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Of course opinions have always varied on this. In my mind I've always considered myself a pretty spirited driver (plenty of shifts close to/sometimes at redline), and after putting 10,000 miles on my 997.2TT (MT) I've got 139 range 1's and six range 2's as of 8/17. Perhaps I'm not as hard on her as I should be? I guess my question is what does it take to register + range 3? And how much is one thrashing a car to register the amount of hours over redline like on the DME report above? I'd imagine the car must've had a tune to be there so frequently?
Wow, 139/6/0/0/0/0 is one of the cleanest 6mt reports I've ever seen outside of Grampa's Grocery Getter. On a stock car, range 1s are pretty easy to rack up just by spirited driving to redline, same with range 2s to a somewhat lesser extent. 3s are where you start seeing actual missed shifts. This changes with most tunes, though, that often raise the redline such that every time you rev it out you're pouring tons of range 1s and 2s onto your report. That said, money shifts typically break a car right when it happens, not 15,000 miles later while you're commuting to work.
A (contrived) analogy I've thought of is if a guy falls off a 2nd story balcony. One would expect that to hurt quite a bit and mess him up, and usually it probably would, but sometimes, people land just right or do some sick parkour move and roll out of it unscathed. Guy falls, lands just right, gets up and feels great, not even a bruise or scratch. He goes on with his life, jogs every night, maybe runs some 5ks, half-marathons, etc. 6 years later, he goes to his doctor and the doctor says, "holy cow, man! You'd better not do that 5k this weekend, you fell off a balcony that one time so you definitely hurt yourself! I wouldn't risk it!" The factual, reality-based evidence that the guy is good-to-go is right in front of us.
Wow, 139/6/0/0/0/0 is one of the cleanest 6mt reports I've ever seen outside of Grampa's Grocery Getter. On a stock car, range 1s are pretty easy to rack up just by spirited driving to redline, same with range 2s to a somewhat lesser extent. 3s are where you start seeing actual missed shifts. This changes with most tunes, though, that often raise the redline such that every time you rev it out you're pouring tons of range 1s and 2s onto your report. That said, money shifts typically break a car right when it happens, not 15,000 miles later while you're commuting to work.
A (contrived) analogy I've thought of is if a guy falls off a 2nd story balcony. One would expect that to hurt quite a bit and mess him up, and usually it probably would, but sometimes, people land just right or do some sick parkour move and roll out of it unscathed. Guy falls, lands just right, gets up and feels great, not even a bruise or scratch. He goes on with his life, jogs every night, maybe runs some 5ks, half-marathons, etc. 6 years later, he goes to his doctor and the doctor says, "holy cow, man! You'd better not do that 5k this weekend, you fell off a balcony that one time so you definitely hurt yourself! I wouldn't risk it!" The factual, reality-based evidence that the guy is good-to-go is right in front of us.
That's actually a very good analogy.
For the record - I only use the car as a weekend warrior since I live in NYC (I never drive the car in the city). And although I've been called an old soul before, I can assure you at 28 years old I'm not driving her like Grampa's Grocery Getter haha.
Wow, 139/6/0/0/0/0 is one of the cleanest 6mt reports I've ever seen outside of Grampa's Grocery Getter. On a stock car, range 1s are pretty easy to rack up just by spirited driving to redline, same with range 2s to a somewhat lesser extent. 3s are where you start seeing actual missed shifts. This changes with most tunes, though, that often raise the redline such that every time you rev it out you're pouring tons of range 1s and 2s onto your report. That said, money shifts typically break a car right when it happens, not 15,000 miles later while you're commuting to work.
A (contrived) analogy I've thought of is if a guy falls off a 2nd story balcony. One would expect that to hurt quite a bit and mess him up, and usually it probably would, but sometimes, people land just right or do some sick parkour move and roll out of it unscathed. Guy falls, lands just right, gets up and feels great, not even a bruise or scratch. He goes on with his life, jogs every night, maybe runs some 5ks, half-marathons, etc. 6 years later, he goes to his doctor and the doctor says, "holy cow, man! You'd better not do that 5k this weekend, you fell off a balcony that one time so you definitely hurt yourself! I wouldn't risk it!" The factual, reality-based evidence that the guy is good-to-go is right in front of us.
^ Nice analogy, however, there's a key distinction in that our bodies have the ability to heal themselves over time (in some cases even stronger than before). A car with damaged internals does not and will continue to get worse. I'm not saying the above DME suggests that, just speaking in general terms.
