TT Surgeon

Loaded question, many factors in pricing a car.

speed21

Also agree that out of all the 997tt.1s the 09 will be the only one likely to hold any real value, mileage pending of course. You were wise getting out of your old car regardless of any emotional attachment you may have had. The fact you were able to buy an incredibly low mileage car again in the right colour, year and spec is also indicative that move was a good one and hardly worth being remorseful over.

I would agree with noparasan anything over 100,000kms is mainly only attractive to the real bottom end of the used car market. The "wingers end" which generally have far higher expectations than the car can usually deliver at that point in its lifetime. Buyers within that low end budget category usually expect to get far more than what they have paid for so dealers always wind up with headaches and problems. The price and real value of the car is reflected accordingly although often highly inflated by the dealer (sticker price) to accommodate an over expectant trade and/or likely warranty situation.

100,000kms being your (USA or UK) 62,000 miles, maybe doesn't sound as bad to the ear as the magic 100K kms but in reality is seen by most as being the real end of it, as the best part of the ownership period of the car has been spent. Maintenance costs can and often really start to build at (and beyond) that point, anything is likely to happen and often does for the used car buyer often because they think they can drive the pants out of it in the same way as a new one and have nothing break, then relying purely on the warranty as their sole base of argument to get stuff replaced. Then the winging and moaning begins to who ever sold the damn thing to them… always best to trade these cars and avoid later conflict with the purchaser. Official Dealers usually bump these on to the shadier operators to contend with..

Exactly. I can't figure why at this stage he doesn't know how to multi quote. Ridiculous all those individual posts!

NP: It is as simple as scrolling to the bottom RHC of each post you want to respond to and click on the +" which is right next to the " " at the bottom far right hand corner of each post. Hover over it and it will say "multi quote this message". Then click on that and it will turn orange indicating you have selected the post for inclusion. Once you have finished your post selections you wish to reply to or "multi quote", clicking on each of the +'s (which then turn orange), then go to the very bottom of the thread and press the "post reply tab" and press that. Away you go from there noP….respond to each of the posts appearing in your reply box individually. Now let's see if you can do it to make sure you got it ok.

AllanB

Not sure agree with this" Also agree that out of all the 997tt's the 09 will be the only one likely to hold any real value, mileage pending of course."
Not sure what's so great about the 09 over say the 07 and thought there was big following for the mezger engine ?

I see the 996 turbos think coming up bit or in the 40 to 50 or so range. I see the 997.1 mostly in the 70 to 80s range. I could see the 997.1 maybe going for 40 to 50 in six more years or so. But don't see them every going for much under 40k. And maybe eventually will start going northward.
Sure some high mileage 100,000 mile and up cars will go for less and cars with bad accident history could also go for lot less than clean history low mileage cars.

speed21

The last of the 997tt.1's (09) have the later PCM unit.. has all of the old platform which is assumed to be better by certain buyers primarily due to the older mezger unit.

100,000 mile cars out here or in US/UK terms, 160, 000km cars, are legally sold by dealers here with "no warranty", and for good reasons. Dealers like these cars because they don't have to entertain any nonsense past the point of sale. But of course the buyers are your bottom end budget sports car dreamers that want the look without the price tag….and cry when things **** themselves. That is typical….and will never change.

atcbi5

What a bunch of nonsense, who cares about what they are worth? Just enjoy the car and drive them!

Zeus993

1+ 100%

speed21

^^ Nonsense? What are you referring to as being nonsense?

I would agree you should always seek to enjoy what you have bought regardless of your financial position or what you paid. I think that goes without saying. And, if you don't care about the price or, what it is really worth, then why not pay double or triple for something that is worth nothing? And then drive that and be happy. You won't and I'll tell you why. It's he same reason doc won't take 50k for his 997tt or pay 150 for one the same. Things are only as nonsensical as what you want to believe them to be...

JayinToronto

Maybe the DFI .2 will turn out to be the darling of the bunch

+1. I've had my car for 18 months and have put 30k kms on it. If I thought too much about depreciation and resale I would cry with each commute to work. Instead I wake up each morning with smile on my face that I get to drive this unbelievable machine to work.

speed21

Frankly I think you are right. The .2 to me represents the far more attractive package as it has all the improvements of the 997 platform. And, it looks better too. Everyone likes to toss on about the mezger all the time as if it is the be all end all and how it is more durable when modding, yet modded cars are less valuable and attractive to the used car buyer in general anyway. Go figure.

So in that sense what good is it really? And it is not as if there is any history of .2tt engines crapping themselves everywhere anyway. Yep I would put my money on the .2 as being the 997tt car that would see more interest out of the two gens well into the future. I just look at the consistent feedback I get from my dealer where buyers of the 997 platform all generally want the .2 car all day everyday. The only problem being the higher price tag and again the used car buyer being more price oriented yet reluctant to take the .1 anyway. Go figure.


