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GT2 RS Intercoolers

 
Old 06-22-2012, 01:34 PM
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Default GT2 RS Intercoolers

Question for the group. Has anyone had any experience with upgrading to the Porsche GT2 RS interccolers? I talked to BBI Motorsport here in Southern California and they told me this is a good mod. Others have told me that the intercoolers are not big enough to make a diffrence. They are quite inexpensive (see link) compared to most other aftermarket IC's... Another benefit is because they are a Porsche part they will not void your warranty. Your tech will not be able to tell them from stock (visually.)

http://sonnenporscheoemparts.com/par...catalogid=7378

Has anyone heard of anyone who has upgraded to these? Pros, cons?

Thanks!

Phillip
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Old 06-23-2012, 10:03 PM
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Hi Phillip,

I just ordered the same intercoolers for my 997TT and they have been installed by my Porsche Dealership...

They had some issues putting them on due to hose sizes being different.... from what I had read, this should not have had to be done so i'm not sure whats going on but the dealer is happy now...

If you go onto 6speedonline, you will find a few long threads about these intercoolers... the basic upshot is that you will get a drop on your intake air temperatures of around 18-20 degrees celsius, which is substantial... these intercoolers have been compared to some aftermarket ones and the aftermarket ones were found to perform worse(!) than even the stock intercoolers...

Basically, for $1k + labour you won't get a better intercooler... the next one up from that is a CTR built one for around 8000 Euro!!! Everything in between is unproven, believe it or not (just marketing claims)....

This upgrade is a no brainer... it's cheap, and we know that with high IATs the ECU will pull timing and boost, therefore dropping your power (no matter which ECU tune you buy)...

Good luck!

drvik
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Old 06-24-2012, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by drvik View Post
Hi Phillip,

I just ordered the same intercoolers for my 997TT and they have been installed by my Porsche Dealership...

They had some issues putting them on due to hose sizes being different.... from what I had read, this should not have had to be done so i'm not sure whats going on but the dealer is happy now...
So Vik what was the dealers story re their claim of the larger hose sizing requirement ? Or was it a dealer knee jerk panic over nothing? Be interested to hear. I'll be doing this mod myself at one point in the not so distant future so any heads up is appreciated.
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Old 06-24-2012, 07:36 AM
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Old 06-24-2012, 03:01 PM
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Here's the original GT2 RS intercooler thread with pertinent links off the first post:

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...olers-wow.html

Only downside is a potential to separate inlet tanks at very high boost (>1.8 bar).
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Old 06-25-2012, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by drvik View Post
Hi Phillip,

I just ordered the same intercoolers for my 997TT and they have been installed by my Porsche Dealership...

They had some issues putting them on due to hose sizes being different.... from what I had read, this should not have had to be done so i'm not sure whats going on but the dealer is happy now...

If you go onto 6speedonline, you will find a few long threads about these intercoolers... the basic upshot is that you will get a drop on your intake air temperatures of around 18-20 degrees celsius, which is substantial... these intercoolers have been compared to some aftermarket ones and the aftermarket ones were found to perform worse(!) than even the stock intercoolers...

Basically, for $1k + labour you won't get a better intercooler... the next one up from that is a CTR built one for around 8000 Euro!!! Everything in between is unproven, believe it or not (just marketing claims)....

This upgrade is a no brainer... it's cheap, and we know that with high IATs the ECU will pull timing and boost, therefore dropping your power (no matter which ECU tune you buy)...

Good luck!

drvik
Drvik,

Thanks for the great info. Yes I'm aware there will be modifications to make them fit on a 997-1 TT (If you order from Suncoast Porsche they tell you in the product description you will need to make mods.) So your dealer is not screwing with you. Do you have an ECU tune as well? If so are you going to update your file for the new IC's? Please let me know what you think once you have driven the car.

Thank you!
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Old 06-27-2012, 12:31 AM
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Firstly Earl, thanks again for doing all the early work on these intercoolers.. I've read all your posts and enjoyed the scientific approach you took...

The dealer has installed the intercoolers. No issues were raised regarding the mounting points, just the hose diameters. He said he used a set of aftermarket hoses that he had sitting around in order to make it work... Apparently a bit of basic plumbing did the trick.... Sadly, I didn't ask him in time to snap some pics of what he did otherwise that would have been useful, but I may do so the next time the bumper is off... The system has been pressure tested and the car has been driven without any issues... I couldn't really follow the more detailed explanation of what he did, because I followed the blog linked above which said "OEM fit", and all I expected was some duct trimming, cutting, and pop riveting.... if you call Reuben @ Porsche Centre Gold Coast and mention my name, I'm sure he'd be happy to assist with more info...

