Bilstein B16 Failure(s)
07-10-2010, 07:10 PM
#1
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Bilstein B16 Failure(s)
What alternative suspension systems are recommended? The stock system on my '09 Turbo wasn't nearly stiff enough. I tried Bilstein's B16 Damptronics but have been plagued by what seem to be repeated strut failures after only 20k miles. I don't track or race the car, but do enjoy occasionally driving faster than necessary while using it as a daily driver.
I had an apparent strut failure after 20k miles with the B16 system by Bilstein. The dealership determined the rattling and clunking sound was coming from my left front strut after driving with "chassis ears" placed throughout the front end of my Turbo to isolate the source. I had to pay for a new Bilstein strut plus labor to replace it and do a repeat corner balance. The failed one was returned to Suncoast, but before I've even had time to hear back from them the rattling and clunking has returned. In fairness to Bilstein I've yet to hear from them, but the dealership was told by Suncoast I would NOT be reimbursed for the cost of labor. The hassle of lost driving time, expense of diagnosis and repair, and apparent lack of positive feedback from the distributor have soured my opinion of non-Porsche components. I had no such trouble when I replaced the '04 Carerra's suspension with the Porsche sport version at 80k miles. It now has over 105k miles and is still going strong.
I plan to take this opportunity to completely revamp the Turbo's suspension---what seems to the seat of my pants to be the most distinguishing factor in driving performance. The factory and Bilstein suspensions were both too soft for my taste. (I also think the "sport" suspension button is a bit gimmicky---there isn't much difference in feel with the electrorheological damping oil "on" versus "off", whether factory or Bilstein systems are used.)
I like to occasionally drive the car hard, but I doubt I'm even getting close to 70% of the limit. The '04 Carerra's factory sport suspension wasn't too stiff. If there are any better options for the Turbo that would give me that same sense of stability and control, even if they are much much stiffer, that's what I'd like to use. I realize the Turbo may feel like a boat because it is so damned heavy, and therefore it may not be possible to attain the light and nimble feel of the Carerra factory sport setup, but I'm willing to get radical if I can attain that same or better sense of awesome handling. I've still got the factory suspension if I decide to sell it and someone doesn't like risking vertebral compression fractures.
In terms of horsepower, I wanted to install the Cargraphic stage 2 kit, but now I'm definitely leery of trying to decide these things for myself and trust the aftermarket manufacturers. I guess it is time to give Tom Charlesworth a call, if he's still working his magic here in Tulsa.
Any opinions or suggestions would be appreciated.
-Brannon
I had an apparent strut failure after 20k miles with the B16 system by Bilstein. The dealership determined the rattling and clunking sound was coming from my left front strut after driving with "chassis ears" placed throughout the front end of my Turbo to isolate the source. I had to pay for a new Bilstein strut plus labor to replace it and do a repeat corner balance. The failed one was returned to Suncoast, but before I've even had time to hear back from them the rattling and clunking has returned. In fairness to Bilstein I've yet to hear from them, but the dealership was told by Suncoast I would NOT be reimbursed for the cost of labor. The hassle of lost driving time, expense of diagnosis and repair, and apparent lack of positive feedback from the distributor have soured my opinion of non-Porsche components. I had no such trouble when I replaced the '04 Carerra's suspension with the Porsche sport version at 80k miles. It now has over 105k miles and is still going strong.
I plan to take this opportunity to completely revamp the Turbo's suspension---what seems to the seat of my pants to be the most distinguishing factor in driving performance. The factory and Bilstein suspensions were both too soft for my taste. (I also think the "sport" suspension button is a bit gimmicky---there isn't much difference in feel with the electrorheological damping oil "on" versus "off", whether factory or Bilstein systems are used.)
I like to occasionally drive the car hard, but I doubt I'm even getting close to 70% of the limit. The '04 Carerra's factory sport suspension wasn't too stiff. If there are any better options for the Turbo that would give me that same sense of stability and control, even if they are much much stiffer, that's what I'd like to use. I realize the Turbo may feel like a boat because it is so damned heavy, and therefore it may not be possible to attain the light and nimble feel of the Carerra factory sport setup, but I'm willing to get radical if I can attain that same or better sense of awesome handling. I've still got the factory suspension if I decide to sell it and someone doesn't like risking vertebral compression fractures.
