Opinions on a TT wheel idea
#16
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One thing i noticed looking at Tireracks list of CHR's was they had a variety of rear offsets with some going the other way in (ET 60). Sheesh, you'd really want to be on your game to get the right ones....else you may wind up with a shopping trolley. The OZ's all seemed to stay around the 51 to 55 ET on the fronts as well so they too don't stray too far off the standard. CHR had 51 on front so with the stock offset of 56 that'd give 5 mm extra on the outer....so would help with having no spacers on front.
#17
Three Wheelin'
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Always nice to read peoples opinion on wheels. Usually it is a lively subject
I have been in the wheel business for the best part of 25 years. 12X19 ET45 with a 305/30ZR19 is perfect. Lowered or not.
But anyway, my Techart springs are ready in my garage.
Why do they fit? Because you can't just look at the wheel alone. The 305 tire on a 12" will stretch, instead of looking like this \ / it'll look like this / \ , so the tire will never rub but from appearance (sitting on the wheel) they will look more like the front wheel/tire combo.
Look at your 11" wheels and 305 tires. They look bloated compared to the fronts. When the 305 is used on a 12" you get that perfect fit just like the front. This pictures tells it all, this is a 12" ET45 with a 305 stock tire. No rubbing, no nothing, just perfect. How many times I haven't come across the guy with the chart claiming this or that to be a problem. You are not just mounting wheels but a package of tires and wheels. The package has to work. It does here :
I have been in the wheel business for the best part of 25 years. 12X19 ET45 with a 305/30ZR19 is perfect. Lowered or not.
But anyway, my Techart springs are ready in my garage.
Why do they fit? Because you can't just look at the wheel alone. The 305 tire on a 12" will stretch, instead of looking like this \ / it'll look like this / \ , so the tire will never rub but from appearance (sitting on the wheel) they will look more like the front wheel/tire combo.
Look at your 11" wheels and 305 tires. They look bloated compared to the fronts. When the 305 is used on a 12" you get that perfect fit just like the front. This pictures tells it all, this is a 12" ET45 with a 305 stock tire. No rubbing, no nothing, just perfect. How many times I haven't come across the guy with the chart claiming this or that to be a problem. You are not just mounting wheels but a package of tires and wheels. The package has to work. It does here :
Last edited by TT-911; 12-15-2012 at 07:44 AM.
#18
Three Wheelin'
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One thing i noticed looking at Tireracks list of CHR's was they had a variety of rear offsets with some going the other way in (ET 60). Sheesh, you'd really want to be on your game to get the right ones....else you may wind up with a shopping trolley. The OZ's all seemed to stay around the 51 to 55 ET on the fronts as well so they too don't stray too far off the standard. CHR had 51 on front so with the stock offset of 56 that'd give 5 mm extra on the outer....so would help with having no spacers on front.
For WB BSS makes a 9X19 ET53 (or 8.5X19ET51) front and 12X19ET45 rear.
Thos are perfect with the stock tires.
#19
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Ps. I also note the GT3 rs runs 8.5J x 19 ET53 with 235's and Rear 12 x 19 ET 51 with 305's....and it can't be said the wheels dont fill the gaurds on that car, even with a lowered ride height, although that said it does have 5mm spacers on the rear so if they came off, the rims would sit back in another 5mm. The GT3RS is a good benchmark to use being a lowered wide body with a perfect wheel position in the guards.
Last edited by speed21; 05-30-2012 at 04:55 AM.
#20
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No , I sold my company in '05 and retired from the rat race. Enjoying life and family. Still am a (silent) partner in a German wheel manufacturer but they work in a different (normal cars) market.
325 on 12 will create the same look as a 305 on the 11's and that is what I want to get rid off. I dislike the 'bloated tire' look. Doesn't fit a sportscar in my opinion. That is why I am so happy I discovered those BBS 12". Just perfect.
325 on 12 will create the same look as a 305 on the 11's and that is what I want to get rid off. I dislike the 'bloated tire' look. Doesn't fit a sportscar in my opinion. That is why I am so happy I discovered those BBS 12". Just perfect.
