TT Surgeon

I think cost cutting was the primary reason, and having a uniform engine across all models, boxster to tts. That's VW.

550bryan

Everything I have learned thus far from people much more knowledgable than me is the change away from the Mezger engine was driven by cost considerations. The 3.8 is lighter and less expensive to manufacture. Yes, it makes plenty of power, but with a smaller margin of error I suspect, which is consistent with the comments above about it's absence from racing. Lets face it, if Porsche intended to make it their racing engine of choice it would have done so by now wouldn't you think? It's been around for what, 4+ years now?

phillipj

This comment just shows your arrogant ignorance when it comes to racing and just about everything else you rant about. Webber will be racing a Le Man Prototype . The engine will have nothing to do with the engines in the street cars.

For one it's 4 cylinder hybrid. Here is s piece to educate yourself before you hit the keyboard again.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...ype-auto-shows

And another error is your Honda Formula One statement. Honda will be returning in 2015. No mention of this of course..

Porsche is currently racing the 991 GT3 RSR with a Mezger engine. If the DFI had an advantage they would use it. They don't like to lose.

I know you will react to this post with another 2000 word essay full of your unfounded, sarcastic dogma filled with personal attacks.

But all you will get from me is corn.

The fact is that most of the time you are wrong.

TT Gasman

If it has an oil pan it's not a true dry sump. There's a reason the Mezger motors cost twice as much as a m96 or 9A1 variant. Having said that I'm sure 95% of current owners do not push their cars anywhere close to the envelope and a uniform 9A1 is more than adequate. Volkswagen is a huge company, they did their homework. Something for everyone instead of everything to someone...quite the opposite of the old school Porsche philosophy.

speed21

No offence to you, but there are a lot of assumptions going on there jpviper. The only thing that isn't is that Porsche has yet to step into the new dfi platform in its race cars, but I'm sure that is just purely a matter of time and, timing.

Tuners generally only play around with things they have existing expertise, knowledge and familiarity with. That said I see CMS has stepped forward and is modifying these engines successfully. So again it is just a matter of time before others move forward as well. Doesn't mean the new engine isn't as good or durable as the old outgoing unit.

Again, a lot of assumptions. No doc whether Porsche has taken/seen the advantage of the synergy by using an engine design and placing it across all models doesn't mean that "new" design has not incorporated the best of previous engine design. Obviously certain things will change physically on any new engine design, usually based upon improving on earlier versions. To say Porsche has taken a regressive step back from the mezger based upon (alleged) cheaper manufacturing costs of the actual design is again overlooking the obvious fact that manufacturing costs will essentially remain unchanged for reasons as previously given. Sure, by incorporating an engine design across all models (may) see minor savings here and there, and as a business model that makes a lot of sense. That said the core components between the engine variants have differences to accommodate for size and power output and therefore would remain of individual manufacture anyway. It is not as if the one engine block can be used for every individual engine, nor the one crankshaft, camshaft, cylinder head, etc. The same also applies with the hard parts such as the pistons rings bearings valves, gasket sets etc etc..., That is evidenced by differing part numbers as well. there would only be savings in the event where one block is universal or one cylinder head is universal or one crankshaft is universal etc but I am not seeing that going on here. There are enough differences between each engine type to where costs are going to remain much the same as what they ere previously. Therefore the argument some of you guys are trying to get traction with is fundamentally flawed.

In so far as the claims that the new engine is in some way inferior in terms of dry sumping, and, as most of you guys all source all of your knowledge and understanding of all things "engine" from the internet as your sole source of knowledge and advice, I have copy pasted the following link for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sump Mind you there are many others for you all to read if you so feel inclined.

However, for all of that, the bottom line here is that the new engine IS indeed a dry sumped engine (as Porsche also states it as being). Sure it may not be exactly the same as the merger in terms of the collection arrangement, but that is due to engine design and nothing else. In fact if costs were such a major consideration it would have actually been cheaper for Porsche to have made the new block the same as the mexger unit, that way no pan would be required as a collector. i.e. a saving in manufacturing costs right there.


I would dearly love to hear exactly where the new 3.8 is cheaper to manufacture than the older unit rather than listen to assumptions all of the time. Can anyone here explain why it would be cheaper?

lmao!!! Hand the man a fire extinguisher….quickly!

Let's face it Phil all you can give is "S'corn, and probably a few tips on lipstick, hairgel, tampons etc. Beyond that there isn't much substance there at all.

