n2cars

I have a pair of Transparent speaker cables that are 22 years old. At the time they were the top of line from Transparent. Cost was around $4k. I contacted Transparent asking if the cables could be upgraded. The cables were too old to be upgraded but Transparent was willing to take them back and give me $4k in credit toward another pair of "top of line" cables. They gave me a couple of choices ranging from $8K - $14K. I would have to kick in an additional $4K to $10K to upgrade these 22 year old cables. I have NO interest in doing this.

My current stereo system is very modest and doesn't require, or make sense to spend that amount of money on cables. I am using the 22 year old cables with my current speakers. They obviously still work. My dilemma is: are these cables so old that they are basically obsolete? Has technology advanced so much in 22 years that now a $1k cable would put these old cables to shame? I'm struggling with keeping the cables or bite the bullet and throw them away and start over again to get better sound. So, what do you think? Cables are cables and it doesn't matter if they are 22 years old or brand new today?

wc11

It's copper. It doesn't age.
Have you ever heard of electrical lines being replaced?
The only thing that ages is the jacket material. House wires used to be cloth wrapped but its been plastic for what, 60 years plus?
As long as the outer jacket is in tact do no shorting occurs and the gauge for you run is adequate, keep it.

triode

The Transparent stuff was always well-built and any performance improvement in the new ones will be far less than upgrade cost would imply (kind of like sports cars). Let this episode of Audiophilia Nervosa pass, and continue to enjoy your rig as is.

chuck911

Yes cables age. Copper oxidizes, dielectrics degrade. And yes they are obsolete. Products today are so much better you'll hear it even <$1K. Not all. Most of the stuff out there is what gives people the impression these things are all overpriced nonsense. But the ones that really work, you will be amazed.

Spending anything right now seems a waste though. I'll bet you a Bitcoin its been more than a year since you last cleaned all your contacts. Speaker cable ends, speaker terminals, interconnects and RCA's, power line conditioner outlets and power cable terminals need annual cleaning. Probably they are all dusty too. Vacuum everything and wipe with a good anti-static spray. Reconnect everything and use a tape measure and framing square to align speakers symmetrically to within 1/8" of your listening spot. Take any old clothing anti-static spray and waft over your whole system. Sit back and soak in the satisfaction of getting greater improvement than any kilo-buck cable upgrade for only the cost of contact cleaner, anti-static spray and a few hours time.

There really is only one way to know if you should lose your current cables: listen and compare. Talk to your trusted audio guy and get him to let you take his recommendation home for a listen. Do the tune-up first, then audition. If you even feel the need after the tune-up.

Cyberpunky

They will be fine. If I paid that much for cables I'd be getting buried with them lol
Cables have resistance and inductance, that is all, they don't have a skin effect(at freq we use them for) or other pseudo science that the snake oil salesmen of the audio cable industry use, to fool gullible audio enthusiasts into paying obscene amounts of their hard earned money for.

You paid too much once, so don't give the snake oil salesman a chance at a second bite by trading them in. Auditioning cables ? as they say a fool and his money are soon parted and this sounds like the ideal way to achieve separation.
peace
Cyberpunky

cobalt

Cables can make a huge difference in the sound of a system. I was looking into a friends system he inherited from his father the other day. Nice for the time. Accuphase T-100, C-200 and P-300 powering some old Kef 104's. It was one of the first high end systems I have heard back in the 70's and at one time sounded great. When I turned it on it sounded awful even though his father had the electronics and speakers refurbished before his passing. Cabling was Transparent from the late 80's IIRC his father spent around $10k for the speaker cables and interconnects. So I switched out the IC's with a spare pair of Audience cables i had and walla the sound came back although the speaker cables need replacing also to bring it back t its full potential. I had a pair of similar vintage transparent IC's that did the same thing they deteriorated over time and got so bad the freebees that come with your cheap CD player sounded better.

If you are looking for a neutral sound and aren't looking to spend a small fortune I highly recommend the Audience A24SE's http://www.audience-av.com/ After listening to everything from Cardas to Kubala Sosna at prices up to $6k per meter, I found the AU24SE's offer nearly everything these cables costing much more for much less and best yet are not these massive looking hoses on your floor.

Although there is a lot of snake oil and overpriced crap out there there is merit in having the proper cables for your system. Although unless you have at least $60-100k invested into your system there is no need to go to such extremes for cables. Another brand I would highly recommend is wireworld http://www.wireworldcable.com/ A full range of cables at varying prices.

chuck911

I used to believe as Bruce does that what you can measure is all that matters, wire is wire, etc etc. This just made sense to me. But I'm a very thorough DYODD kind of guy and so when about 15 years ago I was putting a whole new system into my new listening room (aka home theater) I spent a good deal of time travelling around to audio dealers comparing components and bringing gear home for audion. (If you want the best results home audition is the ONLY way to go!) One time in particular I went clear out of state to a place that had some special gadget that would let you quickly switch between cables. This was back when I was inexperienced and thought your audio memory fades so quickly that by the time you switch cables you'll have forgotten what you heard before. Well if that is true you are a lousy listener! Because in this case the dealers device was kaput, no choice but to swap cables. He left me alone with the system long as I wanted. I told him up front no point comparing kilo-buck wire so he put in a $75 interconnect. I listened a while then swapped in my generic patch cord. Soon as the music resumed, even before I was able to get back in the sweet spot, I felt a panic attack of fear! The sound was so horrid that for a moment I just knew I had done something to wreck this great system. But no, it was just my piece of crap interconnect!