^ The new GT3 manuals are going for $180-200k so if anything, I think their price point will help prop up used 997TT values which are half the cost or better. But I agree that the R may continue to drop, especially since the new GT3 has arguably the better motorsport motor.
Agree, the R is the GT3 touring minus the better engine!
^ The new GT3 manuals are going for $180-200k so if anything, I think their price point will help prop up used 997TT values which are half the cost or better. But I agree that the R may continue to drop, especially since the new GT3 has arguably the better motorsport motor.
I could go either way on the "prop up" and I'm not saying TT's are going to tank. I think the bubble will burst and they drop to expected, reasonable values for a few years. Then they will begin their inevitable climb back up, but a bit more slowly than recent months/years.
But someone who can afford $120K for a minimally 6-year old Porsche, possibly out of warranty, and a private sale, should be able to afford a bit more for a brand new, leasable, with warranty, more advanced car. I don't think it's all about price or these TTs wouldn't be so high right now. I saw a 2012 for $139,000 a few weeks ago. Notably it had PCCB. But that's almost retail when it was new.
I think the key in all this remains the transmission. People had no other choice regardless of cost to get 500 hp Porsche manual. Now they do. That GT3 touring is going to be popular.
For the record - I only use the car as a weekend warrior since I live in NYC (I never drive the car in the city). And although I've been called an old soul before, I can assure you at 28 years old I'm not driving her like Grampa's Grocery Getter haha.
Fellow New Yorker here.
Here is mine. The range 5-6 were not done by me, but the rest was
This is an old pic. Its more colorful now I am sure
I could go either way on the "prop up" and I'm not saying TT's are going to tank. I think the bubble will burst and they drop to expected, reasonable values for a few years. Then they will begin their inevitable climb back up, but a bit more slowly than recent months/years.
But someone who can afford $120K for a minimally 6-year old Porsche, possibly out of warranty, and a private sale, should be able to afford a bit more for a brand new, leasable, with warranty, more advanced car. I don't think it's all about price or these TTs wouldn't be so high right now. I saw a 2012 for $139,000 a few weeks ago. Notably it had PCCB. But that's almost retail when it was new.
I think the key in all this remains the transmission. People had no other choice regardless of cost to get 500 hp Porsche manual. Now they do. That GT3 touring is going to be popular.
I don't really see 997TTs as being in a bubble. Many are selling for around 60% of their original msrps which puts them in the general auto depreciation category, maybe a little better and have just slowed or stopped their rapid drop that is typical for Turbos. For this, I actually think they represent good value for all the car you get and not a bubble in my view. The example you noted above is a rare exception and only represents asking price. But most are selling for far less than that. Some cars may be in a bubble but I don't put Turbos in that category.
And as for GT3s, 180-200k is substantially more than 120k in my book. I would gladly pocket the 60k+ and drive home with the 997 GT3. Otherwise, where does that argument end... the same guy who can afford a 200k car can afford $x... and so on. The money differential does matter to many, even if it's just psychological and not a matter of affordability.
Last edited by Rambler_13; 01-18-2018 at 09:59 PM.
Man, I do not envy you when it comes time to sell that. The DME Weenie Brigade will have a field day.
(Assuming it doesn't wipe you and your family out in a fiery explosion before then.)
Originally Posted by Rambler_13
I don't really see 997TTs as being in a bubble. Many are selling for around 60% of their original msrps which puts them in the general auto depreciation category, maybe a little better and have just slowed or stopped their rapid drop that is typical for Turbos. For this, I actually think they represent good value for all the car you get and not a bubble in my view. The example you noted above is a rare exception and only represents asking price. But most are selling for far less than that. Some cars may be in a bubble but I don't put Turbos in that category.
+1. There are definitely car bubbles out there, but I'd never say the TTs are in one right now.
Hey I was trying to open the auto trader link to see if that was the car I had just bought in the fall 2017. I was looking to see if someone had known the history of the vehicle
Thanks
^^ the type I would hang out with. It's a performance car and the DME Weenies are an embarrassment to the marque. 😂.
Agree 100%! Too much emphasis and scare tactics on DME reports that really don't mean very much in the larger scheme of things. IMO the dealer uses them to avoid CPO'ing a car or to deny warranty coverage. It's a dealer sales and service tactic to save money. If the car has a good service history and the PPI (if required) checks out there is no reason not to purchase it and enjoy it!
01-18-2018, 11:46 AM
