aa909

Just curious but whats the most HP and TQ you've all seen or read about in a modified 997.1 TT vs a 997.2 TT?

IIRC I've read about 1000 HP 997.1 TT but not seen that kind of power on modified 997.2 TT. Or am I mistaken

speed21

In the context of someone buying one of these cars with intent of turning it into a franken drag car then there may be certain relevance but that said how many buyers really fit that category? Albeit, the 9A1tt engine hasn't been proven to be any weaker in any of its core parts in comparison to the mezger anyway therefore either unit can be built up using more race oriented hard parts to a higher HP if desired. I believe it has only been the reference to the PDK mission in times gone by that there may be some kind of "weaker" argument although with CMS's latest results even that one is a non event nowadays. I still believe that for most buyers that don't have either car and are looking to buy, the .2 car presents the better package all-round.

aa909

Paul you make some good points but I stand by my premise that Porsche did not move to the 9A1 in the 997.2 TT because it was the "best" engine for the TT but rather because it meets the ever tightening MPG and emission requirements and it is much cheaper to manage 1 SKU across all models rather than continue to offer a separate modified race engine solely for the Turbos.

I may be completely wrong but I don't think Porsche makes any meaningful modifications to the 9A1 for the TT other than adding the turbo plumping, yes?

If not for cost or CAFE considerations Porsche might have used a modified version of the 9A1 making 600+hp in the TT (why not?), it would have been impressive considering most of us here get 550+hp from our old mezgers by simply adding an off the shelf tune + a free flowing exhaust (drone or not LOL!).

My real beef is that CAFE standards are really limiting what car manufacturers are/will do with current and future sports cars. Let's see what the next gen TT delivers in 2020 when CAFE standards require 55 mpg and the smell of roses from the exhaust pipes .

Leo997TT

I don't think you will get rich if you buy a 997.1TT and sell it in 10 years from now... So I wouldn't worry about money because for sure you will lose money in the minute you drive out of the dealership... (Unless you bought a Shelby Cobra 60 years ago)

3.6 vs 3.8? Who cares... Personally I just want the newer technology... I know for sure Vivid racing, fabspeed, etc won't make my car faster....

Get a 3.8 with full warranty and you will have 500hp for real... Which is more than 630 Vividracing HP....

TT Surgeon

That's the same thing they told me about 993tt ten yrs ago, 965s, or recently 930s. Take a look at values on 993turbos at 5, 10 and now 15 yrs out. They dipped as expected, plateaued and are now sharply rising. Ditto for 965turbos, and only recently, 930s bc of their higher production numbers. I'm 51 yrs old, owned many Porsches and study the turbo specific market closely. I expect the same for 997.1 turbos, ESP as cafe standards neuter most future sports cars.

Leo997TT

Well maybe if you buy a 997TT and keep it low miles... That is not my case, I will always drive it as much as I can.. :-) anyway the only thing I be driving in 40 years from now, it will be my 2053 electric wheelchair with toilet include...

Do you think a 2009 997TT with 100k miles will be worth something in 30 years from now?

Some cars can do this un very short time like The Ford GT, every year is around $30k more expensive... (I love that car)

TT Surgeon

Look at current 930 values, clean high mile cars (100k) are trading in the 25k + ranges miles and all for otherwise clean examples.

Leo997TT

I believe you... But I will not keep a car for that long... Technology is crazy! And moving very fast! I will always go with the newer car...

My vote is for the 3.8 and as soon as the 991TT come out, my vote will be for the 991TT

I hope Agency power and others never have access for the 991TT so they won't be making crappy parts for that peace of art....

Rob993

TT Surgeon, i'm about the same age and have went through many cars as well. the biggest change i see is the hybrids and electrical motors being forced to be mainstream based on the EPA requirements. i have the latest Motor Trend and it seemed more than half of the featured cars were electric or hybrid. May take longer for the cycle to climb for the 997.1 MT, but it will. if only i did not snag a PDK, although for drag runs and traffic its pretty cool.

speed21

Art, regardless of the cafe talk the 3.8 engine delivers better everywhere as does the rest of the car. So where is the sacrifice? And don't you think you can't add equally as much HP to the new engine with an off the shelf tune? Of course you can! Look at CMS's latest results. Porsche has moved from the mezger purely due to development and progression. It had to happen sooner or later CAFE or no CAFE. You surely don't believe mezger was going to remain the pinnacle of Porsche's engineering for ever? Fact is the new 9A1 has proven more power and torque can be reliably produced whilst also enjoying better efficiency. you see the same thing happening in F1 engine development. The faster and more fuel efficient you can make an engine, along with reliability, the better the chance the car will have of winning. In the .2 car the new engine is superior as is the evolution of the chassis....it's just a better car and everyone who drives it says the same thing. Its not that the .1 is a bad car, far from it, it's just that the .2 is better. I guess many here that have put their hard earned into modifying their cars have emotions and understandably dont like to see it get knocked off the perch so easily by the next iteration straight out of the box but that's what Porsche is about. Just when you thought the car couldn't get better they pull a rabbit out of the hat. Just look at the new 991tt and all the naysaying going on already and the car hasn't even hit the showrooms yet least of all the reviewers. And the talk of cost this and cost that is silly. It would have been cheaper to have sat still in favour of developing a new engine and, the new engine will keep evolving with the model years adding more power and efficiency along the way. Also it's not just a NA engine with a set of turbos and plumbing bolted on so again each engine has its own production costs...same as before.

