L_perm

...to be upgraded by Borg Warner via FVD Brombacher, from whom I purchased my exhaust, headers and tune. This will put me at FVD's "Level 3" (610hp/594tq).

My reasoning was pretty simple. If I had to take the turbo off to get a machinist to remove a broken stud, then I might as well remove both turbos and upgrade them. Airtight logic. Who could possibly argue with it?

Of course, this sets up some other things down the road a bit: upgraded intercoolers; upgraded clutch (w/ GT2 slave conversion); BRVs; coilovers and possibly other suspension bits; maybe even an LSD for the fun of it!

I'm currently looking into a two-post lift for my garage to make all this "work" a little easier to accomplish. I'd ultimately like to be "Porsche self-sufficient."

LP

phillipj

That sounds awesome.. Perfectly logical to me!! So FVD just upgrades the VGT turbos? Bigger turbines? What about lag? Really interested in your mod program.. Great that you want to do the work yourself as well. Good luck!

TT-911

As you said, airtight ! Love it

L_perm

Thanks! You can learn a little more about it at FVD's website, but in a nutshell they send your cores to Borg Warner (the OEM) who then replaces all the parts except for the housing. I'm not clear on whether or how they modify the housing, but they put in a larger inducer and exducer that are also said to be lighter than the OE turbines. The variable geometry works the same after as before, but I am unsure if they replace/reprogram the control unit on the turbo. In the end, you get more air flow and slightly faster spool up too!


I assume my wife not talking to me means there's no argument to be made.

Louis

TT-911

Looks like AWE also sends Turbos to Borg Warner :

"At the heart of this powerful kit is a pair of AWE Tuning VTG Turbos, developed in a joint venture between AWE Tuning and BorgWarner, who is the manufacturer of the OEM 997TT turbos. These turbos maintain Porsche's VTG technology and are a direct plug and play application. Whereas the stock compressor wheels are cast aluminum, our turbos utilize high flow compressor wheels CNC machined from high strength forged aluminum. Forged aluminum construction allows for safe operation at higher rotational speeds which these turbos see at full power."

http://www.awe-tuning.com/products/p.../awe-700s.html

Maybe yours will be rebuild with forged parts too.

Terry Adams

I like your thinking.

There is no end to how much you can save "while we are in there".

L_perm

Yeah, I think the big soot-covered German blacksmith started hammering on my parts today.

I talked with Mr. Brombacher earlier. They do some re-contouring and polishing of the inside surfaces, and the shape of the turbine blades is different--more efficient. The turbines are larger, but lighter. The VTG vanes operate the same and are controlled by the control unit on the turbo, which is a simple servo device that takes its instructions from the ECU. All of the old internals are thrown away to keep them out of circulation. BorgWarner stamps new part number plates on the upgraded turbos.

Mr. Brombacher said they recently changed the turbine blade profile and the added boost pressure led them to have to detune--presumably to stay within their desired safety parameters. They were pleasantly surprised by the significance of the change.

FVD's tunes are written in the same binary language that Porsche uses and the sampling rates are the same. All safety gizmos are left in place. The code is stored in the same space on the ECU as the original and the "program count" is unaffected. You get your original file back along with the tuned file. They've been doing Porsche (only) tunes since 1984.

I also like the sound of the M&M exhausts they sell. In any case, you can tell I'm impressed that they know what they are doing. End of commercial.

Oh yes! I'm saving money left and right and gaining valuable experience working on my car, which will lead to more savings in the future, etc., etc.... The benefits of new turbos are seemingly endless.

Louis

dianic

LoL great post.
I think we are all standing at the edge of a cliff, and all we need is just a nudge to dive off the mod slope!

I love this idea of reworked turbos in the same housing and more efficient... hmmmm

phillipj

Can I ask the cost of the Turbo upgrade?

phillipj

Nick,

I believe that this is one of the strong points about owning a TT for a long term. You can leave it stock but... You can always make it faster if you want to. There is no end to performance options... Rather than get a new car you can just upgrade the one you have.. I saw a Proromotive 997-1 TT on a YouTube video from Russia. It was a drag race to a mile.. This car went up against GTR's and other TT's.. It absolutely destroyed everybody.. And it was a manual... I asked Todd from Protomotive about this car. He said it dynoed at 1230 hp at their shop. Holy crap....

Glenmhor 1

I agree about long term ownership and tuning potential. I sold a Gen2 car with PDK (N/A) and came back the way in terms of age for that reason. I really hope the Mezger engined cars wil escalate in terms of desireability as time goes on.

These cars are unique in that every other Marque I've taken in interest in over the years needs all other aspects of the car upgraded in order to handle the extra power. The GT1 block is an exceptional base to work from and the performance gains reliable and realistic.

I have actually seen enthusiasts in the Uk spend enough on power upgrades on cheap Jap cars that would have bought them a well sorted Porsche at the end of the day.

Can see why you take the stance you do in the S/C debate Louis. In this context there is actually no comparison.

Rob.

L_perm

About $4,700 if the turbos you send in are good. If the shaft has worked its way out of alignment and caused excess wear, which is not common, then you don't get the core-exchange credit, and the price goes up by another $3,300 or so to simply buy the upgraded turbos without a viable exchange.

You'll need a higher-flow exhaust than stock and a tune to make them work. FVD will write you a new tune for free if you already are using their tune and purchase your upgrade parts from them. I had already purchased the FVD tune with my exhaust, so I get the tune upgrade for free. The tune will automatically adjust for certain things, like air filters, but new turbos require a new tune. If I get upgraded intercoolers from them someday (they use the GT2 motorsport ICs) then they'll redo my tune for free again, and so on...

www.fvd.net

Rhonda is great to work with.


I don't know about the Promotive, but Switzer (IIRC) has a couple of 1,000hp 997.1 TT's on stock internals. I think the conventional wisdom is that you are safe on stock internals to around 750. Some of the more conservative tuners will say 650-700. My FVD tune/upgrades will take me to 610hp/594tq at the crank, as officially reported by the German tuners. It will probably be closer to 650hp. And, I should see quicker spool up, which is at least as important to me.


Well, I only mentioned the tuning option in response to Terry's comment that tunes were more costly for similar results. That whole discussion was a rebuttal of his comment, not an argument that tuning is necessarily superior to the SC. There are warranty implications, etc., and we are talking matters of preference, which I am careful not to openly judge.

I may not have the same preferences as you, or someone else, and so I may not fully understand why you would make a particular choice, but there are many considerations that make these choices personal--and not "no-brainers." I thought Terry's description of the SC choice as a no-brainer was an expression of his own preferences, within a context that I thought was over-simplified.

This also explains why I tried to make sure you understood that I was on my soapbox responding to all those who continually recommend SC as a must have--expressing my own opinion, not denegrating yours.

Louis