In terms of horsepower, I wanted to install the Cargraphic stage 2 kit, but now I'm definitely leery of trying to decide these things for myself and trust the aftermarket manufacturers. I guess it is time to give Tom Charlesworth a call, if he's still working his magic here in Tulsa.
Any opinions or suggestions would be appreciated.
-Brannon
07-10-2010, 10:59 PM
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I would go with the gmg suspension, much better that bilsteins on the track, esp the spring/toe link/dog bone/cup control arm setup. The gmg springs are much stiffer than either bilstein or oem.
Exhaust wise, look at fvd, euoropipe, cg's can drone a bit.
Exhaust wise, look at fvd, euoropipe, cg's can drone a bit.
Last edited by TT Surgeon; 07-11-2010 at 01:38 AM.
07-11-2010, 12:47 AM
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disable PSAM
install moton or JRZ shox
that's all you need.
since you dont track, you dont need all those "fashion" pieces such as monoball control arm, ends, dog bones and toe links. and these cars unlike what you may have hear have very very little bump steer at street ride ht. so just get the shox (steve weiner at rothsport will help you, RL sponsor) and appropriate spring rate then you are done. anymore than that you are pissing money away. i know b/c i pissed away more than you can imagine.
install moton or JRZ shox
that's all you need.
since you dont track, you dont need all those "fashion" pieces such as monoball control arm, ends, dog bones and toe links. and these cars unlike what you may have hear have very very little bump steer at street ride ht. so just get the shox (steve weiner at rothsport will help you, RL sponsor) and appropriate spring rate then you are done. anymore than that you are pissing money away. i know b/c i pissed away more than you can imagine.
07-11-2010, 01:15 AM
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Think Motons or JRZ are a bit overkill for a primarily street driven turbo. KW V3's are a great option, infinitely better than Bilstein, not as 'aggressive' as the former two. PASM is lost with this as well (although, I don't know anyone that actually thinks the 'sport' mode is useful at all in any situation). Adjustable rebound and compression giving you the ability to make it 'firm' but not unforgiving.
As a side note, I had a set of Damptronics before the KW's and experienced numerous problems. Finally decided to cut my losses (both monetary and time-wise) after dealing with their crap product for 3 months. Bought the KW's and couldn't be happier. Bilstein has the WORST customer service bar none. Needless to say I will never buy any of their garbage ever again.
As a side note, I had a set of Damptronics before the KW's and experienced numerous problems. Finally decided to cut my losses (both monetary and time-wise) after dealing with their crap product for 3 months. Bought the KW's and couldn't be happier. Bilstein has the WORST customer service bar none. Needless to say I will never buy any of their garbage ever again.
07-11-2010, 03:15 PM
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Agree with Mooty, if you'll never track the car, prolly don't need the extras, but I would strongly suggest at least the gmg springs and adjustable sways and call it a day. The gmg springs are significantly stiffer than the std bilstein items.
07-12-2010, 02:00 AM
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yes KW are good. i am not familiar with their representation in usa.
with these high end stuff, you NEED customer service.
b/n jrz, moton and kw, chk out what your local shop is familiar with and go with that.
with these high end stuff, you NEED customer service.
b/n jrz, moton and kw, chk out what your local shop is familiar with and go with that.
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07-12-2010, 06:11 AM
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I have B16's and the CG544 kit - both AWESOME and zero issues in 19k miles.
The Bilsteins come with a lifetime warranty and my suspension fitter (Bilstein partner here in the UK) would recover any labor costs direct from Bilstein. So other than inconvenience it wouldn't cost me a penny to fix B16s with issues. Frankly, I have never driven anything better than my Bilstein/GMG setup when it comes to a mixture of public road and track driving.
As for the CG544 kit, I am having some timing equipment fitted this weekend for some high speed runs. You may be interested in the result when myself or Toby post them here. In the meantime here is my original thread detailing my CG544 install:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...onversion.html
The Bilsteins come with a lifetime warranty and my suspension fitter (Bilstein partner here in the UK) would recover any labor costs direct from Bilstein. So other than inconvenience it wouldn't cost me a penny to fix B16s with issues. Frankly, I have never driven anything better than my Bilstein/GMG setup when it comes to a mixture of public road and track driving.
As for the CG544 kit, I am having some timing equipment fitted this weekend for some high speed runs. You may be interested in the result when myself or Toby post them here. In the meantime here is my original thread detailing my CG544 install:
https://rennlist.com/forums/997-turb...onversion.html