#21
#22
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[quote]
It's agreed there are differing opinions where the pulled or bloated look is concerned. The Champions seem to have struck the best of both worlds with the 11.5 rear width (IMHO).
So I take you're not pining for a set of forged then?
So I take you're not pining for a set of forged then?
#23
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The BBS CH-R are a cast wheel with flow formed barrel - hardly comparable to a 1 piece forged wheel from HRE and D2 Forged. The BBS CH-Rs are boat anchors in comparison !
We carry the CH-Rs at around 2800 - 2900 for a set in 19" 911 fitment. The D2s will be in the $5000 range. We have great alternatives and plenty of partial sponsorships spots available for Porsches guy from reputable manufacturers that need a push. PM us for more info!
We carry the CH-Rs at around 2800 - 2900 for a set in 19" 911 fitment. The D2s will be in the $5000 range. We have great alternatives and plenty of partial sponsorships spots available for Porsches guy from reputable manufacturers that need a push. PM us for more info!
Next, you are offering these BBS for 2800-2900 (dollars) and I can get them for 1600 (euro) here local, no freight, no import duties. nothing.
What would you do ??
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#24
Three Wheelin'
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Euh, not quite Paul, you know BBS was under chapter 11 in Germany and is now sold :
http://www.bbs.com/en/company/news/2012_presse_01.html
Very happy I was not a partner in BBS or I might not be driving a turbo today
http://www.bbs.com/en/company/news/2012_presse_01.html
Very happy I was not a partner in BBS or I might not be driving a turbo today
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#25
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Sorry. Not up with what happened with BBS. But good to hear your in a turbo
.
Anyway Denis, you being the wheel expert here, and mindful each car manufacturer has their own technical understanding of how their cars will behave/perform with regard to any changes to wheel offsets and the likes, what is your take on how far a wheel can be moved out (through spacers or changes in offsets) before things create handling and vibrational issues?
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
Anyway Denis, you being the wheel expert here, and mindful each car manufacturer has their own technical understanding of how their cars will behave/perform with regard to any changes to wheel offsets and the likes, what is your take on how far a wheel can be moved out (through spacers or changes in offsets) before things create handling and vibrational issues?
#26
Three Wheelin'
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[quote=speed21;9571001]
It's agreed there are differing opinions where the pulled or bloated look is concerned. The Champions seem to have struck the best of both worlds with the 11.5 rear width (IMHO).
So I take you're not pining for a set of forged then?
12 combined with 305 is used on the GT3-RS and I prefer it.
Btw, body of GT3-RS is same as turbo and stock ET is 46 (with 5mm spacer). So the CH-R are only a measly 1mm more outside. It's a non issue really.
Forged is nice if there is a (big) weight advantage. These BBS are so good that I see no reason to spent 3 times the money on forged. Also, being an old(er) stubborn wheel guy I prefer to ride with BBS. BBS and Porsche have a loooong history together.
It's agreed there are differing opinions where the pulled or bloated look is concerned. The Champions seem to have struck the best of both worlds with the 11.5 rear width (IMHO).
So I take you're not pining for a set of forged then?
Btw, body of GT3-RS is same as turbo and stock ET is 46 (with 5mm spacer). So the CH-R are only a measly 1mm more outside. It's a non issue really.
Forged is nice if there is a (big) weight advantage. These BBS are so good that I see no reason to spent 3 times the money on forged. Also, being an old(er) stubborn wheel guy I prefer to ride with BBS. BBS and Porsche have a loooong history together.
Last edited by TT-911; 05-30-2012 at 06:54 AM.
#27
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Anyway Denis, you being the wheel expert here, and mindful each car manufacturer has their own technical understanding of how their cars will behave/perform with regard to any changes to wheel offsets and the likes, what is your take on how far a wheel can be moved out (through spacers or changes in offsets) before things create handling and vibrational issues?
Do the same with some VW's and you got a bad driving car.
Usually I would try to stay within 1cm of stock ET.
