jleev

Hi guys,
With a used 911 purchase imminent and most likely a vehicle including PCCB how might one assess the condition of the PCCB components to avoid inheriting a costly situation.
Also can the condition of the PCCB's be a way to indicate wether or not a vehicle has been abused or overly tracked?
Is is as simple as inspecting pad wear/thickness? Can the disks be examined conclusively with out removing?
Finally is this forensic part of what is considered a 'normal' PPI?

All thoughts most appreciated.

Regards,

Jay

Macster

Total 911 has a DVD with its 1st 50 issues on it for sale. The last 3 issues contain the 1st, 2nd and 3rd articles on PCCBs . The info in these articles will answer all your questions.

If you are in a hurry send me a PM with your email address and I can reply with a PDF of these articles, taken from the actual magazines not from the DVD.

A normal PPI should have everything inspected from looking for signs of hail damage to the roof to nails in the tires, from trashy radiator ducts to a burned out brake light bulb.

Certainly given the cost to put PCCBs right if they are wrong a thorough check of the condition of all rotors, the inner and outer surfaces, their thicknesses, pad thicknesses, etc. is part of a normal PPI.

Unless the PCCBs are in sad shape they are not the best indicators of tracking. In fact some owners remove the PCCBs and fit iron brakes and then when they go to sell the car return the PCCBs to the car. So brand spanking new PCCBs could be a sign the car has been tracked unless somebody can supply you with a work order that shows the PCCBs were replaced. 'course that too would be a sign the car was tracked.

Look for tire dust or bigger pieces of tire rubber in the radiator ducts, on top of the underbody panels, anywhere actually. Look for signs the underbody panels are really scraped up or very very fresh. Look for "high performance" brake fluid in the reservoir.

If you are buying from a private buyer feel him out on how he feels about tracking. Even if you would never ever track a car ask about how the car would be that you're thinking of taking it up and what his experience with the car? How's it handle? Run? Or does he know the previous owner tracked the car. You want to get the seller talking about the car as much as possible for this is one way to learn about the car.

jleev

Macster so appreciate the depth of your response and kind offer. Thank you.
The Total 911 DVD a terrific reference and have purchased. Are the articles in general considered "impartial" ?

Best,

Jay

nuclearfishin

Not to hijack this thread, but if PCCB's do go bad, rather than replacing with a 5-figure repair bill, is it possible to just replace with steel brakes, or is there more to it than the pads and rotors?

Macster

My WAG is as the articles are as impartial as any other indy Porsche car mag.

If an indy car mag started ragging every model that came into its hands it would soon find itself at the bottom of the press car list.

If the cars were really bad then the mag would be better changing its focus or brand or going out of business.

The PCCBs articles appear to be well researched and as much as I've been able to get confirmation of the info contained in the articles the info appears to be accurate.

Macster

I'm no expert so you'll have to wait for one to chime in but my recollection is the brake change over requires new rotors, pads, calipers and possibly other hardware too.

It is not trivial nor cheap but of course cheaper than the cost of replacing hosed PCCB rotor/pads.

jleev

PCCB's have been with us for many years now. I'm surprised this topic still conjures and essence of fable and hear-say. Even a thorough forum search doesn't clarify the most basic of ownership principals regarding this system for DD street use. (not track)
Those of you that have enjoyed this technology on a daily driver for past years please chime in.

Best,

Jay

mm450exc

1)With a used 911 purchase imminent and most likely a vehicle including PCCB how might one assess the condition of the PCCB components to avoid inheriting a costly situation.

You have to remove the rotors and put them on a scale. This is the only way to check wear. The original weight of each disc is printed on the hub I believe. I'll have a look when I get home.

2) Also can the condition of the PCCB's be a way to indicate wether or not a vehicle has been abused or overly tracked?

Yes - search for pictures. I use mine on the track - drive fast but not out to kill them. Give them time to cool down and use engine braking. So mine look like new I'd say. If you drive your car like you would drive a cup car in a race - they will go at some point.

3) Is is as simple as inspecting pad wear/thickness? Can the disks be examined conclusively with out removing?

No

4)Finally is this forensic part of what is considered a 'normal' PPI?

No

Terry Adams

64K since new on my PCCB, and I have them inspected by the dealer every year or so.

About 54K of that was DD in stop/go traffic - why, in addition to 2 new hips, I have a Tip.

The other 10K was spirited canyon driving. One episode of which was a trip up and down Mt. Palomar with some really gung ho younger drivers. I kept up, not thanks so much to my driving skills, but being able to lay on some boost between the hairpins and scrub it off prior to turn in.

Boiled my brake fluid to the point of a mushy pedal, saved by a 20 minute break and easy driving thereafter. Changed the brake fluid when I got home. Dealer recommended same stuff, not ATE blue, as I recall.

kosmo

yep- weigh the rotors.

malmasri

^ like he said....each rotor has the weight stamped on it, if you lose 100 gm then they are nearing the end of life.
nuclearfishin:
There are OEM and aftermarket steel rotors that will bolt on in place, no mods needed.

Macster

I wasn't advocating one swap out the PCCBs for iron brakes only that it could be done.

Frankly I look forward to if at all possible my next Porsche having PCCBs. The techs tell me based on the type of usage my cars get the PCCBs will last the life of the car.

Oh, and apparently iron rotors with suitable pads that will work with the existing PCCB calipers exist for those that wish to return to the iron age.

CRex

This topic's been covered ad nauseum over on the GT3 forum. Two threads to help you. Pics in the first pertain to so-called "Gen 1" ceramics, and the second, "Gen 2". If you're looking at 997 they should all be Gen 2.

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...formation.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-...ml#post9988230

jleev

Got it. Myopic inspection including weighing indicating non-abuse = many many miles of breaking bliss.
Devouring GT3 threads pending.

Thank you,

J

TrackDays247.com

An option would be to snap 4 pics of the prospective car/rotors and post them here. We'll help you.