aa909

Paul u "snagged" a PDK? Have you sold your 997.1 for .2?

aa909

Paul that was a hell of a long reply, but you didn't even address my question. You just went back to "997.2 is better than 997.1". (Did you buy a 997.2 or put your name on the list for a 991 TT or something?)

Go back and reread my post you were supposedly replying to, where exactly did I say the 997.1 was "better" than the 997.2?

Try again

"Progress" doesn't mean Porsche put the best engine in the 997.2. My point is that cafe restrictions and cost implications dictate that Porsche use the 9A1 in the TT. Otherwise they would have used a highly modified version of the 9A1 with much more performance gains in the TT. And they didn't

And future"progress" is being "engineered" by CAFE requirements. You may believe that is great but many would disagree. I still think a large block V8 is better than many of today's sports car engines for the sound and rumble alone! You just can't get that nowadays and tomorrows sports car is going to have the deafening hum of a tesla

Edit
I put it in bold this time

rodsky

To buy a 997 TT for collectibility is crazy. There are way too many of them. You would have to a) not drive it b) keep it original c) a loong time. Using the rule of 72, if you put $70,000 investment and get 8%, your money doubles in 9 years i.e. $140K. Buy a 997.1TT for $70K> it wont be worth $140K in 9 years. Plus you have to pay to maintain it, insure it etc.

Buy them because you want to use them and enjoy them. Pay for the utility of the car, the fact that you love to drive it. Otherwise, you are paying money for a crappy investment. Only a 4.0RS has yielded a better return and thats because there are 127 (or something like that in the US).

Leo997TT

+1

speed21

No longer than your own post directed at me, so what was the point you were trying to make there?

I don't see it that way. My point was the .2 IS better based on all reviews to date and also my own experience in sampling.

And no. It'd be a nice enough thought though but at this stage my car is still fine and when the time is right I will make a shift forward. May not be till 991tts.2...don't know just yet. Too early to say. I will drive it first and then decide but will let you know ok.

Now now. No need to get snarky. The inference and tone of your posts all leads to the one obvious conclusion, hence my posts/replies.

....well whatever you refer it as, evidently the 9A1tt can certainly do everything the mezger can do and more. So if that makes it worse for being a better performing, more efficient reliable unit then you've sure got me confused.

Maybe i missed something? From what i see the new unit has clearly outperformed the mezger in performance efficiency and reliability. Sure you can modify the mezger but the same applies with the 9A1.

And I don't agree with your theory surrounding the cost implications at all. The 9A1 atmo and turbo units are two separate productions with separate core part designs specific for their outputs. It stands to reason a turbo will always use a heavier duty crank, rods, different cam profiles so on and so forth. If you have any knowledge with the production of engines you would know the differences found between NA and turbo variants of the same engine family. So where are the cost savings there?
Not entirely. CAFE is part of the overall equation in all engine design, today and yesterday. The future involves progress into DFI engines in the same way as carburettors became outdated with EFI. DFI had been going on with other high volume manufacturers long before Porsche got their hands on it but they were running behind on implementing DFI technology into their engines due to the costs, not the other way around. If you have any understanding of component/engine manufacturing it is a very expensive exercise having to go right back to the drawing board to redesign an engine that improves on both performance and reliability of an outgoing unit. I see Porsche as catching up on that in the same way they have steadily become in better position financially to revise the GT3's power plant so it too enjoys the same technological benefits. The 9000 rpm limit is not regressive nor is the higher and more efficient output of the 9A1. DFI clearly increases power and is a more efficient technology. DFI does not decrease power.

...well everyone is entitled to an opinion on sound and every engine has its own unique sound. I personally have no issue with the sound of a flat six porsche engine, quite like it actually. It suits the car in the same way a ferrari engine sound suits a Ferrari.

I actually got your point a long way back but to be honest in the context of the OP's original post/question imho you are fighting an uphill battle no mater which way you want to present your argument. Bottom line, I have yet to come across anyone who hasn't driven the two cars/engines and said the .2 is a worse car in any way. It's really not my fault the .2 drives better and goes better and, you are coming across as being sore in some way. You can't fight the future....well you can if you want.