Also, just think about this Phil (if you will), what little you say I know, you know a hell of a lot less

Now I didn't come on here posting as some kind of walking talking encyclopaedia on the motivations surrounding motor racing for the companies mentioned. That said if I wanted to, like yourself Phil, I could google all my information like you do and come up with the fine detail. But the detailed intentions of future motor racing for Honda was essentially not what my posting was about now was it? But whilst on the topic, where Webber is concerned, you don't know what Porsche has in store for him beyond what everyone here already knows….now do you. Hmmm? From what I see he appears to be getting used as their main face for marketing now as well, and has appeared driving all types of platforms for the brand.

Get your self a bigger fire extinguisher buddy….you'll need it.

Doug. Sorry man but the engine is a dry sump unit. Having a collector pan at the base of the engine to collect the bleed off is indeed a dry sump configuration.
I would agree with you that the new engine is certainly proving more than adequate for anything any of its buyers are throwing at it. I think if Volkswagon has allowed Porsche's best engine design to prevail throughout the manufacturing of their engine range is a good sign in general for the Porsche buyer.

TT Surgeon

By that logic, the m96, which was is also described as a integrated dry sump, is also a true dry sump?
The replacement cost from pcna for a 997.1tt long block runs about 27k, the like 9a1 long block from a 997.2tt is in the neighborhood of 8k. Now, the mezger is much costlier to make and has 40% more moving parts, so it's all relative.
Again, I never said the new engine was crap, merely unproven in racing. If I just plunked down 200 large for a tts I'd defend it too!

speed21

Doc later engine technology has managed to do away with certain moving parts in the course of advancement/evolution, not for any other reason. In so far as today's price for a long block assy, it would stand to reason that an outgoing unit would be more expensive based upon the fact production numbers generally come down the more volumes you produce. The new engine represents the greater volume of current manufacture iykwim. And, just because an engine has more moving parts doesn't make it better either. It actually opens up the door for more things to go wrong.

In so far as defending any purchase I personally don't have a tendency to become emotionally attached as some tend to do in defending what one has spent their own money on in favor of ponying up for a newy. I do see this happening more so with the guys on the opposite side of the fence though as they seem desperate to justifiably cling on to what they have. And sadly sometimes a lot of that is based upon the size of their cheque-book (not that they will ever admit that)......may not be the case all the times....but, a lot of the times.

To me the new car is a great car, and so was the old one. When this new one no longer interests me I will shake it, no tissues required. You also should know we pay a lot more for our cars here too, so if I can walk away from a car I just did X amount on it without crying I can't see myself crying when I walk from this one. Maybe I will cry if I can't afford another one though LOL!...and then try and justify why I need to cling onto this one...

ljpviper

I bet 99% of the people that bought 991 GT3's wish it still had a mezger. I would be livid spending 150k and going through all those issues.

Sorry, I believe when spending this kind of money it should indeed be special. The 997 GT3 market speaks highly of just how special of a car it was. I willing to bet my 07 turbo that the 991 GT3's will be worse less than 997 GT3's 10 years down the road.

speed21

^Something tells after driving it they won't be missing anything. 9000 rpms screaming in your ear sounds very attractive to me. I'm still yet to miss the manual and I'm as big a die-hard for the stick shift than most would be here. If it changes I will be the first to admit it.....I quite like the taste of humble pie. Just make it plain with some icing OK.

ljpviper

I guess time will tell, hey at least it's a good discussion among turbo owners. We are not bashing corvettes!!!

speed21

^ Agree. Time usually sorts everything out. And is good discussion so far too. Everyone has managed to keep their pants on except poor Philly but that was to be expected... so no harm no foul. ....nothing a good dose of reality and a fire extinguisher can't fix.

rmc1148

Its good to see that this banter is not just on the 996tt site lol. Very interesting!

speed21

^ So what's the verdict from the 996 boys? Has the boot shifted from the 997tt to the 991TT yet?

rmc1148

All I can say for sure is that most guys that are selling seem to be willing to take very low offers. They argue the benefits or not of upgrading to the 997tt. I love my car and could have easily afforded a 997tt but I'm old school and found the rough edges of the 996tt a better fit. I believe the clean lower mileage cars will always bring good money if a person is patient. The 991tt is a completely different car and its hard to compare it with the 996tt or 997tt.

TT Surgeon

So, when are they going to start racing? My original question.
Btw if I wanted one, I'd buy one, too bad it only comes with the automatic.