It's currently cold here even in Brisbane, so I expect my IATs to be under control even with a stock IC... I may have a chance to get out on the track in a few weeks time and log some data...

To my basic knowledge of turbo cars, this upgrade, much like the Europipe, are no brainers... the obvious next step is the ECU tune, which is hopefully not far away... I am hoping to work with Kevin @ UMW on a tune for the car to unlock some more potential, but I had to return my OBD2 cable to him for some kind of repairs and don't have a replacement yet....

Cheers,

drvik
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by drvik View Post
Firstly Earl, thanks again for doing all the early work on these intercoolers.. I've read all your posts and enjoyed the scientific approach you took...

The dealer has installed the intercoolers. No issues were raised regarding the mounting points, just the hose diameters. He said he used a set of aftermarket hoses that he had sitting around in order to make it work... Apparently a bit of basic plumbing did the trick.... Sadly, I didn't ask him in time to snap some pics of what he did otherwise that would have been useful, but I may do so the next time the bumper is off... The system has been pressure tested and the car has been driven without any issues... I couldn't really follow the more detailed explanation of what he did, because I followed the blog linked above which said "OEM fit", and all I expected was some duct trimming, cutting, and pop riveting.... if you call Reuben @ Porsche Centre Gold Coast and mention my name, I'm sure he'd be happy to assist with more info...

It's currently cold here even in Brisbane, so I expect my IATs to be under control even with a stock IC... I may have a chance to get out on the track in a few weeks time and log some data...

To my basic knowledge of turbo cars, this upgrade, much like the Europipe, are no brainers... the obvious next step is the ECU tune, which is hopefully not far away... I am hoping to work with Kevin @ UMW on a tune for the car to unlock some more potential, but I had to return my OBD2 cable to him for some kind of repairs and don't have a replacement yet....

Cheers,

drvik
Tks. Will speak with him. Seems odd he said you needed to change your hoses....and no other trimming required. I recall your car is a tip? Maybe there are different sized turbos between the tip and manual. Although that doesnt answer for no trimming being required. Hmm... will call him tomorrow and come back.
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Old 06-27-2012, 01:08 PM
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Speed 21.. Please let me know what you find out.. I'm ready to pull the trigger onn those.. Thanks..
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Old 06-28-2012, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by phillipj View Post
Speed 21.. Please let me know what you find out.. I'm ready to pull the trigger onn those.. Thanks..
OK. Had a very good chat about Vik's job and they encountered an issue with the sizing of the male ends (metal spigots) on the I/C hoses where they slot into the holes of the new GT2RS intercoolers. The problem is due to the inside diameter of the .2 intercoolers being approximately 2mm larger in diameter than the holes in the .1 stock coolers causing unacceptable slack. He said it may not feel like a lot but in their experience they felt the additional movement was certainly enough to allow the metal hose end fittings to work their way out of the spring loaded clip locks during operation.

He said due to the slight change in diameter the existing spring wire clips at a minimum would require a degree of reshaping (bending), so they could maintain adequate purchase pressure to securely clip lock the hose spigots into the slightly larger I/C holes. He said they used some other clips they had on a set of earlier GT2 coolers they had laying around which matched the slightly larger diameter holes better. So, they were more comfortable with that result rather than the bending exercise. Then, to reduce the slop they wound some felt tape around the male metal I/C hose spigots (on the ends of the I/C hoses) so when they mated up inside the I/C's they were nice and snug as they should be. He said without the tape there was too much lateral movement allowing the potential for the spigots to wobble out of the retaining wire clip locks (which retain the spigots into the I/cooler holes), ....especially under boost pressure along with movement which occurs during operation..

Anyway, thats the scoop from the official Porsche techs here. He said there was a bit of fiddling around but nothing insurmountable for those that can think around these types of issues. The felt tape they used is a Porsche spare part which is commonly used for a wide range of issues....trim squeaks etc. May pay to have some on hand by sound of it if you plan doing the job yourself .

The plastic I/C ducting still required all the trimming and cable ties....so nothing has changed on that aspect.

I'm not sure why this other issue has never been flagged by others who have done this install, but listening to Rueben, he obviously knew what he was talking about......certainly no stanger to these cars. He has been involved in all kinds of mods so i'd be personally inclined to pay attention to his advice. In general conversation he told me a few other interesting things on other mods he's done which may be of interest to the manual guys, which i may post later, time permitting..

