Originally Posted by 550bryan

This whole subject of mods is a painful issue for me (literally). I picked up a wonderfully equipped 09 6 speed about a year ago, love the car. One problem though is my bad left knee. I have three cars with manual and they all present a bit of a challenge. Given that I've considered flipping my 09 for a newer PDK equipped car. Haven't made a decision yet as the 09 is such a nice car. My immediate dilemma is that I would love to do some mods. In fact I have a FVD tune sitting on my workbench (picked it up during the Valentines sale) that I haven't installed for the reasons stated above. The fact that my car is under CPO til the end of 2015 is also a minor issue. By all accounts the tune will wake up my car, and I love power, but my car will then be modded, so there the tune sits. If I decide to keep the 09 the tune and an exhaust will be added. I've even put in a Sachs 2.5 and plugs so I'm good to go if I decide to add the tune. If I decide to sell someone will get a great car with an uninstalled tune included.

Originally Posted by jem7v

That I agree with you. Most suspension mods fu** up the car for DD use. They make it loud and bumpy and scrape over everything.

ECU tune is hit or miss. If it's cobb I'd trust it. Anywhere else not so much.

Originally Posted by Dennis C

I guess another way to look at this is to consider what "value" really means. Ultimately, value isn't related to the price paid for a modification or for the quality of the work. Sure, these things are important, but the value is only realized if somebody is willing to pay for those modifications. If the modifications make it difficult or impossible to sell the car as in the example above, then that value is never realized. As a result, there's no little or value there.

It's a bit like real estate. If a house has been "over improved" for the market, then that value is rarely realized. For example, if you live in a suburban track home in a neighborhood full of $450K homes and you decide to spend $70K to put imported Italian marble in your entryway, you'll still sell your house in the $450K range. This is true even if you use the highest quality marble, have an outstanding builder do the work and it greatly exceeds the quality of the original builder. It might make your house a little bit easier to sell and you might get a few thousand dollars more, but not much.

I wouldn't even look at a 2008 TT for $105K. I'd rather have a newer car that is totally stock for that money, no matter how nice the mods are. That being said, you might look at the same car and say "Wow, that's fantastic, I have to buy it and I'm willing to pay a premium".

I don't think anyone is questioning the quality of the work in that case or others that you mentioned. The question is: What's that worth to me as a buyer? Am I willing to pay for it? In many cases, it seems that the answer is "no".

Originally Posted by Doc V.

Certainly there's no irony in the fact that you don't know your own car, jem7v, but do know the contributions that certain modifications make to a car's performance and value--no irony whatsoever.

You boldly proclaim that "the mod game is the same for every car. No car is immune to it"--a position that relates to your ramblings about cars and modifications and your view that quality modifications enhance the monetary value of the cars to which they are applied. After all, you plead, "if you mod a car [with quality parts at a reputable shop], it should add value not diminish it." Yet you have presented examples which contradict that position and oddly don't cause a constructive revision of it.

Let's work with your position, jem7v. Since no car is exempt from the "mod game," let's take a stock, low mileage, special original color 1994 964 Turbo 3.6. Through a respected shop, we'll modify its body work, wheels, and exhaust, and we'll change its CIS injection system to an EFI system. With the modifications, will the car have a value which increases or decreases? Recall your own words, jem7v: ""if you mod a car [with quality parts at a reputable shop], it should add value not diminish it." And you even offer an example which contradicts your position: you mention a car with a "techart GT body kit" that its owner couldn't sell. (Your precise identification the car's year of manufacture is terrifically consistent: "i [sic] think it was," "could be wrong," "know it was between 07-09" certainly enhances the credibility of your views.)

So many of your posts dealing with modifications have one implicit goal: a guarantee of future market value. Before you spend the money to modify your car (the one with the limited slip differential--that standard feature about which you had no knowledge), you want assurances that the modifications will enhance the car's value when you decide to sell it. Since those assurances haven't been forthcoming, you've decided to serve as an increasingly irrational advocate for a position concerning modifications and value enhancement.

I take no issue with your desire to modify you car: it's yours to enjoy as you see fit. I do, however, take exception to the insipid and frequently inconsistent rationalizations that you generate in order to gain the confidence to act upon your desire.

Originally Posted by phillipj

Whoa hold on there..You are saying that Protomotive, FVD, Softronic, Evoms etc are poor quality tunes? These companies have been tuning Porsches for decades. Cobb not so much. I'm not saying that Cobb aren't getting great results but at what cost?

Cobb is a new comer to Porsche tuning and is getting huge power gains over other tuners..How do you know about longevity and the stress of this additional power on the engine? Do have have any data regarding the long term effects?

Have you had any experience with other tuning companies? If so who? If not how can you make such a statement?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but don't be dissing well established companies that have long and successful track records with Porsche.

No offense to Cobb but your post was totally irresponsible..

Originally Posted by jem7v

My list wasn't exhaustive. Notice the etc I put in there. I could put an entire comprehensive list if you'd like though.

EDIT: My mistake I didn't notice you were referring to my first post. Yes I see how it could have been interrupted that way. Sorry. See my lower post when I mention a few tuner companies but again the list isn't all of them.

Originally Posted by phillipj

Sorry to hear you may be selling that beauty Bryan. But rest assured you will get a very good price for it if you do sell.. as you know an 09 coupled with being white brings a nice premium..

