the suspension piece by piece instead of all together? Thanks for the help.

-Andrew

 

Andrew... The san Diego autocrosses are faster than most so stiffer springs can work better than 2nd gear only autocrosses.

One thing that happens as you go stiffer is that it is tougher to "read" the car as there is much reduced feeling of weight transfer by the driver.

In a softer car you can balance the car much easier at the limit. In a stiff car you pretty much throw it in hope sticks. If it does not there is not much you can do.


I have KYB's on my 83 autocrosser. Reason was that the ones on the car (not stock) were pretty bad and I did not want to put $500 in to my $1200 "parts car". So I went cheap. They are not that bad and much better than worn out parts.

Do get Koni's if you want greater performance.

If you want to stiffen the car sway bars work nice. Then stiffer springs. Talk to some of the 944-spec guys or see if you can get a ride in one.

 

For a mostly track/autox car, 250lb springs are a pretty mild upgrade over stock springs. There's nothing wrong with autocrossing a stock car - I autocross a 99 Miata sport in C Stock with the SCCA, so I personally prefer to race in stock class. However, if you're going to change the springs, I would go with a more aggressive setup given your circumstances.

I would also change the shocks and springs at the same time if possible. They're meant to work together as a system, so you might have strange handling if you only change one. The other question is whether off the shelf Koni's (I believe you're referring to the Koni Yellows) are a suitable match for 400lb springs. I suspect the Yellows are valved for a stock car and may not be a great match for very stiff springs. I'm not saying they won't work, but it's an issue you should resolve before going this route.

All that being said, I would simply install new shocks if your budget is $600. Autocross is mainly a matter of driver skill (yes, yes, setup and tires do matter), and a 944 is a great handling car that can do well. However, it sounds like you need new shocks in a bad way. I would start with those and go from there.

 

Andrew: thanks for the reply. I understand your dilemma better now.

I've got the sport shock option on my 944S2 (Koni Yellows) and the only suspension component I've replaced is my rear sway bar. I have been carefully avoiding the upgrade bug because I know that ultimately, it will cost lots of greenbacks!

I would suggest that you go with either a stock or "stock+1" type replacement for your shocks. I like my Koni yellows, and would consider them a "stock + 1" kinda upgrade for your car. (400lb springs is much more than a mild upgrade, IMHO).

A thicker rear sway bar will also do wonders on your car's handling characteristics. I have the 968 M030 19mm 3-way adjustable set to full firm, and it does help to get the car to rotate a bit.

Though in the long run, it may not be the most cost effective path to upgrades, I do believe in doing small changes at a time. While not cost effective, doing so will definately alllow you to improve yourself at a similar rate as you improve the car.

HTH,
-Z.

 

Oh, one more thing: make sure to take what I say with a grain of salt: I am no expert, I just know what works for me!