MPS

After 10 years of having a 911 (including 35k hard miles on a 996tt) I have been Porscheless for almost 4 years, with the E60 M5. I went to purchase 997tt (for a street use in addition to M5) before my 2 boys outgrow the rear 2 seats.

Test-drove a low milage 07 997tt on a very familiar ramp and experienced surprise "snap oversteer" with early exit throttle PSM on, 8/10 effort and was very, very surprised.

I drove my 996tt hard and enjoyed pushing it to the limit in particular in hard turns, dry or rain with no consequences and even at higher speeds at this particular turn - ramp. My M5 feels safer in turns at similar speed as 997tt with a throttle/lift (subjective -please!!).

While I know that GT3, 993, 997.2 C2S can be more fun, I enjoyed 996tt for is bulletproof safety on the streets. I enjoyed 996tt for no need to be cautious like I had to be with my 993 -2 in the past.

I decided to get the 997tt as a better version of 996tt but after the test drive I am holding back. I liked the car in any other way but I do not feel comfortable of being "paranoid" when pushing the car if I am not at track.

I researched many rennlist posts including" rc's opinion from rennteam re 997 turbo off throttle oversteer" and others about oversteer as well as several articles on this topic mentioned and discussed here (also problems with PSM on).

The newest issue of "Excellence" proudly mentions in a 997tt.2 review article how the 997tt.2 has overcome these handling and oversteer problems as the best improvement in a new car.

So: 1) If I have to worry about snap oversteer I may rather get the 993tt and al least have more fun (I know it is subjective);

or if I want to be safe and not worry:

1) Get a 997tt.2 and pay way more than the low mile '07 997tt - or get the 996tt again?; 2) Consider getting '07 997tt with LSD (the one I tried did not have it), does it make a difference, anyone? (searched the forum but no good answer); 3) Do a suspension change (too many options and no standardized proven setup)?

Again, purchasing the car for always only 7-8/10 driving is not OK. Also if I decide to always track the car I would get a separate car.

Anyone had a similar situation and decision problem?

Many thanks

Mad Manx

I've had 911s (all rwd/manual/coupe/n.a.) since 1983, and have covered over 250,000 miles in all year round conditions, and I've never encountered 'snap oversteer' on the road.

However, I have encountered it on wet test circuits, and in the snow/ice at the Porsche circuit at Oberstraum in the Alps. But, you do have to deliberately provoke or destabilise the car. The natural tendancy is almost always to understeer.

I would have thought the 997 Turbo would be one of the most benign supercars. Having said that no car (driver) is infalible.

Swoody

If you want to really experience snap oversteer....push an NSX around a corner! I find the handling of my 997tt to be very neutral and readable with good road feel. Never had it get away (unless it was my fault).

Land Jet

You you sure this is a car problem and not a driver problem? No offense meant.

rodjac

Don't know about the turbo but the 996 gt3 was very sensitive to alignment. Get it right and it was incredibly stable unless you suddenly lifted in a hard turn. If the alignment was off--particularly the rear toe--it was a handful.

GT

Yes snap oversteer on a stock 997.1tt happens because mainly of the extreme understeer dialled in from the factory (...) which prompts the drive to overcorrect, and then also the characteristics of the rear suspension. To make things worse the rear end is noticeably less controllable without LSD, while the very soft bushings in the control arms and toe links make it even harder to control the car when you lose traction. Porsche strategy with the turbo was probably to keep everything soft and moving around for comfort (which robs driver input and feedback..) and rectify everything with PTM, PSM, PASM.. But that works as you say up to 8/10s.
To rectify all this you need to get cup control arms for front and rear, as well as better toe links. Also a set of damptronics/sways would help.
What will happen is that you'll be able to dial in more neg camber in the front to counter the initial understeer and make the car more neutral. Then by changing these parts you would eliminate a lot of these soft bushings and thus you would have 100% better feel and control of the car at the limit.
LSD is a must in my opinion..
All of the above i tried by myself one by one and the transformation was pretty impressive. I have a few things more though (engine mounts, sway bars and Dymags).
Hope that helps..

MPS

Many thanks, this was very helpful!! But whom would you ask to do the work on east cost and not make it worse.

To answer the other question, it is not a driver problem since it did not occur with my other cars. Yes, I tried to provoke it a bit but should not occur at this relatively low effort. And I am not the only one... Numerous posts and articles devoted to this..

Land Jet

This is the first time I have heard this about the 997TT. But the reviews of the 2010 turbo have said how much the handling has been improved over previous 997TT's. You could go new or buy the earlier model and have plenty left over for suspension mods.

cannga

A little late so I'll just post a somewhat "unedited" answer here, all my humble opinions:

1. 997.1 TT *understeers*, in comparison to other 997 variants, as observed by many of us. This is why many owners. and tuners, who are "in tune" LOL increase front neg. camber and add front toe out, and have our anti-sway bar set to front soft, rear stiff at the track. I post frequently on rennteam and know of RC's review. Yes I, if only vaguely, remember my surprise at his review: He's the one AND only reviewer who felt that 997.1 TT oversteers (in comparison to 996 TT, was the context of RC's comment, I seem to recall).

2. Excellence article makes no mention of any "oversteer" correction to 997.1 Turbo. True, the 997.2's front sway bar is stiffer, which does reduce oversteer, BUT, the 997.2's rear spring is also stiffer, which increases oversteer.
The correction in 997.2 is to reduce roll stiffness, and front to back weight transfer. The same reason that so many of us switch to Bilstein for our 997.1.
Check out this thread or this: http://www.rennteam.com/forum/thread...html#p20122197

3. I am no advanced driver, but remember my tuner's (Lucent, Los Angeles) advice to me: NEVER push a strange car to its limit (get familiar with the car first), which may sound like what might be happening here on your test drive?
Lastly, won't ALL 911's, with the engine back there, snap oversteer, because that's what it's supposed to do?

Hope this helps. If you are thinking about getting 997.1 Turbo: I would say go ahead. Once you are used to it, you will see that it's an incomparable daily driver. The heart and soul is that engine and the nuclear-class power still blows my mind and brings smiles after 2 years of ownership.
The amount of understeer/oversteer could be adjusted with alignment and anti sway bar setting, easily.

RPMert

Sounds like your driving is going to be on public roads and interstates? Get the 997TT and forget about it! Unless driving in a dangerous and inconsiderate manner you'll never experience the snap oversteer. The massive HP/Tq makes this car far more fun to drive (safely or "safely") on public roads than any other NA P-car. Good luck!