Originally Posted by jem7v

Lol you're not understanding what I am saying. I said mods SHOULD add value if done correctly. That doesn't mean in reality that THEY DO add value. Again my argument is if it's from a quality shop that is at or above OEM value they again SHOULD add value.

But because of the issues with mods and who and where they are installed this again becomes tricky. Could it be a well known thing that mods done through some of the shops I listed be considered value adding? Yea sure. But maybe people could just as easily buy those mods, and put it on themselves at cheaper labor costs.

Then we could get into everyone documenting and keep receipts to avoid issues with asymmetric information.

I've modded a few cars, as expected I got 50 cents on the dollar. On my HRE's I got about 80% back. Don't get into classic cars, I have limited knowledge on their market. I'm talking cars of today, or at least last 10 years. I probably should have specified that, so that was my fault.

On top of all us, you're opinion of my "rambling" is not because I want to mod my car, and get money back for it. It's just a conversation (which is what forums are designed for by the way) that I want to understand, and see other people's mindsets given, porsche isn't for penny pinching bargain hunters (for the most part).

Same way I don't understand ferrari owners. They see a car with 10k miles, and immediately they think tomorrow it's going to break if they buy it. It's ridiculous. That mentality I can't understand. And the dealers and people who buy the cars, feed that mentality with no foundation for it. It just ends up being the name of the game in that case.

But before we continue, I guess I should read the owners manual on my car to know every nuance feature of it, before making other people unhappy. I was quite unhappy when I learned it doesn't even have an auto headlight feature .

Originally Posted by TurboBill911

The car has 41,000 miles on it and is a cab and the colors I want. He listed these mods on the car. I have not owned a 911 for a while and not really familiar with these mods. Could ya'll tell me what they are worth and how much extra hp they bring the table?

Here is the description:


"Porsche 911 Turbo Cabriolet with carbon fiber wing and navigation! This is track ready with EVOMS Vflow intake, boost hose kit, diverter valves, and short shift kit. Also Porsche GT2 intercoolers, FVD racing turbos, cat back exhaust and headers. I recently added new factory Porsche 997 '19 wheels with spacers, new tires, coolant hoses pinned, new fuel pump, brakes flushed and oil changed. I have the hardtop and extra set of wheels and tires to go! "

Thanks guys.

Originally Posted by Doc V.

You're hedging, jem7v, and you're rambling. Your new position is that modifications don't add value. However, the more you write and post in the attempt to rationalize you position, the more you compromise it.

You assert that you "said that mods SHOULD add value if done correctly. That does not mean in reality that THEY DO add value." Shortly thereafter, you ask, "could it be a well known thing that mods done through some of the shops that [you] listed be considered value adding? Yea sure." In other words, modifications should and do add value, in your estimation.

Your most current post in this thread doesn't contain the only instance of your inconsistent reasoning. In post 18 in this thread, you assert that "in fact, mods do [my emphasis] add value," and that "unless they are cheap cookie cutting honda civic mods, it [sic] does [my emphasis] add value." You also claim in the same post that "if someone pays the extra cash and gets their stuff from the most reputable aftermarket brand, it [sic] should [my emphasis] add value." You offer analogous claims in which you use the verb "should" in post 24 in this thread. Unfortunately, you fail to recognize that when you assert that something should be the case, you are expressing a condition or an expectation--you're implying that modifications do or will enhance value.

In post 34 in this thread, you contend, jem7v, that you've always recognized that modifications don't add value, yet you (i) initiated a thread in which you asked others if they would be willing to "pay extra for a turbo S that was converted to a GT2 RS," and (ii) started a poll in which you asked potential respondents if they would be prepared to "pay extra for a turbo S that was converted to a GT2 RS." You claim that you know that modifications don't add value, but--at least given your current position--"the poll thing I was curious of." Increasingly, the sound of your responses is disingenuous.

Originally Posted by jem7v

You have too much time on your hands. You win, I'm tired of this banter. Anyways I consider my poll a little different than slapping some springs on the car. It was doing mods with OEM parts so slightly different ballgame.

As I said from the beginning. Mods from reputable places, done right, should add value. The discussion from the beginning was me arguing that they should, which naturally assumes that in the current state of the world they don't. Because if they did, we wouldn't be talking now.

And doing these conversions seem to be pretty popular. Esmotors is getting a lot of business from people who want this.

Anyways feel free to quote more of my post history. You got a lot of free time to waste.

Originally Posted by jem7v

You have too much time on your hands. You win, I'm tired of this banter. Anyways I consider my poll a little different than slapping some springs on the car. It was doing mods with OEM parts so slightly different ballgame.

As I said from the beginning. Mods from reputable places, done right, should add value. The discussion from the beginning was me arguing that they should, which naturally assumes that in the current state of the world they don't. Because if they did, we wouldn't be talking now.

And doing these conversions seem to be pretty popular. Esmotors is getting a lot of business from people who want this.

Anyways feel free to quote more of my post history. You got a lot of free time to waste.

Originally Posted by jhbrennan

So far, your poll, while hardly a scientific sample, indicates you're in a significant minority when it comes to wanting to spend money on these mods...but again it's your car, your choice.

Originally Posted by Doc V.

Apparently, jem7v, you're trying to walk back your contradictory responses and evasive, defensive rationale with a flaccid response. Confronted with your own words, you deny that you wrote them. Your concluding explanation of your motives is conceptually equivalent to a grunt.

Originally Posted by parkerfe

All such mods decrease the value and it reduces the pool of potential buyers. For resale, an original car is always worth more than a modified car.