There is beyond a shadow of a doubt profound performance differences between wires. Profound. The main stumbling blocks are three: as Anthony spotted not all products on the market really work so you may draw the wrong conclusion listening to them, the character of the likely improvements are not of a sort most people are familiar with so that it can take a while for the magnitude of what you're hearing to sink in, and of course the third reason is psychological in that lots of people simply refuse to believe and therefore acknowledge what their own ears are hearing.

The easiest and best proof of this for the doubters is not some nonsense double-blind but something much simpler and effective. Bring along your wife, girlfriend or anyone really who has a very low interest in audio gear but who does enjoy listening to music. Now the next step is the MOST IMPORTANT! Bring along some music that THEY really LOVE. Then simply have them listen to their favorite music with different components. I have done this enough, and had friends do this enough, that I can GUARANTEE you they will express a preference for their music played on the better gear. Guaranteed.

I've had friends who wanted to buy a component but they just KNEW the wife would never go for it. I gave this same advice. Told them line up the one you think they'll approve, the one you want, and something even more expensive that you're absolutely certain they will never ever go for. Guess what? They want the BEST one! The one that SOUNDS GOOD with the music THEY LOVE!

This is the thing most guys miss in their quest for techno goodies, that the real goal is musical, toe-tapping, spine-tingling hair-raising emotional involvement. That is what a really good music system will deliver. But only one built by listening, not measuring, will get you there.

n2cars

I appreciate everyone's input. As everyone knows buying cables is a daunting task. Back in the 1980s and 90s I bought all my equipment from Christopher Hansen in Beverly Hills. The carried a lot of different cable brands and provided loaners to take home. My local audio store carries one brand, Audio Quest, and they are not set up to provide loaners. I think I will have to use the Cable Company and try their loaner program. They charge 5% but it could be worth it in the long.

Chuck911, you are correct. I've NEVER cleaned any of my contacts in 20 years. I guess it's time to do it.

cobalt

This stuff works quite well.


Although I think you will find it is time for some new cables.

Good luck

Randy V

Go to Home Depot and buy a couple hundred feet of 8 gage lamp cord.

Luxuriate in the audio nirvana.

chuck911

Keep looking around. Most true high-end audio shops should be willing to let you try at home. Maybe not everything they have but they should have at least a few cables you can try.

Its been a while since I was in the market, but back when I was there were at least a dozen different interconnects, power cords and speaker cables I was able to try out. That's a dozen of EACH, and I'm being conservative.

But again, first thing to do is clean everything. I've tried a ton of things and honestly the most important thing is to just clean. Lots of things you probably have sitting around will work just fine- any sort of silver/metal polish (mag wheel polish even) followed by a good wipe with a cotton cloth and alcohol. Or spray carburetor cleaner on a cloth and wipe. You won't believe the improvement in frequency extension, detail and presence. Another reason to do this first is otherwise when you try new cables you won't know that maybe half the improvement you're hearing is simply that the new terminals are clean! Also you'll be trying to correct the problems caused by the dirty contacts. This could lead to selecting components that are brighter or more etched in detail than you'll realize later you really needed.

Another thing that will have the Home Depot crowd rolling their eyes but really makes a difference: get your cables up off the ground! Worst thing you can do is lay them on carpet. Opinions vary on why this is so but the fact it is so is just that, a fact. Sorry, Home Depot people. Clean the wax out of your ears and try again. I mean try. Like, even once.

From the sounds of it you should have a budget of probably at best a few hundred dollars for your speaker cable. If that seems unlikely to work believe me it'll be plenty! Back when I was comparing it was shocking to find some $175 cables that outperformed $1k cables. Given the improvements since yours were made I'd be shocked if you aren't able to find very reasonably priced wire that will be amazingly better than what you're using now.

n2cars

[QUOTE=chuck911;10432249]
Another thing that will have the Home Depot crowd rolling their eyes but really makes a difference: get your cables up off the ground! Worst thing you can do is lay them on carpet. Opinions vary on why this is so but the fact it is so is just that, a fact. Sorry, Home Depot people. Clean the wax out of your ears and try again. I mean try. Like, even once.

Slicing tennis ***** in half? Would that work?

Cyberpunky

Hmm would think if the difference is profound then you wouldn't need to be familiar with the character of the likely improvements. My experience suggests it's not that ppl don't want to believe and so can't hear anything, it's that cable fans want to believe, like UFO fans, religious fans etc and so magically hear improvements, so we agree it is a psycholigcal, but for me it is the power of the mind wanting to believe that makes ppl here what isn't there. I call them true believers and I'd like to sell them a bridge I own

My experience is way too long and detailed to go into here but I find the reason cable fans dismiss double blind test is that scientific method gets thrown out the window when you are talking the religious zealotry that cable fans get into, and if ppl can't hear the improvements it's because they can't listen properly etc.

I guess all my time in pro-audio, selling high end audio and being head national sound quality judge hasn't taught me to listen properly *shrugs*

So seriously anyone wanna buy my bridge ?

cobalt

Well in some cases you may be correct, like any subjective topic there is fact and fiction. I am not one to believe what I am told but what my experience tells me.

IMO cables are as unique to stereo equipment as tires are to our cars. Saying cables don't make a difference is like saying that there is no difference to Michelin PS2's, Toyo R888's and Hoosier R6's on the track.

Putting it into perspective if you are a novice driving a stock boxster the benefit of one tire over another might not be as noticeable as it is to the advanced driver of a similar boxster that has a complete suspension upgrade vs a pro driver who is driving a full blown spec boxster. It is not much different when considering cables and depending on the rest of your system and how well you understand your system depends on how profound the differences can be.

cobalt

So you can seriously sit there and claim to have all this experience and still insist that there is no discernible difference between lamp cord, cheap Monster cable and cables like the Audience I use? If so it sounds like you built yourself a bridge you can't unload.