Anyway when i get around to doing mine i'll be having all the goodies on hand. I'm going to ask if the GT2RS wire retaining clips separately as having the right diameter ones is obviously preferable to bending the existing ones. The GTRS hoses would be a perfect solution as they would have the right sized male spigot however they have a different sized diameter at the turbo end....so, no good.

Cheers.

Last edited by speed21; 06-28-2012 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:41 AM
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See, what I heard Reuben say was... the hoses don't fit so sometimes you have to send in a plumber to do a mechanics job, then I did this and that and.... zzzzzzzzz........ my brain switched off.... and knowing that Reuben is the man to solve the problem I just left it up to him knowing my baby was in good hands... I'm glad he was able to explain the finer points of the install to you. I hold him in high regard and have both my Porsches serviced by those guys...

I, too was surprised that nobody has flagged this issue before, but if you reread the above post, it states that REUBEN noticed that there was a bit of slack that HE found unacceptable... so it may be that those who have gone down this path before felt that there was a good fit and have gone with it... Reuben told me there was a very good chance I could have gotten stuck out there somewhere with a blown hose....

Now that you know how to do the install, I feel that this is a must have mod. for $1000 AUD you get 2 of the finest intercoolers around.... remember, the CTR ones are 8000 EURO!

I will be getting my car back tomorrow night so I might take it out for a fang and let you all know how it feels....

Cheers!!
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:35 PM
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Looking forward to your findings. I wonder if this mod brings anything in normal street driving @ moderate (Belgian) temps.
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:03 PM
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Thank you Speed21 and drivk. Great information.. Rueben sounds like a great tech. You're fortunate to have him around..

drvik. Can't wait to hear about your car..

Phillip
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:25 PM
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Thanks Paul and Vic for taking the time.
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by 993S View Post
Looking forward to your findings. I wonder if this mod brings anything in normal street driving @ moderate (Belgian) temps.
No worries guys. I wanted to hear the finer points as it's always good to know all the likely pitfalls before engaging any job. That way you can be prepared for it!

Thanks to Vic for piping up about the problem as prior too i'd heard it was all just clear sailing with exception to a bit of trimming on the ducts, which as most know has been photo'd well enough to show everyone exactly what's required.

It would be good to hear from earl and skand from a laypersons perspective what they found when the did their .2tt I/C install. Hopefully they may chime in and add some additional comments here?. It could well be the case that from a laypersons perspective the problem was considered not worthy of getting too concerned with. However, where an official Porsche tech is concerned they have recieved all the training and are more intune with certain things that may become an issue. Therefore, they dont cut corners on paying jobs they have to warrant. Rueben did say the mechanic that was assigned to the job downed his tools after identifying the problem feeling it was a no fit situation due to the size discrepencies in the pipe/hose fittings and clips. After Reuben became involved the problem was thought around. Like all such things it required a little out of the box thinking....hence the tape and better fitting spring clips, and the changes they made left them satisfied the job would stay out. Obviously it would be better to use the right clips if they are available as a spare part. Maybe they are, maybe not. And if not, that's where the bending comes in.

My experience fitting many aftermarket items to date has often found a thing or two that was never mentioned, and you often find yourself having to work your way around the issues, scratching your head why no one had ever mentioned anything prior too. The Europipe has been an exception along with the 764 sachs clutch kit which i have found to be in fact a precise fit on all points.

Ruben gave me his rationale why Porsche has not specified the .2tt coolers as an upgrade spare part option for the .1tt car....and it makes perfect sense knowing there are a few deficiencies which Porsche would normally accommodate for if they were to ever offer this upgrade as an officially approved Porsche product/upgrade kit for the .1tt car. Anyway, that's not to say it can't or shouldn't be done however, it's nice to know the nitty gritty on these things beforehand. Well, for me anyway. I guess it comes down to how much of a perfectionist you are and what you are prepared to accept as a satisfactory compromise. This may vary amongst the layperson. Porsche techs clearly have their standards and those standards should be taken notice of (imho).

In so far as any performance benefit that could be felt, Rueben did say that from his close observations it felt to him like the throttle response had beccome noticeably a little more crisper from what he recalled Vics car prior to the install. He did however say the drive was a couple of days apart but still felt there was a noticeable difference in his opinion....if not by a great deal.

Cheers.
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