I think in this respect I would agree that to not drive something for the sake of preserving its value is stupid. If you buy something you should do your best to enjoy it and really not focus on the return upon sale. Just use it and enjoy it!

Far too often I hear stories where guys have bought these cars new only to mothball them, taking the car out for the odd short spin here and there in fear of putting miles on it that will detract the price in future. Crazy. Why save it all up for the next buyer and then take a massive hit anyway?

AllanB

Cars are mostly not great investments and keeping them garage queens is not really what a fine car is for. They are meant to be driven unless you want to put them on a revolving turntable in your living room or something .

I spread my mileage around by having several cars , daily drivers for winter and when weather is not very nice out ,the sports cars for spring/summer /fall on reasonably nice days. Not afraid to take the sports cars out on a rainy day either. I am 56 not getting any younger and plan to drive my sports cars. If they sell for less when its time to sell them so be it.

If you are super worried about depreciation on these cars best to not buy one. But buying used can also be a good thing. I got my SL55 recently for 50k which is less than new price and my 911 turbo for high 70s which is also lot less than new price. So for lot less than new price got two low mileage top of line sports cars. Works for me. Depreciation does slow down and the cars can even move upward down the road. But best to not count on that and just drive the cars and enjoy them.
It don't do you any good lying in your grave to have a 5k or whatever 911 turbo in your garage but it might make your son or some other guy happy .

phillipj

TT Surgeon

I'll believe in the dfi wet sump 9a1 engine and it's dirrivatives when they start racing them at Daytona or LeMans. Until then the Mezger still rules.
Having said that, the 997.2tts and the 991tts are better overall street cars than the 997.1.tt, I've had both of the 7s and prefer the rawness of the .1 vs .2tts.
Yes, 996tt values are creeping up, ESP the 05tts.

speed21

I believe there appears to be some confusion, or simple lack of knowledge on the wet and dry sump principle going on here with the new 9A1. It even states clearly in Porsches product manual (991tts anyway…but will check the 997tts manual next week…but pretty sure it is same) that the engine is a dry sump unit.
And, just because the design of the oil collection point has changed does not mean it is not a real "dry sumped" unit.

Quote;" "The integrated dry sump lubrication ensures reliable oil supply and also performs additional cooling functions. The electronic oil pump supplies oil when it is needed. Simply efficient. Because the oil reservoir is integrated in the engine, there is no need for an external oil tank. This saves space. And therefore weight".
………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...
Looking at the engine in both manual diagram, and on the car, it appears there is a flat collection pan on the base of the engine to collect the oil as it runs off the pressure fed moving parts. All dry sumped engines require a collector else how can the pump move the oil back into the main tank? This is normal.

Frankly, looking at the engine core parts I truly fail to see where it is in anyway "weaker" than the outgoing merger unit in terms of the core parts i.e block crank cams rods heads. Naturally different strength rods can be used depending upon the output requirements, and other hard parts such as pistons, liners rings and bearings can and will always differ also depending upon the type of use the engine will see and, the output being delivered, but these are generally the wearing items in the engine that will see replacement anyway.

Mindful of Porsches core principles, I could only imagine that as a matter of natural progression and evolution of their engine range Porsche would only seek to improve on the mezger engine design in terms of the principles and design of the core parts for future models. Manufacturing costs would always remain the same (as essentially the same amount of work is required to make and set up the casts for manufacturing) and, the material/metal costs would also remain much the same too. I honestly could not imagine for one second that Porsche would go out of its way to go backward in terms of engine core part durability, strength and reliability, which are essentially core principles of the brand, breaking its own code.

To suggest Porsche would have designed a weaker block or head etc (without providing any tangible evidence to support the claim), and for Porsche to deliberately step the design of the past mezger engine backwards, whilst upping the output and efficiency of its newer engines (due to the alleged reasons of cost cutting???), when the manufacturing costs will always remain much the same anyway, really makes no logical sense whatsoever.

It appears some people are putting forward some sort of unqualified personal paranoia forward based on little more than (group assumptions of the same ilk) in a bid to justifiably "cling to the past". (god save the model 'T" lol…thats what we should all be in!).

Past motor racing events where the old merzger engine was in season and reportedly surviving tirelessly, again forgetting that even these earlier engines were subject to frequent rebuilding from the rigours of motor racing, also appears to be conveniently forgotten by these same critics. Odd.

And this is another reason why I would say the .2 will prove the ultimate 997 for those that see it as some form of collectable. Rant over..

Psup4s

Nice, I like where this is going LOL it was getting boring around here

speed21

lmao! We need action!.. and, a bit of scuffling from the diehards .