Spacers is only used as a last option. I preferred not to use them in the past. Longer bolts, more risk of vibration, corroding to the hub. Braking off, I've seen it all. Also you are adding unnecessary weight were it counts. Sometimes you have to but if possible we worked with lower offset wheels.
#28
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Hey Denis those 12'' with ET45 have a very aggressive offset of 18mm extra on the outer rim position so with the stock ride height she's gonna look pretty out there. My RF67's rears, which are 11.5 wide with an ET44 are well on the limit in the gaurds with the stock ride height imo. Champion really get their offsets right. Another 6 mm may be a problem. This (may) correct itself once the car is dropped. Or, you may have rub issues.
You are riding a 11.5 ET44 with a 305, correct ?
If I am on a 12 ET45 with a 305 I will have less risk of rubbing than you.
Attached a GT3-RS with 12X19 ET51 (and 5mm stock spacer, so real ET46) on 305, weight of car on rear right wheel. Still plenty of space and the tire sits so very nice on the wheel. Picture perfect.
Now I'll keep quiet
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Last edited by TT-911; 12-15-2012 at 07:44 AM.
#29
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I am sure I am boring by now but here goes again.
You are riding a 11.5 ET44 with a 305, correct ?
If I am on a 12 ET45 with a 305 I will have less risk of rubbing than you.
Attached a GT3-RS with 12X19 ET51 (and 5mm stock spacer, so real ET46) on 305, weight of car on rear right wheel. Still plenty of space and the tire sits so very nice on the wheel. Picture perfect.
Now I'll keep quiet![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
You are riding a 11.5 ET44 with a 305, correct ?
If I am on a 12 ET45 with a 305 I will have less risk of rubbing than you.
Attached a GT3-RS with 12X19 ET51 (and 5mm stock spacer, so real ET46) on 305, weight of car on rear right wheel. Still plenty of space and the tire sits so very nice on the wheel. Picture perfect.
Now I'll keep quiet
![bigbye](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/xyxwave.gif)
i.e. The 11.5 44 vs your 12 ET45 using the linked offset calculator shows the 12 ET 45 as protruding 5mm more.
![Wink](https://rennlist.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif)
i.e. The stock GTRS 12 ET 51 vs you 12 ET45 again shows the 12 ET 45 protruding 6mm more.
So with GTRS using the 5mm spacer, it reduces the difference down, but the 12 ET 45 still protrudes 1mm more. To be exact.
So as i said before the 12 ET 45 has a very aggressive offset vs the stock tt rim 11 ET51. Not that there is anything diabolically wrong with that.
However, all of this additional protrusion becomes less significant once the car is lowered, and i would agree if lowering is the ultimate intention the 12 ET 45 will sit with the same/similar stance as the GT3RS without the need for using the 5mm wheel spacer, that is if the car is lowered to the identical height specs and set up to the stock GT3RS rear alignment specs.
Sorry to be pedantic, but the above correction was needed to retain the integrity of the very point we were debating.
And to the other point of increasing or reducing offset and/or wheel width beyond a given point off standard, I was hoping your industry knowledge may have allowed you to educate the likely result/consequences of taking things past the manufacturers recommended guidelines. Everything has limits and its knowing those limits that is often the problem when making a decision. Any info is appreciated.
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#30
Three Wheelin'
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Long post but not correct, I stand by what I said ![thumbsup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigok.gif)
Don't think in terms of wheels only and you'll get it, stretched tires sit lower and narrower on top.
For ex. 11 et40 is worse for a turbo than 12 et45 with similar tires. The load of the wheel is devided inside and out giv 6 mm diff on the outside. On the 11 et40 the load is complete and only towards the outside , so 11 mm. What do you think is better ?
![thumbsup](https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigok.gif)
Don't think in terms of wheels only and you'll get it, stretched tires sit lower and narrower on top.
For ex. 11 et40 is worse for a turbo than 12 et45 with similar tires. The load of the wheel is devided inside and out giv 6 mm diff on the outside. On the 11 et40 the load is complete and only towards the outside , so 11 mm. What do you think is better ?